Cliff, Get rid of the older firmware modeling options to free up space!!

Older firmware modeling option

  • Remove it. I can live without it.

    Votes: 398 94.3%
  • Leave it. I have to have it.

    Votes: 24 5.7%

  • Total voters
    422
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Edited: Ok so I decided to remove the entire post I had just written up because I realize that in the context of a thread this big, I can't expect that you read the conversation that quote was taken from in whole. Things are going to be read completely out of context of an entire back and forth conversation, and only be taken for that one specific comment, which they were.

I will just leave it at this; I feel entitled to nothing more than what I purchased. And MK I/II owners should feel the same. You own an old unit, don't expect, which some MK I/II users are, for owners of a unit with enough memory to move forward, to have things removed from their units just to "make it work" on your old units. Removal of features for advancement purposes, to make room for something new, is one thing, but removal just to make an old unit keep up is just ludicrous.

There are probably more Axe FX users than not, who never venture off the main amp tab, but does that mean we should remove all the advanced parameters? hell that would probably make alot of room. If you had a poll that truly reflected the FULL Axe FX user base I have no doubt that the amount of users who only use the main tab would greatly out number the amount of users who use the advanced tabs. But it would still make no sense to remove those tabs and features because that's a step backward.

Thank you for your reply.

I did, in fact, read this entire discussion and took everything I have read up to this point from each persons point of view. My assessment of your statement stands as it reads the same way within the context of the discussion in its entirety and within the specific conversation to which your post was made. Yours isn't the only post on this topic in general that, as written, has indicated a sense of entitlement. Your post, that I quoted in part, however, made assertions that have no place in this discussion. You stated that it's "kinda your right to expect additional features for your XL+ than" (from readers perspective- I) "get for (my) Mk I/II unit". Read this any way you wish - intended or not, expressing the right to expect something not owed to you is the very essence of entitlement (the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment). In addition the statement (in bold print as follows) that you chose "to pay more money for a higher end unit so I could get additional features such as more preset slots, more user ir slots, and at this point, continued firmware updates because my unit can handle the task" is a statement without basis. You chose to upgrade from a Mk II series to an XL+ for reasons known to consumers at that time of your purchase. "...and at this point,..." simply tacks on a new expectation (one only days old now and an expectation of free stuff at that) to a list of features listed for a product you purchased at least 9 months ago, an expectation that you should receive more free stuff than Mk I/II owners because you just now found out that you have space for that free stuff, whereas the person(s) to whom you responded in this thread just found out that they have run out of space for free stuff.

The entire assertion concerns free stuff to which you are not entitled. It refers, in fact, to free ongoing firmware development offered to you from FAS by their choice. Though your reply to my post (as quoted here) states that you feel entitled to 'nothing more than what you purchased' the assertions you made in your prior post stated otherwise in a very thorough manner. You are correct that Mk I/II owners should feel the same. Every FAS product for which ongoing updates are being provided for free should feel entitled to nothing more than what they purchased.

"You own an old unit, don't expect, which some MK I/II users are, for owners of a unit with enough memory to move forward, to have things removed from their units just to "make it work" on your old units." This statement, in direct reply to my post, tells me to not expect something that I clearly stated is something for which I have no expectation, I did express an interest in having the feature in question removed if doing so would accommodate any significant additional firmware updates for the Mk I/II series. I also qualified my expressed interest in saying that I would feel no disappointment if this upcoming firmware were to be the last release for the Mk I/II, that I'm just as excited about my AxeFX II as I was when it arrived from FAS, and that I'm very grateful to have had access to so much ongoing development of the AxeFX II to date (see my first reply as well as my posts in the 'Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 4.01 Public Beta', where the discussion on this topic began). This is about as far from the expectation you're telling me not to have as one can get. Expressing an interest and stating expectation share no common ground. If you were indeed addressing those who have expressed an expectation that FAS remove a specified feature so that they may receive more free stuff then you once again picked a very poor way to make a point. Your statement, as quoted in bold print above, intended or not, addressed me specifically. "You own an old unit, don't expect..." throws me in with your intended audience. I have said nothing whatsoever that would lead someone to assume that I have any expectation for anything from FAS.

Written communication, especially in online discussions where anonymity is a factor, is often difficult as all of the additional expression present when communication by voice (inflection, tone of voice) or in person (inflection, tone of voice, facial expressions, eye contact, body language) are missing entirely. Add to this the nature of written communication in a forum or social media context (thoughts and feelings expressed in short messages, the disconnect that often accompanies anonymity, the additional time necessary to ensure words convey ones thoughts/feelings/intentions accurately) and it's easy for a discussion like this one to quickly go off the rails. These factors may explain why your last two posts read the way that they do, or perhaps not. Those reading your posts (anyone's posts) can only glean from them whatever is expressed, as expressed. This is what is happening with your last post and with your quoted reply above.

I have no problem with you. I merely took exception to what was conveyed in your post quoted above and your prior post in this discussion, and I have explained why in detail so as not to be misunderstood. Again, I hope you do not take offense as none was intended.
 
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To those calling for acceptance of reality. This is an internet forum: Stages #2 and #3 can last for years!! You should be thankful many have already moved to 'Bargaining' so quickly! :D
 
I will just leave it at this; I feel entitled to nothing more than what I purchased. And MK I/II owners should feel the same. You own an old unit, don't expect, which some MK I/II users are, for owners of a unit with enough memory to move forward, to have things removed from their units just to "make it work" on your old units. Removal of features for advancement purposes, to make room for something new, is one thing, but removal just to make an old unit keep up is just ludicrous.

To be fair, I don't remember Cliff ever saying that more memory would result in longer firmware support for the new units, but rather advertised it as "you'll have more space for presets". So technically, it's pretty questionable whether or not this is "what you purchased". Correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

At the end of the day, we were also told that we wouldn't need to upgrade (unless we wanted things like FAS Link and more presets) in order to stay current until the AxeFX III came out. I feel a little bit more ripped off having to spend $2500+ to stay up to date for a little while longer than most people feel about having to receive a couple fewer FREE updates.

I mean, spending another $2500+ to stay up to date for like 20-30% longer is kind of ridiculous to me. I don't ever recall Fractal advertising the new unit as "You'll get firmware updates for tones WAY longer", so saying "Well I spent my money doing it, why shouldn't you?" is a moot point. If it was advertised that way, it certainly wasn't done very well, or else I would have made the upgrade myself.
 
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I think we can argue, we can discuss, but mockings and furious answers are out of place.

I don´t think we are demanding anything (in both sides of the question), and people are asking questions, not begging, so please: let´s try not to make this a war, we´re all in the same side.

Thanks and best regards. ;)
 
As an XL user, I'd gladly give up the FW switch option if it stopped all this moaning. But in a few months, when MKII's are back up against the limits, what will you be demanding has to go then? Where does it end?

Like any business, Fractal must focus on the models that they currently sell and make them the best that they can. It simply does not make any commercial sense to restrict current models just to keep users of legacy products happy.

My XL is not a current model and it too will be put in the same position at some point. No big deal, it's called progress.
 
As an XL user, I'd gladly give up the FW switch option if it stopped all this moaning. But in a few months, when MKII's are back up against the limits, what will you be demanding has to go then? Where does it end?

Like any business, Fractal must focus on the models that they currently sell and make them the best that they can. It simply does not make any commercial sense to restrict current models just to keep users of legacy products happy.

My XL is not a current model and it too will be put in the same position at some point. No big deal, it's called progress.
Duplicate firmware's make no sense when we are up against the wall from a memory standpoint..... Beyond that it is what it is and it logically comes to an end and I think it would be hard for anyone to argue the point. Having duplicate firmware's is an artificial constraint on the hardware. One that had some practical value but at this point seems to have run it's course.
 
I feel a little bit more ripped off having to spend $2500+ to stay up to date for a little while longer than most people feel about having to receive a couple fewer FREE updates.

I mean, spending another $2500+ to stay up to date for like 20-30% longer is kind of ridiculous to me.
$2500 - whatever you can get for your existing unit

...so not really $2500 at all.
 
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At the end of the day, we were also told that we wouldn't need to upgrade (unless we wanted things like FAS Link and more presets) in order to stay current until the AxeFX III came out.

Anybody got a link to this statement from Cliff? I don't remember ever seeing that "stays current until Axe III comes out" bit anywhere.
 
Out of over 320 people, almost 95% want the other modeling removed to make room. Seems pretty overwhelming to me. When that feature was first released, like the first few updates I used it, but soon became obviously for the average user it is pointless. Only those who can't figure out how to fix a preset with the new firmware needed it which is VERY FEW, most people realize over time how to use and configure the Axe II, very few just don't have the sense and need a crutch, but at this point it's obvious that it's not needed for the masses, adds VERY little value, compared to allowing development of the Axe Mk1/2 to continue which adds much more value to the customer base.
 
Anybody got a link to this statement from Cliff? I don't remember ever seeing that "stays current until Axe III comes out" bit anywhere.

Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong, but when the new units were being announced I don't remember anything specifically saying that more memory would result in longer firmware support (firmware updates that actually impacted tone). If he explicitly said that, then I understand his point more. That being said, still doesn't change my vote. If Cliff chooses not to support the older units for longer that's his call, not ours.

$2500 - whatever you can get for your existing unit

...so not really $2500 at all.

True, but then I'm $5000 in the hole until I can sell my unit, or I have to go without one for a while which isn't an option for my work.
 
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$2500 - whatever you can get for your existing unit

...so not really $2500 at all.
This isn't 100% a response to your comment here.

In Australia the XL+ is $3950 or so ( http://shop.independentmusic.com.au/axe-fx-ii-xl/ ). I can maybe sell my Mk1 for $2200? I can't see many for sale here, so I'm not sure. So I'd need to spend 1750$ or so to keep the firmware updates coming. I don't need the hardware changes in the XL or XL+, otherwise I would have gotten one already. The processing power is all I care about as regards the hardware, more or less.
 
what makes it hard for Fractal is Cliff has been continuing to develop the product while it has been out. He isn't just fixing bugs and tweaking like most companies.

.Many firmware's down the road and resources that were plentiful early on are now dried up . the box is a completely different machine that when it was designed and built. maybe getting rid of modelling options gets you 1 or 2 more firmware but what then? if the older product is holding back development of the current model then support is stopped . what about when quantum 5 is too big to load onto the mk2 ? should he just not release it ?

we want innovation and we want new features but those come at a resource cost . and it seems its time for mk1/2 owner to pay the piper for all those advances that no one paid a cent for . like ultra users before you still own a great musical tool . it is just a completed product now
 
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This isn't 100% a response to your comment here.

In Australia the XL+ is $3950 or so ( http://shop.independentmusic.com.au/axe-fx-ii-xl/ ). I can maybe sell my Mk1 for $2200? I can't see many for sale here, so I'm not sure. So I'd need to spend 1750$ or so to keep the firmware updates coming. I don't need the hardware changes in the XL or XL+, otherwise I would have gotten one already. The processing power is all I care about as regards the hardware, more or less.

Pretty much the same scenario here in Canada. A new XL+ would cost $3,500+ CDN. :(
 
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This isn't 100% a response to your comment here.

In Australia the XL+ is $3950 or so ( http://shop.independentmusic.com.au/axe-fx-ii-xl/ ). I can maybe sell my Mk1 for $2200? I can't see many for sale here, so I'm not sure. So I'd need to spend 1750$ or so to keep the firmware updates coming. I don't need the hardware changes in the XL or XL+, otherwise I would have gotten one already. The processing power is all I care about as regards the hardware, more or less.
Pretty much the same scenario here in Canada. An new XL+ would cost $3,500+ CDN. :(
Not Fractal's problem, really, that you live in markets that are absurdly inflated. Market logic dictates your resale values should be high as well.
 
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