Controling Compression levels via foot pedal?

Danny Danzi

Danny Danzi

Power User
Cliff, beta tester or someone that may know:

I was just curious, how come we can't assign a control pedal to the level of a compressor? I seem to preserve my tone while lowering this knob over any other gain control. As weird as that may sound. I'll explain in case I've lost you.

There are sounds where I like to use my expression pedal to lower gain. When I do this using the methods we currently have available for expression control, my tone alters in a way that is not just less/more gain. The tone characteristics change. I know the answer there "they're supposed to Danny!" However, I feel the timbre changes just a bit too much to my ears compared to the way I will explain below.

When I do this just dialing out the compression level manually, the tone does not alter and all that happens is less/more gain like I want to happen. The tone characteristics don't change. If they do, they are the least noticeable this way and my ears are not picking them up.

So I was just curios as to why we don't have "level" assignment options for our compressors? And...is there a possibility to have control over the level via expression pedal in the future? We have control over just about every other level of our effects.....I almost thought this was an over-sight. If not, I'm just curious as to why only our compression "level" knobs are not assignable if you can tell me? Thanks in advance.
 
Assign your Exp Pedal to CC# 11 - OUT1 - will be a "Volume Pedal" to the signal going out - won't change the tone at all. Just quieter. Is that what you mean? You could also attach a pedal to the "Mix" parameter of the compressor.
 
bwanagary said:
Assign your Exp Pedal to CC# 11 - OUT1 - will be a "Volume Pedal" to the signal going out - won't change the tone at all. Just quieter. Is that what you mean? You could also attach a pedal to the "Mix" parameter of the compressor.
Click to expand...

Thanks, not the same thing unfortunately. I use the compressor for a little bump in gain. It's good for leads as it just gives me more of a smooth sustain. The down side is, I have to use two of these in a patch. One for rhythm for the gentle bump, one for lead for more sustain. They also aren't X/Y capable, so I need to use two.

When I want VERY little gain, turning the levels on these down gives me just what I want. It's even better than turning down amp gain, trim or even a distortion pedal. My tone doesn't change at all. For example, I get some really cool pinch harms that have that starved plate type sound. I lose them as soon as I drop the gain using any other way. When I drop the level of my compressor, the tone stays the same, I keep my pinch harms and the tone is unaltered. All the other ways of lowering the gain alter the tone. It's not super drastic, but it's enough to where I notice it and would like to preserve the tone. I just found it a bit strange that we don't have control over the actual "level" in any of our compressors.

See what may throw you off is...I'm not using the comp to really compress. It's there to push the tone a little harder...so when I drop the level, it's literally lowering the gain in a good way where the other methods we have....are a bit too destructive to the tone. So when I mention "level" I don't mean volume level....the way I'm using the compressor (first in line) the level control in it is giving me drive/sustain and helps give me my tone. :) Thank you for your response.
 
I always liked your use of the Comp block Danny, I often incorporate it into my patches. I agree, it would be nice for comp level to be assignable.
 
AnthonyZ said:
I always liked your use of the Comp block Danny, I often incorporate it into my patches. I agree, it would be nice for comp level to be assignable.
Click to expand...

Thanks Anthony. Yeah I'm still trying to understand why the comp level isn't assignable.

Anyone in the Fractal camp know?
 
+1

If you can muster up the ability to figure out the discrete MIDI sysex string for the comp parameter you want, you might be able to program that string (including parameter value) to be spit out via IA or preset change with the MFC101. I wish I knew for sure, but I don't own the MFC. Just throwing it out there, though. If you have a computer program like Bome's MIDI Translator, you can identify the sysex string...I think.
 
Danny Danzi said:
Cliff, beta tester or someone that may know:

I was just curious, how come we can't assign a control pedal to the level of a compressor? I seem to preserve my tone while lowering this knob over any other gain control. As weird as that may sound. I'll explain in case I've lost you.

There are sounds where I like to use my expression pedal to lower gain. When I do this using the methods we currently have available for expression control, my tone alters in a way that is not just less/more gain. The tone characteristics change. I know the answer there "they're supposed to Danny!" However, I feel the timbre changes just a bit too much to my ears compared to the way I will explain below.

When I do this just dialing out the compression level manually, the tone does not alter and all that happens is less/more gain like I want to happen. The tone characteristics don't change. If they do, they are the least noticeable this way and my ears are not picking them up.

So I was just curios as to why we don't have "level" assignment options for our compressors? And...is there a possibility to have control over the level via expression pedal in the future? We have control over just about every other level of our effects.....I almost thought this was an over-sight. If not, I'm just curious as to why only our compression "level" knobs are not assignable if you can tell me? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the Level knob in the Compressor? Or the Threshold or Ratio knobs? I can easily expose a modifier for level. Take about 30 seconds.
 
notalemming said:
Can that be done for the mix knob as well?
Click to expand...

Yes. In theory any knob can be exposed to modification. In reality some knobs present issues because there's a lot of computations that are involved and it would chew up CPU cycles every time you moved the expression pedal which could lead to audio glitches.
 
I use a volume block after the compressor and before the amp to "control the volume from the compressor to the amp", then You can assign a control pedal to the volume or level of the volume block to "act" as You are controlling the level of the compressor. Have You tried that, would that work for You, or does that alter Your tone to much?
 
Danny Danzi said:
Thanks, not the same thing unfortunately. I use the compressor for a little bump in gain. It's good for leads as it just gives me more of a smooth sustain. The down side is, I have to use two of these in a patch. One for rhythm for the gentle bump, one for lead for more sustain. They also aren't X/Y capable, so I need to use two.

When I want VERY little gain, turning the levels on these down gives me just what I want. It's even better than turning down amp gain, trim or even a distortion pedal. My tone doesn't change at all. For example, I get some really cool pinch harms that have that starved plate type sound. I lose them as soon as I drop the gain using any other way. When I drop the level of my compressor, the tone stays the same, I keep my pinch harms and the tone is unaltered. All the other ways of lowering the gain alter the tone. It's not super drastic, but it's enough to where I notice it and would like to preserve the tone. I just found it a bit strange that we don't have control over the actual "level" in any of our compressors.

See what may throw you off is...I'm not using the comp to really compress. It's there to push the tone a little harder...so when I drop the level, it's literally lowering the gain in a good way where the other methods we have....are a bit too destructive to the tone. So when I mention "level" I don't mean volume level....the way I'm using the compressor (first in line) the level control in it is giving me drive/sustain and helps give me my tone. :) Thank you for your response.
Click to expand...

This is something I've been wanting to do, but have to pick just one method because of no X/Y for Mark 2. Or two compressor blocks. Modifier for level would be awesome so I can change it with scene modifiers!

What I want to do with compression block is to get my lead tone to push with a little level boost. That's after the drive block, so it gives me a little smoother lead sound. Now on rhythm sound I don't want it to add any more gain, especially when I want my clean sound to sound clean.

But what the problem with my current compressor settings is that I get my clean sound compressed the way I want, but unfortunately on lead sounds the gain tends to lower a little. Now if I add a little level boost to the compressor, my lead sounds are awesome but my clean sounds are overdriven

If there's a way to fix this with the current compressor settings, feel free to help. In real world I'm almost sure you can't have these both with just one compression pedal, but in Axe FX world: if there's a way to do it, yes please! :)
 
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FractalAudio said:
Do you mean the Level knob in the Compressor? Or the Threshold or Ratio knobs? I can easily expose a modifier for level. Take about 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

Cliff you're a God. (but you already knew that) :p

Yes, the actual level knob in the compressor. I'll try to quickly set up my scenario because I know you can't sit here and read one of my novels. LOL!

I have to use two compressors because:

1. We have no X/Y. Would love to be able to use 2 different settings within one comp.

2. I have no control over the compressor like say one of our distortion pedals. When I lower the level on a distortion pedal, it changes the actual sound of my tone. When I lower the level on the compressor, it literally keeps my tone and lowers the gain the way I want. I use the compressor for a little more sustain. So having the ability to raise/lower the compressor level knob via expression pedal would really help maintaining my tone.

Any chance of X/Y capability in our comps as well as comp level modification? I'll give you my puppy? He's bad ass....gets the paper, pisses the wife off so she leaves for the day leaving us to play with our AxeFx and totally chills to rock/metal. :)

Hahaha, thanks for all you do for us...even if what I'm asking for here isn't possible. :)

-Danny
 
Have you tried two compressors in parallel into a mixer and then pan between them? That might work until the modifier is exposed.
 
you have two choices..

1 - assign a modifier to the amp's input-trim so the compressor settings are untouched and you're simply lowering the signal level that enters the amp block.
This would have the same effect as lowering the level of the compressor.

2 - place something else after the compressor that does have a modifier assignable level control, like a vol, filter, peq, geq block and make them do it instead.
I personally prefer this method because it is far more flexible. It enables you have have a different vol block active on a per scene basis. The result of this is that you're not stuck with a single modifier min/mx and curve [which is what you would be if you did this in the amp].
So for example.. scene 1 using vol1 could drop the level just a little and scene 2 using vol2 could drop it much more..
now you effectively have scene specific modifiers.. vastly more flexible..
 
fractalz said:
Have you tried two compressors in parallel into a mixer and then pan between them? That might work until the modifier is exposed.
Click to expand...

two issues with this solution:
1 - cross fading two fx can cause a ramp / dip in level mid-way through the throw of the XP. I'm not saying it absolutely will in this case, but if it does, it's very difficult / time consuming to get right.

2 - compressors chew up a lot of cpu. Clarky's rule of thumb for this sort of thing is….
do not use two of anything unless there is absolutely no other way
so I will always look for other ways to make a single block do more either via modifiers in the block itself, using X-Y switching [if applicable and behaves well enough for the block in question], or by surrounding that fx block with other blocks that have lower cpu costs [vol / filter / peq / geq]
 
Danny Danzi said:
Cliff you're a God. (but you already knew that) :p

Yes, the actual level knob in the compressor. I'll try to quickly set up my scenario because I know you can't sit here and read one of my novels. LOL!

I have to use two compressors because:

1. We have no X/Y. Would love to be able to use 2 different settings within one comp.

2. I have no control over the compressor like say one of our distortion pedals. When I lower the level on a distortion pedal, it changes the actual sound of my tone. When I lower the level on the compressor, it literally keeps my tone and lowers the gain the way I want. I use the compressor for a little more sustain. So having the ability to raise/lower the compressor level knob via expression pedal would really help maintaining my tone.

Any chance of X/Y capability in our comps as well as comp level modification? I'll give you my puppy? He's bad ass....gets the paper, pisses the wife off so she leaves for the day leaving us to play with our AxeFx and totally chills to rock/metal. :)

Hahaha, thanks for all you do for us...even if what I'm asking for here isn't possible. :)

-Danny
Click to expand...

I've added modifier connection to the Level parameter. X/Y is not possible on the Mark I/II. It is already available on the XL and XL+.
 
FractalAudio said:
I've added modifier connection to the Level parameter. X/Y is not possible on the Mark I/II. It is already available on the XL and XL+.
Click to expand...

Awesome thanks Cliff! Been meaning to get an XL anyway...so now's my chance.

Clarky: Though the input trim sounds like the fix (as would other methods of lowering gain/levels, you'd have to try what I'm talking about to hear for yourself.) Something about lowering the gains/trims with the compressor in line alters the tone characteristics. Like I had mentioned, I use the compressor to give me more sustain. Though it's probably compressing a little, it's giving me a nice smooth sustain added in conjunction with the amp and the distortion pedal. When I lower any other gain, something weird happens to the sound. When I lower the compressor level, nothing happens to the tone. So for me, when I lower gain in a tone, I would love to just lower the compressor level...which now I'll be able to thanks to Cliff.

The two compressor deal....the pedal comps are less cpu so running two of those isn't so bad. I prefer the studio comps for the best sound...but two of those is too much for the particular setup I'm using. The thing that I'm married to is how the compressors effect my tone in a good way, which is why they are my weapon of choice for controlling my actual gain. They really do make a difference for the better when they are in line and allow me to sustain notes in a drop C tuning that last forever. What's even better is...my tone never trips over itself with too much gain because these comps police that artifact thank God. And...for as much gain as I have going on, even without the gate, the noise I do get is a joke because it's really not an issue. I still can't believe the little bit of noise considering how massive my drive sound is. It should be squealing like mad with hiss. Take out the compressor and do "other things" to achieve similar results and I find I always fall way short.

Then again, with all the options this thing has, I've not tried every possible scenario. My whole thing is/was, I sort of got thrown into the AxeFx with one week to come up with a good tone. LOL! We all know how hard that can be. But I managed to come up with something that is every bit as good or better than my last rig. So in my spare time, I'm always trying to better that as well as save on cpu whenever possible. :) The two comps is the only double in my configuration at this time though. Thanks for the response and the ideas. Some good stuff for me to try anyway.
 
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