Cliff, Get rid of the older firmware modeling options to free up space!!

[Toopy14]

Not Fractal's problem, really, that you live in markets that are absurdly inflated. Market logic dictates your resale values should be high as well.

Never said it was Fractal's problem directly, but indirectly it does hurt exports. Nothing they can control obviously.

It's okay though, the Canadian price should come down significantly after November 8th!

 

[Melten]

Never said it was Fractal's problem directly, but indirectly it does hurt exports. Nothing they can control obviously.

It's okay though, the Canadian price should come down significantly after November 8th!

Yeah I'm not trying to blame anyone, just describing elements to the situation that might not be obvious elsewhere. I paid 2600$ I think for my Axe FX 2 when it first came out. I have no idea why it's so much more expensive now. I guess a big part is the change in the AUD/USD conversion rate.

 

[Melten]

One more thing before I leave this be (what Cliff decides is fine, just want to express my thoughts while this conversation is still running). I'd be thrilled to spend money on a new Axe-FX 3 if/when that happens, to replace this Axe FX 2. I'm less excited about changing to an XL+ for changes that don't affect my current use case, except for the fact that the code doesn't fit. It would certainly be a shame for this to be the reason for this hardware to become 'obsolete'. Then again, maybe there is no real life left in the memory remaining even without the extra modelling version options, making any discussion essentially moot.

 

[iaresee]

Never said it was Fractal's problem directly, but indirectly it does hurt exports. Nothing they can control obviously.

It's okay though, the Canadian price should come down significantly after November 8th!

I've got my passport all primed, ready to run for the border...

 

[Toopy14]

I've got my passport all primed, ready to run for the border...

Aren't you from Canada? You're more than welcome...bring a tent...I live on 2 acres. We can turn the power scaling off on my AC30 and knock some crows out of the trees!!

 

[iaresee]

Aren't you from Canada?

Yup.

You're more than welcome...bring a tent...I live on 2 acres. We can turn the power scaling off on my AC30 and knock some crows out of the trees!!

Solid plan!

 

[Pwrmac7600]

Thank you for your reply.

I did, in fact, read this entire discussion and took everything I have read up to this point from each persons point of view. My assessment of your statement stands as it reads the same way within the context of the discussion in its entirety and within the specific conversation to which your post was made. Yours isn't the only post on this topic in general that, as written, that has indicated a sense of entitlement. Your post, that I quoted in part, however, made assertions that have no part in this discussion. You stated that it's "kinda your right to expect additional features for your XL+ than" (from readers perspective- I) "get for (my) Mk I/II unit". Read this any way you wish - intended or not, expressing the right to expect something not owed to you is the very essence of entitlement (the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment). In addition the statement (in bold print as follows) that you chose "to pay more money for a higher end unit so I could get additional features such as more preset slots, more user ir slots, and at this point, continued firmware updates because my unit can handle the task" is a statement without basis. You chose to upgrade from a Mk II series to an XL+ for reasons known to consumers at that time of your purchase. "...and at this point,..." simply tacks on a new expectation (one only days old now and an expectation of free stuff at that) to a list of features listed for a product you purchased at least 9 months ago, an expectation that you should receive more free stuff than Mk I/II owners because you just now found out that you have space for that free stuff, whereas the person(s) to whom you responded in this thread just found out that they have run out of space for free stuff.

The entire assertion concerns free stuff to which you are not entitled. It refers, in fact, to free ongoing firmware development offered to you from FAS by their choice. Though your reply to my post (as quoted here) states that you feel entitled to 'nothing more than what you purchased' the assertions you made in your prior post stated otherwise in a very thorough manner. You are correct that Mk I/II owners should feel the same. Every FAS product for which ongoing updates are being provided for free should feel entitled to nothing more than what they purchased.

"You own an old unit, don't expect, which some MK I/II users are, for owners of a unit with enough memory to move forward, to have things removed from their units just to "make it work" on your old units." This statement, in direct reply to my post, tells me to not expect something that I clearly stated is something for which I have no expectation, I did express an interest in having the feature in question removed if doing so would accommodate any significant additional firmware updates for the Mk I/II series. I also qualified my expressed interest in saying that I would feel no disappointment if this upcoming firmware were to be the last release for the Mk I/II, that I'm just as excited about my AxeFX II as I was when it arrived from FAS, and that I'm very grateful to have had access to so much ongoing development of the AxeFX II to date (see my posts in the 'Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 4.01 Public Beta', where the discussion on this topic began). This is about as far from the expectation you're telling me not to have as one can get. Expressing an interest and stating expectation share no common ground. If you were indeed addressing those who have expressed an expectation that FAS remove a specified feature so that they may receive more free stuff then you once again picked a very poor way to make a point. Your statement, as quoted in bold print above, intended or not, addressed me specifically. "You own an old unit, don't expect..." throws me in with your intended audience. I have said nothing whatsoever that would lead someone to assume that I have any expectation for anything from FAS.

Written communication, especially in online discussions where anonymity is a factor, is often difficult as all of the additional expression when communication by voice (inflection, tone of voice) or in person (facial expressions, eye contact, body language) are missing entirely. Add to this the nature of written communication in a forum or social media context (thoughts and feelings expressed in short messages, the disconnect that often accompanies anonymity, the additional time necessary to ensure words convey ones thoughts/feelings/intentions accurately) and it's easy for a discussion like this one to quickly go off the rails. These factors may explain why your last two posts read the way that they do, or perhaps not. Those reading your posts (anyone's posts) can only glean from them whatever is expressed as expressed. This is what is happening with your last post and with your quoted reply above.

I have no problem with you. I merely took exception to what was conveyed in your post quoted above and your prior post in this discussion, and I have explained why in detail so as not to be misunderstood. Again, I hope you do not take offense as none was intended.

Zero expectation for anything "free'. Never did I in anyway state that I expected anything for "free".
Would gladly be willing to pay for updates the same way I had and did pay for model packs on my line 6 products. you are just making an assumption that I expect these things for free.

But again the entire reason I chose to spend more money on my unit was because I wanted to ensure I had the most up to date version of the Axe FX the ensure I got the maximum longevity out of the product. and this was not based on expectation this was based on a mixture of experience in dealing with digital modeling units in general, in that it never works out buying an older version to save money because you inevitable are buying a unit with a shorter life span. and because prior to buying my XL I did alot of reading on the forums and, from comments made by FAS themselves was able to determine that the XL+ was a safe bet because it was stated that the unit had plenty of memory and room for future upgrades. So much so that the Axe FX II wasn't even being thought about yet.
So I went into my purchase decision knowing that it was a pretty safe bet that I would get much more life out of my unit if I bought an XL as opposed to sticking with my MKII which according to the specs and FAS themselves had much less memory than the XL+.

As far as having a right to expectation, yes I fully expected to have features additional features and abilities in my XL than in a MK unit, because it has additional features and benefits, as advertised.... but NEVER did i state that I expected ANYThING for free. I have paid, and continue to pay boatloads of money for gear, and have absolutely no qualms about doing so as long as I am getting a quality product, and I can afford it.

 

[5150]

It's possible -- maybe even likely -- that removing the option to run older modeling will do nothing at all for extending the life for Mark I/II.

All this arguing and pontificating may be nothing more than wasted time and bits. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Cliff is just sitting back and laughing at us chuckleheads.

 

[Pwrmac7600]

To be fair, I don't remember Cliff ever saying that more memory would result in longer firmware support for the new units, but rather advertised it as "you'll have more space for presets". So technically, it's pretty questionable whether or not this is "what you purchased". Correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

At the end of the day, we were also told that we wouldn't need to upgrade (unless we wanted things like FAS Link and more presets) in order to stay current until the AxeFX III came out. I feel a little bit more ripped off having to spend $2500+ to stay up to date for a little while longer than most people feel about having to receive a couple fewer FREE updates.

I mean, spending another $2500+ to stay up to date for like 20-30% longer is kind of ridiculous to me. I don't ever recall Fractal advertising the new unit as "You'll get firmware updates for tones WAY longer", so saying "Well I spent my money doing it, why shouldn't you?" is a moot point. If it was advertised that way, it certainly wasn't done very well, or else I would have made the upgrade myself.

I mean considering you can sell your MK unit and recoup a bunch of cash you wouldn't actually be spending an additional 2500.00 you would probably only be spending an additional 500.00.

 

[DLC86]

One more thing before I leave this be (what Cliff decides is fine, just want to express my thoughts while this conversation is still running). I'd be thrilled to spend money on a new Axe-FX 3 if/when that happens, to replace this Axe FX 2. I'm less excited about changing to an XL+ for changes that don't affect my current use case, except for the fact that the code doesn't fit. It would certainly be a shame for this to be the reason for this hardware to become 'obsolete'. Then again, maybe there is no real life left in the memory remaining even without the extra modelling version options, making any discussion essentially moot.

The discussion is moot because almost everybody is discussing just one option to free up space while someone else has already provided other (probably most effective and hassle-free) solutions. Please read this post including Morphosis quote: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...-4-01-public-beta.119924/page-33#post-1428237

 

[Pwrmac7600]

"You own an old unit, don't expect, which some MK I/II users are, for owners of a unit with enough memory to move forward, to have things removed from their units just to "make it work" on your old units." This statement, in direct reply to my post, tells me to not expect something that I clearly stated is something for which I have no expectation, I did express an interest in having the feature in question removed if doing so would accommodate any significant additional firmware updates for the Mk I/II series. I also qualified my expressed interest in saying that I would feel no disappointment if this upcoming firmware were to be the last release for the Mk I/II, that I'm just as excited about my AxeFX II as I was when it arrived from FAS, and that I'm very grateful to have had access to so much ongoing development of the AxeFX II to date (see my posts in the 'Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 4.01 Public Beta', where the discussion on this topic began). This is about as far from the expectation you're telling me not to have as one can get. Expressing an interest and stating expectation share no common ground. If you were indeed addressing those who have expressed an expectation that FAS remove a specified feature so that they may receive more free stuff then you once again picked a very poor way to make a point. Your statement, as quoted in bold print above, intended or not, addressed me specifically. "You own an old unit, don't expect..." throws me in with your intended audience. I have said nothing whatsoever that would lead someone to assume that I have any expectation for anything from FAS.

Yeah I apologize for that, because that was not in any way directed at you. It was a poorly executed thought. it was directed at the MKI/II owners whom have been very clear about the fact that they expect FAS to pretty much do whatever they have to do in order for them to be able to continue to receive updates. But was in no way directed at you, that was my bad for not making that clear in my post.

 

[Pwrmac7600]

Out of over 320 people, almost 95% want the other modeling removed to make room. Seems pretty overwhelming to me. When that feature was first released, like the first few updates I used it, but soon became obviously for the average user it is pointless. Only those who can't figure out how to fix a preset with the new firmware needed it which is VERY FEW, most people realize over time how to use and configure the Axe II, very few just don't have the sense and need a crutch, but at this point it's obvious that it's not needed for the masses, adds VERY little value, compared to allowing development of the Axe Mk1/2 to continue which adds much more value to the customer base.

curious to see how many of them are MKI/II users. Just saying.

 

[Melten]

The discussion is moot because almost everybody is discussing just one option to free up space while someone else has already provided other (probably most effective and hassle-free) solutions. Please read this post including Morphosis quote: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...-4-01-public-beta.119924/page-33#post-1428237

Fair point. Indeed if those IRs are taking up code space that seems a logical thing to remove. Personally I almost never use the factory IRs anyway. Though the new "sampler" IRs are much better than the ones that have been there all along.

 

[ConnorGilks]

Not Fractal's problem, really, that you live in markets that are absurdly inflated. Market logic dictates your resale values should be high as well.

It is when it impacts their sales numbers.

Now, doesn't mean it's not worth the sacrifice, but we're not on the inside and can't make that call.

 

[ConnorGilks]

I mean considering you can sell your MK unit and recoup a bunch of cash you wouldn't actually be spending an additional 2500.00 you would probably only be spending an additional 500.00.

I addressed why it's still an issue a couple posts back.

 

[iaresee]

It is when it impacts their sales numbers.

They are powerless to control the exchange rate and the resale market rates -- even in their own country the resale market is out of their control.

 

[ConnorGilks]

They are powerless to control the exchange rate and the resale market rates -- even in their own country the resale market is out of their control.

I don't know where you thought I was saying they had control over it.

 

[Deaj]

Yeah I apologize for that, because that was not in any way directed at you. It was a poorly executed thought. it was directed at the MKI/II owners whom have been very clear about the fact that they expect FAS to pretty much do whatever they have to do in order for them to be able to continue to receive updates. But was in no way directed at you, that was my bad for not making that clear in my post.

No sweat.

The conversations here and on The Gear Page over the announcement of the AxeFX II's release were out of control. Many then new AxeFX Standard / Ultra owners felt somehow cheated because they were not notified of the impending release of the AxeFX II at the time of purchase. It didn't seem to make sense to to many new AxeFX Std/Ultra owners that they purchased the then current product and that the FAS announcement could not be planned around every purchase made (days? weeks? months?) prior to their strategically chosen announcement date. The truth of the matter was that everyone who bought an AxeFX Standard or Ultra were purchasing a mature and stable platform that would serve them well for as long as they chose to keep it. Firmware v11.0 of the Std/Ultra platform was a huge step forward. Cliff built Firmware v11.0 around the coding he'd been working on for the AxeFX II and the results were rather stunning by comparison to just the prior firmware. It kicked a$$!!! This meant that the temptation for a working musician with many well sculpted presets to upgrade to a new firmware revision was removed altogether. It would never have to be a consideration.

The appreciation for Cliff's effort to pull the Standard and Ultra forward as much as possible before the AxeFX II was drowned out by those who felt that FAS should have announced the new AxeFX II before they made their purchase. Many complained that the announcement immediately killed the resale value of their newly acquired hardware. The next phase was a suggestion that FAS maybe offer an upgrade exchange where their returned Standard or Ultra's original purchase price would be applied to the AxeFX II's purchase price. Some picked up where the suggestion left off all but demanding that FAS put some sort of upgrade exchange program in place. Those who suggested and those who pressured for such a program hadn't really done the math, or they felt that FAS owed them for not letting them know about the as of yet unannounced AxeFX II, regardless of the cost to FAS. That whole thing was weird. By comparison this discussion has been tame thankfully.

 

[iaresee]

I don't know where you thought I was saying they had control over it.

You said the fitness of the resale market in your country affects their new unit sales rate.

It doesn't and it's not something they have much control over, so it's not something they (or any business really) takes as an input when making decisions.

 

[pauly]

I feel your pain - Worth every bloody penny though eh

Pauly

Yeah I'm not trying to blame anyone, just describing elements to the situation that might not be obvious elsewhere. I paid 2600$ I think for my Axe FX 2 when it first came out. I have no idea why it's so much more expensive now. I guess a big part is the change in the AUD/USD conversion rate.