Channel-Toggle witch external Switch

[Rex]

Control Switches allow for 'Momentary' switching. The definitions of 'Momentary' and 'Latching' should be consistent.

So with 'Stand-In' switches, a 'Momentary' switch can not act as a 'Momentary' switch. It can only act as a 'Latching' switch when set to 'Follow Hardware'???

I thought that the 'Virtual Toggle' option was added for just this reason. To turn a 'Momentary' switch into a (Latching) 'Virtual Toggle' switch that stays in sync, as it switches at every change (open or closed).

What possible use case would the 'Virtual Toggle' setting be used for, when using a 'Stand-In' switch?

I'm confused....

The confusion arises from the fact that there's two layers of stuff going on here.

The first layer is how the switch will behave. The FM3 generates an internal control signal based on what the pedal does. "Follow Hardware" means that the internal signal follows the hardware. When the footswitch turns on, so does the internal control signal. When the footswitch turns off, the internal control signal turns off. "Virtual Toggle" turns a momentary switch into a toggle switch. When the footswitch turns on, so does the internal control signal. When the footswitch turns off, the internal control signal doesn't change. But when the footswitch turns on again, the internal signal turns off. See the pattern? Two stomps of the footswitch causes one on/off toggle of the internal control signal.

The second layer is all about what the box does with that internal control signal. Think about bypassing a Delay block with just the FM3's built-in footswitch. That built-in switch is momentary, but when bypassing an effect block, it behaves as if it were latching. One stomp engages the effect, and the next stomp turns it off. Even though the actual footswitch is momentary.

In that second layer, only Control Switches allow that behavior to be momentary. It makes sense in its own way, but it's not completely intuitive.

 

[chris]

"SWITCH BEHAVIOR - The "Switch Behavior" setting determines how an FC external switch operates a connected device. A switch with the default setting of "Follow Hardware" behaves exactly as you might expect: a latching switch latches, and a momentary switch is momentary. If you want a momentary switch to behave like a latching/toggle switch instead, use the "Virtual Toggle" option. Now, every time you tap the switch, its state on the Axe-Fx or FM3 will flip from ON to OFF, or OFF to ON. Note that if you accidentally apply the Virtual Toggle setting to a physical latching switch, you'll need to tap the switch twice for it to toggle. Find this option for every FC external switch on the “Remote” page of the “FC Controllers” menu under SETUP."

Not trying to be difficult and appreciate everybody's time... But that is what I am trying to convey... this is NOT what is happening? Can someone try it for themself to confirm?

What I described in Post #15 is what's happening. Something is not right?

i'm not near the gear, but does the Switch Behavior work as described for switches assigned directly to items in the Setup > MIDI list?

for Stand-Ins, it makes sense to me, as that's how built-in FC/FM3 switches work - they're "Momentary-Style" and can be set to a range of behaviors.

 

[Moke]

The confusion arises from the fact that there's two layers of stuff going on here.

The first layer is how the switch will behave. The FM3 generates an internal control signal based on what the pedal does. "Follow Hardware" means that the internal signal follows the hardware. When the footswitch turns on, so does the internal control signal. When the footswitch turns off, the internal control signal turns off. "Virtual Toggle" turns a momentary switch into a toggle switch. When the footswitch turns on, so does the internal control signal. When the footswitch turns off, the internal control signal doesn't change. But when the footswitch turns on again, the internal signal turns off. See the pattern? Two stomps of the footswitch causes one on/off toggle of the internal control signal.

The second layer is all about what the box does with that internal control signal. Think about bypassing a Delay block with just the FM3's built-in footswitch. That built-in switch is momentary, but when bypassing an effect block, it behaves as if it were latching. One stomp engages the effect, and the next stomp turns it off. Even though the actual footswitch is momentary.

In that second layer, only Control Switches allow that behavior to be momentary. It makes sense in its own way, but it's not completely intuitive.

Maybe a 'Momentary' or 'Latching' option for most FC functions is what I'm looking for? Press and hold the switch for channel B, release to go back to channel A? Press and hold the switch for Scene 2, release to go back to Scene 1? etc....

It just seems limiting to not be able to setup an external 'Momentary' switch to give a 'Momentary' action on things where a momentary action is needed and also physically possible.

Currently... An external 'Momentary' switch, set to 'Follow Hardware', already acts as a (Latching) Toggle. Which is useful in most cases. What is the 'Virtual Toggle' setting used for?

 

[Rex]

Maybe a 'Momentary' or 'Latching' option for most FC functions is what I'm looking for? Press and hold the switch for channel B, release to go back to channel A? Press and hold the switch for Scene 2, release to go back to Scene 1? etc....

This. It’s a worthy wish.

 

[Moke]

i'm not near the gear, but does the Switch Behavior work as described for switches assigned directly to items in the Setup > MIDI list?

This scenario works as described in the manual. A Momentary switch set to Follow hardware (momentarily) turns on the effect while the switch is held. And turns off when the switch is released. (or the opposite depending on the Min and Max values)

Set to 'Virtual Toggle', it toggles the effect on and off.

Not happening this way for 'Stand-In' switching.

 

[chris]

This scenario works as described in the manual. A Momentary switch set to Follow hardware (momentarily) turns on the effect while the switch is held. And turns off when the switch is released. (or the opposite depending on the Min and Max values)

Set to 'Virtual Toggle', it toggles the effect on and off.

Not happening this way for 'Stand-In' switching.

Ok good to confirm. I think that’s how it works for Stand-Ins as a momentary switch is necessary to give “release” data.

the external is "standing in" for a switch that already has a specific behavior.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I want to use an external switch (latch) to switch the input channel from A to B.
With the stand-in-switch function the result is not satisfactory. Here I have to kick 2 times that the toggle command is executed. I have tried all configuration possibilities in the I/O menu. With "Virtual Toggle" I even have to kick 4 times until the channel is toggled.

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The switch you are using needs to be momentary, otherwise there is no way to get momentary action out of it. The software can only drop every second switch state change (open --> closed or closed --> open), not add them, and it needs the two transitions to know when you have started and stopped stepping on the button in order to do a 'momentary' action.

Adding "Virtual Toggle" just divides the quantity of state changes by 2, which makes a physically momentary switch produce a latching response. Adding it to an already latching switch makes it divide the quantity of state changes by 2, so the 2 clicks becomes 4. Possibly a good practical joke to pull on a fellow Fractal user to swap their switch from momentary to latching and sneak the Virtual Toggle setting on, but no actual practical application I can think of.

If the Boss switch can be set to momentary, your life will be easier. Otherwise, you need to get a momentary switch to replace it.