Could the Axe-FX III be used for Hex processing? (Like Roland V-Guitar)

Piing

Piing

Axe-Master
Besides the Axe-Fx II, my other favorite piece of equipment is the Roland V-Guitar. I started with the old VG-8, and now I have a Roland VG-99 and a Boss GP-10. I don’t use the COSM amp-simulations (nothing can beat the Axe-FX on modelling amps), only the guitar modelling, synths, alternate tuning or hexaphonic processing (eg: polyphonic drive or polyphonic compressor).

Roland V-Guitar It is great, but since I had my first Axe-FX Standard I’ve dreamed with a V-Guitar with the excellent Fractal Audio quality. Just imagine: instead of buying and swapping Cab IR's, we would be dealing with guitar packs, pickup packs, stringed-instruments packs, synth packs… Want to play any kind of string instrument with your Strat?, Want to try how a Fender Custom Shop Texas Special pickup would sound in a Cordoba Nylon Classical guitar? Want to instantly change to alternate tunings? Independent pitch-shift for each string? Polyphonic Synth? Capture the IR of a vintage pickup like you are currently doing with the cabs?...

My question is: can the Axe-FX III process 6 of its inputs independently?

If that is possible, that would be a good start. But then we would need more instances of certain blocks. Basically, it should be able to run 6 blocks of Input, Tone-Match (the Tone-Match would be used as guitar/pickup modeler) Comp, Drive, Filter, PEQ, Pitch, Synth, and Volume/Pan.

Further development could include specific blocks for pickup and for guitar body. (If I were rich, I would send a VG-99 to Cliff... :cool:)

There are boxes that split the signal from the hex-pickup to six mono outputs. The 6 mono outputs for each individual strings could be connected to the 3 stereo inputs of the Axe-FX II, and the regular pickups to Input 1.

OT-02-BaxendaleMidi-H9oWaS7wu3syZn.3PuB3M4JeLSw5VRaY.jpg


https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/roland-vg99

Roland's HRM, or Harmonic Restructure Modelling, isn't explained in detail in any documentation I can find, but it seems that the sound from the guitar string is broken down into a number of harmonic components, and the relative levels and envelopes of these harmonics are changed to create new sounds. Using the new Freeze function, sounds can be held indefinitely, where they'd normally decay with the guitar note.

This type of harmonic restructuring doesn't (at the present, anyway) lend itself to the replication of complex real acoustic instrument sounds, but it does have much in common with analogue synthesis, and can be processed using similar filters, modulators and envelope controls. Because the harmonic structure generated by the guitar string changes according to how the string is picked, the sound responds to playing technique in a way that pitch-tracking MIDI guitar synths can't match, and there's no tracking delay. By combining the HRM waveforms with conventional effects such as pitch-shifting, delay and chorus, a wide variety of synth-like leads and pads can be created, as well as some fat synth bass sounds.
 
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I think more work than it's worth. I use a GR55 and plug it into input 4. You can feed a pretty dry output to the axe and then use the effects from that with good success. I use it a lot for alternate tunings.
 
how would you process the 6 strings of a guitar separately with the axe? give some reverb and some not? each string with a different amp? i don't understand.
 
chris said:
how would you process the 6 strings of a guitar separately with the axe? give some reverb and some not? each string with a different amp? i don't understand.
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I think this is mostly applicable to synth guitar, which the Axe-Fx isn't — mostly, anyway. But there are still some pretty cool things you could do with it.

Imagine separate voicing for the three bottom strings vs. the other three; now imagine chicken pickin' with that setup. Or independent pitch tracking for each string. Or independent envelopes for each note in arpeggiated chords. Or high-gain power chords with zero intermodulation. Distorted double-stops that actually sound like two guitars at once.

This would open up a lot of possibilities that are normally unavailable to guitarists. Whether it's feasible is a different question.
 
chris said:
how would you process the 6 strings of a guitar separately with the axe? give some reverb and some not? each string with a different amp? i don't understand.
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Some of the things that are currently possible with Roland V-Guitar by processing the 6 strings separately:

- Guitar and pickup modeling. Nylon, steel, banjo, mandolin, sitar, bass, etc (not possible with a single pickup)
- Alternate tuning – changeable on the fly
- Pedal bending or slide-tuning of individual strings with the expression pedal.
- Polyphonic distortion (the result is very different to applying distortion to a single pickup)
- Polyphonic compression (same as above)
- Micro pitch shifting to individual strings
- Panning strings with different pitch shifting (it sounds amazing)
- Polyphonic synth


Now imagine that, and more, but with Fractal Audio quality.

One amazing innovation would be the introduction of guitar body modellers and pickup modellers as IR blocks (like the existing CAB block) allowing the possibility to capture IR's of as many string instruments and pickups as you want (the Roland VG is limited to the factory models)
 
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...,,geez, maybe I gotta pull out that GR 55 from the abandoned tech closet and revisit how I can interface it with the III..I still use the Roland inferface axes with my Antares guitar auto tune (RIP) which to my ear, was a superior technology with pitch modification, but still lacking in in tone modeling when extincted., and agree that some real integration of Roland V-stuff with FAS quality could make for some interesting noises.
 
BTW. This guys are trying to do a guitar modeler using the signal from a regular pickup. They call it "Smart Tone Shaping", but it seems to be in a beta phase:

http://www.sim-one.it/
https://store.sim-one.it/electric-guitar.html?product_list_limit=30
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/guitar-profiler.1815545/

Maybe it is possible. Few years ago we used to believe that it was impossible to convert pitch to midi from regular pickups, so we also used the hex-pickup for midi conversion, but now there is the software called "Jam Origin" that can do it flawlessly. Why not V-guitar from regular pickups?
 
Piing said:
BTW. This guys are trying to do a guitar modeler using the signal from a regular pickup. They call it "Smart Tone Shaping", but it seems to be in a beta phase:

http://www.sim-one.it/
https://store.sim-one.it/electric-guitar.html?product_list_limit=30
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/guitar-profiler.1815545/

Maybe it is possible. Few years ago we used to believe that it was impossible to convert pitch to midi from regular pickups, so we also used the hex-pickup for midi conversion, but now there is the software called "Jam Origin" that can do it flawlessly. Why not V-guitar from regular pickups?
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anybody who isn't using that Midi Guitar 2 app is missing out on some real fun...........(major reason GR 55 got retired...)
www.jamorigin.com
 
i think this is just way out of the scope of the Axe-Fx as a product in general. even if it has 6 separate inputs, it's not designed to do that sort of stuff per-string, compared to the Variax or GR stuff which was designed exactly for that.

cool wish though.
 
I think you'd need 3 Axe-fx III's to handle the 6 strings. Two simultaneous rigs per Axe. I'd love to hear what this would sound like. If I had a ton of extra money, I'd totally try it.
 
Polyphonic guitar processing has many applications outside of synths/tracking.
The Axe-Fx III can process six independent inputs. The limiting factor is going to be the number of blocks: 2xAmp, 4xDrive, etc. For six amps you'd need three Axe-Fx units.
 
Piing said:
Some of the things that are currently possible with Roland V-Guitar by processing the 6 strings separately:

- Guitar and pickup modeling. Nylon, steel, banjo, mandolin, sitar, bass, etc (not possible with a single pickup)
- Alternate tuning – changeable on the fly
- Pedal bending or slide-tuning of individual strings with the expression pedal.
- Polyphonic distortion (the result is very different to applying distortion to a single pickup)
- Polyphonic compression (same as above)
- Micro pitch shifting to individual strings
- Panning strings with different pitch shifting (it sounds amazing)
- Polyphonic synth


Now imagine that, and more, but with Fractal Audio quality.

One amazing innovation would be the introduction of guitar body modellers and pickup modellers as IR blocks (like the existing CAB block) allowing the possibility to capture IR's of as many string instruments and pickups as you want (the Roland VG is limited to the factory models)
Click to expand...

These are all great features but I very much doubt if these will ever see the light of day in the Axe fx. These things don't have priority for FAS. As far as I can judge. So I would keep your guitar synth if I were you. I hope one day the Axe fx can do polyphonic processing one day though.
 
As an starting point, the only required development for the Axe-FX III would be to allow 6 instances of certain blocks like Tone-Match (the Tone-Match would be used as guitar/pickup modeler) Comp, Drive, Filter, PEQ, Pitch, Synth, and Volume/Pan
 
Admin M@ said:
Polyphonic guitar processing has many applications outside of synths/tracking.
The limiting factor is going to be the number of blocks: 2xAmp, 4xDrive, etc.
For six amps you'd need three Axe-Fx units.
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That would be really cool but it is far from required. Things like the Roland VG/GP stuff have some up front hex-only stuff but quickly resolve down to a mixed signal (which is the same point in the chain where you can mix your regular pickups in). The things that happen up front would be tone shaping and pitch. So that would be some combination of Pitch/EQ/Filter/Synth and ideally an IR block to apply tone matches.

There's ways to make do with less than 6 of everything:
  • Even one more synth block would allow you to have three note chords on adjacent strings - 1/4 to Synth1, 2/5 to Synth2, 3/6 to Synth3.
  • Two or more Simple IR blocks would go a long way - with 2 you could do separate IRs for wound and unwound strings. Three could split in pairs, etc. The IR block would not need to be the full power of the cab block though - you could forego mixing 4 cabs, air, etc.
  • Just one more pitch block would allow open E, open G, DADGAD, etc. Two more would allow you to do a 12-string (maybe apply a slight chorus to the 1st/2nd strings too). These would not need the full power of the existing pitch block - mono only, anything else could be stripped out for CPU savings.
  • Polyphonic distortion is very cool. With the existing four you could split 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 (or like above for the synth) and have one for an overall distortion later in the chain.
  • There are already 4 filters, 4 PEQs and 4 GEQs - more would be good but they could be shared between strings.
So my order of asks would be:
  1. More pitch blocks - at least one more (stripped down blocks would be perfect)
  2. More synth blocks - at least one more
  3. More IR blocks - at least one more (again, stripped down blocks would be perfect)
  4. More Filter/PEQ/GEQ blocks
  5. More mixer blocks would be helpful with the increase in other blocks
  6. More distortions
 
WITELITE said:
I think more work than it's worth. I use a GR55 and plug it into input 4. You can feed a pretty dry output to the axe and then use the effects from that with good success. I use it a lot for alternate tunings.
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I may need to pick your brain. I just bought my 3r GR 55 over the years. I sold off that gear to buy a Axe 2 now I own a Axe 3 and the GR55 just came yesterday and can't wait to have them working together.
 
You need 6 amp blocks for true hex, so 3 Axe II's or Axe III's should do it!

If you sub-mix your hex pup outs to say high strings and low strings or whatever, then one Axe II or Axe III.

In any case it would be a powerful setup!
 
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