Channel-Toggle witch external Switch

A

aalrh

Inspired
I want to use an external switch (latch) to switch the input channel from A to B.
With the stand-in-switch function the result is not satisfactory. Here I have to kick 2 times that the toggle command is executed. I have tried all configuration possibilities in the I/O menu. With "Virtual Toggle" I even have to kick 4 times until the channel is toggled.

Furthermore I connected Input 1 with the pedal in the Midi menu under Channel. Here it finally switches correctly. Between A and D, but that would fit. However, it does not keep the switching state during scene change.

If I configure the switch for the bypass switch of any effect, it works properly. Unfortunately, I can't set a modifier on the channel change or the output control in the input block.

Can I set in FM3 what kind of switch/button the device should accept?
Is there another way to make the channel change with an external switch. (I use the Boss FS7 - please no tips like: buy a button!) It must be possible to program this somehow?

With this programming I want to compensate the difference in volume between singlecoil and humbucker. Of course I can also use a volume block with bypass function. But that costs CPU power and as I said, with FAS everything is possible. So I believe that it works somehow.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
 
I tried messing with this for a bit today, and it doesn't seem to work as I would expect?

My Boss FS-5L 'Latching' switch takes two presses to make the switch action occur. I have it set to 'Follow the Hardware'. If set to 'Virtual Toggle', it take four presses.

A 'Momentary' switch set to 'Follow the Hardware' acts as a 'Virtual Toggle'. And takes two presses if set to 'Virtual Toggle'. Why? Doesn't seem to be a way to get it to act as a 'Momentary' Stand-In switch.

It's the same for the Axe-Fx III/FC6?

You have to set your FS7 to 'Momentary', but the FM3 to 'Follow the Hardware' to get the 'Toggle' action you need. Which means the LED light won't stay lit, and indicate which channel is active.
 
Another good option is to use a Control Switch attached to the 'Level' parameter in the Input 1 block. Which can still be setup as a Stand-In switch on your FS7.

Just set the Min and Max values for the two Humbucker/Single-Coil levels. It will persist through Scene changes. You can also save it in your Block Library and then quickly add it to any preset.

Edit... Oops.. That parameter isn't exposed to modifiers, like in the Axe-Fx III, yet
 
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Moke said:
I tried messing with this for a bit today, and it doesn't seem to work as I would expect?

My Boss FS-5L 'Latching' switch takes two presses to make the switch action occur. I have it set to 'Follow the Hardware'. If set to 'Virtual Toggle', it take four presses.

A 'Momentary' switch set to 'Follow the Hardware' acts as a 'Virtual Toggle'. And takes two presses if set to 'Virtual Toggle'. Why? Doesn't seem to be a way to get it to act as a 'Momentary' Stand-In switch.

It's the same for the Axe-Fx III/FC6?

You have to set your FS7 to 'Momentary', but the FM3 to 'Follow the Hardware' to get the 'Toggle' action you need. Which means the LED light won't stay lit, and indicate which channel is active.
Click to expand...
You can't fudge a momentary switch when your physical switch is a toggle. A toggle switch only changes state once per press. There's no signal when you take your foot off the switch.
 
Rex said:
You can't fudge a momentary switch when your physical switch is a toggle. A toggle switch only changes state once per press. There's no signal when you take your foot off the switch.
Click to expand...
Actually you should be able to with a 'Virtual Toggle' setting. That's what it's for, isn't it?

The problem I was having is getting a Latching switch to just act as a Latching switch. And a Momentary switch to act as a Momentary switch. As Stand-In switches anyway.
 
Moke said:
Actually you should be able to with a 'Virtual Toggle' setting. That's what it's for, isn't it?

The problem I was having is getting a Latching switch to just act as a Latching switch. And a Momentary switch to act as a Momentary switch. As Stand-In switches anyway.
Click to expand...
"Virtual Toggle" changes a momentary switch into a virtual toggle switch. It's physically impossible to do the reverse of that.

"Follow Hardware" works when you want a switch to behave like what it is.
 
Rex said:
"Virtual Toggle" changes a momentary switch into a virtual toggle switch. It's physically impossible to do the reverse of that.

"Follow Hardware" works when you want a switch to behave like what it is.
Click to expand...
I understand that that. But it isn't working like that for me?
 
Moke said:
I understand that that. But it isn't working like that for me?
Click to expand...
Okay, I get it now. Took a minute for my brain to catch up.

The issue is that you don't get to choose momentary/latching behavior for directly-assigned footswitches. So there's no momentary/latching behavior to transfer over to a Stand-In switch.

Control Switches let you allow that behavior choice, but directly-assigned footswitches don't.
 
It is correct that when I switch FS7 to Momentary, the command is executed immediately. Unfortunately the control lamp on FS7 does not burn, which shows me the status.
Furthermore the second switch is also on Momentary. So I cannot switch the pitch block on and off. Only if I put my foot on the switch. But not moving for 5 minutes in a rock band is like beer in front of your face and your mouth is glued. ;)
 
Can you set switch A to Momentary and switch B to Latching? Or is that only switchable globally?
 
Rex said:
Okay, I get it now. Took a minute for my brain to catch up.

The issue is that you don't get to choose momentary/latching behavior for directly-assigned footswitches. So there's no momentary/latching behavior to transfer over to a Stand-In switch.

Control Switches let you allow that behavior choice, but directly-assigned footswitches don't.
Click to expand...
Yep, but you can setup external switches to 'Follow the Hardware'. But they don't seem to??

I haven't needed to use this, so I never fully checked it out. With the FM3, it would come in handy for a couple of things. I will try to spend some more time with it and see if I'm just doing something wrong.
 
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Moke said:
Yep, but you can setup external switches to 'Follow the Hardware'. But they don't seem to??

I haven't needed to use this, so I never fully checked it out. With the FM3, it would come in handy for a couple of things. I will try to spend some more time with it and see if I'm just doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
Follow hardware always worked for me.
 
Rex said:
Follow hardware always worked for me.
Click to expand...
Using an FM3 or FC switch works as programmed. But when using an external switch as a 'Stand-In', it doesn't seem right?

Something simple like turning a block 'On' and 'Off'....
  • A physical 'Latching' switch set to 'Follow Hardware' takes 2 presses to cause an action.
  • A physical 'Latching' switch set to 'Virtual Toggle' takes 4 presses to cause an action.
  • A physical 'Momentary' switch set to 'Follow Hardware' acts as a 'Latching' switch. (not a 'Momentary' switch?)
  • A physical 'Momentary' switch set to 'Virtual Toggle' takes 2 presses to cause an action.
 
Moke said:
Using an FM3 or FC switch works as programmed. But when using an external switch as a 'Stand-In', it doesn't seem right?

Something simple like turning a block 'On' and 'Off'....
  • A physical 'Latching' switch set to 'Follow Hardware' takes 2 presses to cause an action.
  • A physical 'Latching' switch set to 'Virtual Toggle' takes 4 presses to cause an action.
  • A physical 'Momentary' switch set to 'Follow Hardware' acts as a 'Latching' switch. (not a 'Momentary' switch?)
  • A physical 'Momentary' switch set to 'Virtual Toggle' takes 2 presses to cause an action.
Click to expand...
Those are all normal behaviors.

There are two places where you can address momentary-vs-latching states: in the switch setup (Latching/Follow Hardware), and in the FC setup itself. The issue is that only Control Switches allow that second momentary-vs-latching option. If you tie your stand-in switch to a Control Switch, you should be good to go.
 
Moke said:
Using an FM3 or FC switch works as programmed. But when using an external switch as a 'Stand-In', it doesn't seem right?

Something simple like turning a block 'On' and 'Off'....
  • A physical 'Latching' switch set to 'Follow Hardware' takes 2 presses to cause an action.
  • A physical 'Latching' switch set to 'Virtual Toggle' takes 4 presses to cause an action.
  • A physical 'Momentary' switch set to 'Follow Hardware' acts as a 'Latching' switch. (not a 'Momentary' switch?)
  • A physical 'Momentary' switch set to 'Virtual Toggle' takes 2 presses to cause an action.
Click to expand...
a Momentary external switch isn't expected to behave "momentarily" as far as the effect is concerned. it's not supposed to engage when you press down and bypass when you let go. that's not the intention.

the intention is to press and let go to engage, then press and let go again to bypass. that's how the built-in switches work.

what you've described is the expected behavior of those switches. Latching switches are not a good choice for this type of application.

Momentary switches are preferred for programming because you get a message for press and release, vs a latching switch which only sends one signal per press/release. this way it can be used with both Tap and Hold functions, since the switch would tell the unit when you let go, necessarily for Hold operations.

again, Momentary-type external switches are not meant to behave "momentarily" for the effect on/off. the words are similar (Momentary-type switch vs momentary operation), but it's not the same application. other MIDI controllers recommend using a Momentary-Type switch as well, for the same reason.
 
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Rex said:
Those are all normal behaviors.

There are two places where you can address momentary-vs-latching states: in the switch setup (Latching/Follow Hardware), and in the FC setup itself. The issue is that only Control Switches allow that second momentary-vs-latching option. If you tie your stand-in switch to a Control Switch, you should be good to go.
Click to expand...
Okay... But Channel switching cannot be done with a modifier.

The 'Pedal' inputs can be set to 'Momentary' or 'Latching', but cannot be used as a 'Stand-In' switch. Only the 'Switch' inputs can.

Control Switches allow for 'Momentary' switching. The definitions of 'Momentary' and 'Latching' should be consistent.

So with 'Stand-In' switches, a 'Momentary' switch can not act as a 'Momentary' switch. It can only act as a 'Latching' switch when set to 'Follow Hardware'???:confused:

I thought that the 'Virtual Toggle' option was added for just this reason. To turn a 'Momentary' switch into a (Latching) 'Virtual Toggle' switch that stays in sync, as it switches at every change (open or closed).

What possible use case would the 'Virtual Toggle' setting be used for, when using a 'Stand-In' switch?

I'm confused....
 
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Moke said:
Control Switches allow for 'Momentary' switching. The definitions of 'Momentary' and 'Latching' should be consistent.
Click to expand...
the physical switch is called Momentary or Latching by the industry.

a Control Switch can have the option to press to engage, release to bypass. what other term should be used for that behavior?

here's the explanation i found regarding Follow Hardware and Virtual Toggle:

"SWITCH BEHAVIOR - The "Switch Behavior" setting determines how an FC external switch operates a connected device. A switch with the default setting of "Follow Hardware" behaves exactly as you might expect: a latching switch latches, and a momentary switch is momentary. If you want a momentary switch to behave like a latching/toggle switch instead, use the "Virtual Toggle" option. Now, every time you tap the switch, its state on the Axe-Fx or FM3 will flip from ON to OFF, or OFF to ON. Note that if you accidentally apply the Virtual Toggle setting to a physical latching switch, you'll need to tap the switch twice for it to toggle. Find this option for every FC external switch on the “Remote” page of the “FC Controllers” menu under SETUP."

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fc-features-notes-for-firmware-5-07.150309/

i haven't found a use for Virtual Toggle, but I only use switches as Stand-Ins.

maybe the Switch Behavior doesn't really apply to Stand-In switches, since they mimic a built-in switch. as i mentioned before, a Momentary-type switch must be used so it can tell if you're tapping or holding, as it sends a signal when the switch is released.

i haven't tried an external switch with the I/O MIDI Menu entries in a long time. maybe the Switch Behavior works as described with those specifically. but for Stand-Ins, it doesn't apply.

this may mostly be semantics.
 
chris said:
the physical switch is called Momentary or Latching by the industry.

a Control Switch can have the option to press to engage, release to bypass. what other term should be used for that behavior?

here's the explanation i found regarding Follow Hardware and Virtual Toggle:

"SWITCH BEHAVIOR - The "Switch Behavior" setting determines how an FC external switch operates a connected device. A switch with the default setting of "Follow Hardware" behaves exactly as you might expect: a latching switch latches, and a momentary switch is momentary. If you want a momentary switch to behave like a latching/toggle switch instead, use the "Virtual Toggle" option. Now, every time you tap the switch, its state on the Axe-Fx or FM3 will flip from ON to OFF, or OFF to ON. Note that if you accidentally apply the Virtual Toggle setting to a physical latching switch, you'll need to tap the switch twice for it to toggle. Find this option for every FC external switch on the “Remote” page of the “FC Controllers” menu under SETUP."

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fc-features-notes-for-firmware-5-07.150309/

i haven't found a use for Virtual Toggle, but I only use switches as Stand-Ins.

maybe the Switch Behavior doesn't really apply to Stand-In switches, since they mimic a built-in switch. as i mentioned before, a Momentary-type switch must be used so it can tell if you're tapping or holding, as it sends a signal when the switch is released.

i haven't tried an external switch with the I/O MIDI Menu entries in a long time. maybe the Switch Behavior works as described with those specifically. but for Stand-Ins, it doesn't apply.

this may mostly be semantics.
Click to expand...
"SWITCH BEHAVIOR - The "Switch Behavior" setting determines how an FC external switch operates a connected device. A switch with the default setting of "Follow Hardware" behaves exactly as you might expect: a latching switch latches, and a momentary switch is momentary. If you want a momentary switch to behave like a latching/toggle switch instead, use the "Virtual Toggle" option. Now, every time you tap the switch, its state on the Axe-Fx or FM3 will flip from ON to OFF, or OFF to ON. Note that if you accidentally apply the Virtual Toggle setting to a physical latching switch, you'll need to tap the switch twice for it to toggle. Find this option for every FC external switch on the “Remote” page of the “FC Controllers” menu under SETUP."

Not trying to be difficult and appreciate everybody's time... But that is what I am trying to convey... this is NOT what is happening? Can someone try it for themself to confirm?

What I described in Post #15 is what's happening. Something is not right?
 
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