Cable vs Wireless bizarreness

guitarjim

guitarjim

Experienced
Sitting in with a band today. For the past couple of months, I've been playing at home and at practices using a cable between the guitar and the FM9. Preparing for the gig tonight, I plugged in my Audio Technica wireless and every single patch is overdriven, even my ultra clean patches.

I had to turn the Input Gain all the way down to around .15 to get rid of it, which is less than half of where it was. I'm guessing this is going to have some other affects on the tone, right?

Is there something else I should be looking at?
 
Turn down the Input 1 Gain? I had the opposite problem and had to turn it up when I used wireless.
 
guitarjim said:
Sitting in with a band today. For the past couple of months, I've been playing at home and at practices using a cable between the guitar and the FM9. Preparing for the gig tonight, I plugged in my Audio Technica wireless and every single patch is overdriven, even my ultra clean patches.

I had to turn the Input Gain all the way down to around .15 to get rid of it, which is less than half of where it was. I'm guessing this is going to have some other affects on the tone, right?

Is there something else I should be looking at?
Click to expand...
Reduce the output on your wireless. I'm assuming it may have a setting and you're using a higher level of output than a cable would produce. You can also reduce the input sensitivity on the Axe....but I'd rather fix it at the source (your wireless), because the same issue may occur if you plug into other devices (using your wireless).
 
BBN said:
Reduce the output on your wireless. I'm assuming it may have a setting and you're using a higher level of output than a cable would produce. You can also reduce the input sensitivity on the Axe....but I'd rather fix it at the source (your wireless), because the same issue may occur if you plug into other devices (using your wireless).
Click to expand...
^^^^ THIS ^^^^
It's basic "gain staging".. turning down the FM9 input level is a band-aid.
Return it to it's prior level and reduce the output level from the wireless unit.
Some "tinkering" may be required to ensure proper gain levels between devices.
 
s0c9 said:
^^^^ THIS ^^^^
It's basic "gain staging".. turning down the FM9 input level is a band-aid.
Return it to it's prior level and reduce the output level from the wireless unit.
Some "tinkering" may be required to ensure proper gain levels between devices.
Click to expand...
Tinkering for sure. Lowering the output of the wireless affected some presets more than others.

Thanks.
 
guitarjim said:
Tinkering for sure. Lowering the output of the wireless affected some presets more than others.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
LOL - I was trying to think of a better word, but "adjustments" or "fix every preset" sounded a little daunting.
IME - one should set up for 100% wired or 100% wireless. One and done.
I haven't used a cable since the year dot! :) Which is why I don't use cheap, dongle wireless. But I don't use Shure Axient either!
 
BBN said:
What AT wireless unit are you using?
Click to expand...
Audio Technica 2000 series. I've had it for ages, works wonderfully. Didn't run into this issue before because I've always been 100% wireless with it and never suspected there would be this big of an issue going back and forth. Serves me right for not testing it out before the day of a gig. Frantic afternoon getting everything to sound acceptable.
 
dpeterson said:
What I've done with every wireless I've owned, is plug in your cable, play... it's your normal sound. Plug in the wireless, and make it sound like the cord level wise.
Click to expand...
Yup, this is what I'd do with that AT2000 wireless.

I remember my old Senny systems used to have multiple output level settings...so I'm guessing that AT system does too.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Try to get the wireless output level to match your wired level. Things should be pretty similar then, except for any tone changes imparted by the wireless itself.
Click to expand...
That's what I would have expected, but not the case at all. Had to increase the gain levels on the edge of breakup presets and the cleans all sounded flat. The heavier presets seem fine. Pretty shocking how much of difference it made.

I essentially put on a clean preset and lowered the output until it got clean again. You would think that would be in the general ballpark of where the cable levels were, but it still had a dramatic effect.

I'll have to go back in when I have more time and really fine tune everything, but I got it close enough for tonight. Thanks.
 
Could always be an issue with the cable you are using to plug in and design your preset on the FM9. Do you get the same results comparing your wireless and that particular cable without the FM9 in the signal chain (per @Dave Merrill's output matching post)? This test might help you home in on where the issue is, e.g. cable, wireless settings, FM9 gain-staging, input/output settings, or preset design. Btw, do you get the same results with a different guitar?
 
Other than malfunctioning cables jacks etc, the only other dimension i can think of is the output impedance of the wireless vs your guitar. That should affect plugging into an amp too. Have you compared going straight into an amp you know well with going into it via wireless?

There's got to be a reason.
 
My bass player has an audio technica and switched to a L6 G50 and it was night and day difference in tone. As was stated earlier, it's not only a gain issue but also an eq issue. An eq 1st thing in your chain could be dialed in to make your wireless sound closer to the wired tone.
 
Is it just a knob for the output or is there fine digital control over the level like on some Shure units? I know my Shure wireless manual specified a particular dB level for instrument output that equaled wired output.
 
playmusic said:
Could always be an issue with the cable you are using to plug in and design your preset on the FM9. Do you get the same results comparing your wireless and that particular cable without the FM9 in the signal chain (per @Dave Merrill's output matching post)? This test might help you home in on where the issue is, e.g. cable, wireless settings, FM9 gain-staging, input/output settings, or preset design. Btw, do you get the same results with a different guitar?
Click to expand...
Same results with two different guitars of the same make and model. I don't think it's a cable issue because I use different cables between here and the practice studio, shuttling the FM9 between the two locations. Your test idea seems worthwhile.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
Is it just a knob for the output or is there fine digital control over the level like on some Shure units? I know my Shure wireless manual specified a particular dB level for instrument output that equaled wired output.
Click to expand...
Just a knob. No numbers on the dial and no digital readout.
 
guitarjim said:
Sitting in with a band today. For the past couple of months, I've been playing at home and at practices using a cable between the guitar and the FM9. Preparing for the gig tonight, I plugged in my Audio Technica wireless and every single patch is overdriven, even my ultra clean patches.

I had to turn the Input Gain all the way down to around .15 to get rid of it, which is less than half of where it was. I'm guessing this is going to have some other affects on the tone, right?

Is there something else I should be looking at?
Click to expand...

Probably not the issue but it occurred to me that you mentioned that your presets were "overdriven" when using the wireless. This does not necessarily imply that the input signal was higher, potentially just more distorted. Turning down the Input gain on the FM9 may have helped address the symptom, but as others have mentioned, not the root cause. It just essentially changed the way the blocks downstream were responding. Have you checked the battery for your wireless, or if you have an active guitar, the battery there. I have definitely had a problem with distorted sounds when batteries start to fail. Btw, the same degraded signal thing can happen when a guitar cable does not get plugged in all the way.

Let us know how your comparison test between cable and wireless direct to your amp goes. I might try juicing the gain (as opposed to volume) a bit without driving the amp into distortion to try to emulate the impact a hotter preamp setting (on the amp) has on the signal from your wireless.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom