brittle highs

yek said:
Totally disagreeing with these suggestions.

My advice would be "fixing" the issue at preset level, with global EQ neutral. Then, if necessary, use the Global EQ to finetune your overall tone when gigging / rehearsing.

The reason that I disagree is that when you take down frequencies at global level on forehand, you're starting off on the wrong foot when editing presets. If the preset's too dark, you'll bump Treble/Presence but in fact you're compensating for the Global EQ settings.
Also, the Global EQ affects all tones, so your clean tones, synth tones, simulated acoustic presets etc. will be "crippled".

Now there's not a lot to fix probably. For example, create a simple preset consisting only of an Amp block with Friedman BE, and a Cab block set to #103. Increase Treble and Presence in the Amp block to 5 or 6, depending on the guitar. That's all. At this point you should have a great beefy 'rock" tone. Not raspy, not shrill, and not too dark either. If not, there's something wrong with your configuration or your connections.

And as mentioned by Scott and others, if you create tones using headphones or low level at home, the result will always be too shrill at gigging volume. Dial in your tones at gig volume and then fight the urge to adjust them (increase bass/treble) when you're at home.
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I know I know. It's not textbook. I agree. It just seems to work for me for whatever reason. And when I do this, I just find that I have a more accurate starting point. So I guess what I'm saying is that these eq adjustments get me to what I consider a "neutral" starting point so I am much more accurate when I mess with amp tone knobs or preset level eq. I just feel like the treble with global eq at 0 is not the correct starting point and overhypes highs from the get go. To each his own.
 
From your description something seems off.

If you roll off the guitar volume control does it help?

Backing off the guitar tone control?

I often find if the highs are a bit off for whatever reason a simple backing down of the guitar controls can do wonders. You might find a magic spot when you roll back where it just sits where you want it.

I also agree just place a Marshall Plexi amp block and then the TV mix cab. Even with all defaults that sounds great to me. Very thick tones with PAF style humbuckers especially. If you are using AE be sure to initialize the blocks to make sure you are using all the default settings.
 
Are you increasing the room level in the cab block when using headphones? If not, DO IT NOW. It's absolutely a must when using headphones. Gives more depth, tames the highs, and gives more of an "amp in the room" sound.

Also, check out the frequency response graph for these headphones at the below link:

Learning Center - Build a Headphone Graph | HeadRoom Audio

See how the lows are bumped up and there's a big dip starting around 2kHz? Just speculating here since I've never tried these headphones but it could be that the boost in lows + dip around 2k may result in you perceiving that the high highs are brittle. Any boost/dip in one part of the frequency range will alter your perception of other parts. You can adjust by boosting in the dips and cutting in the bumped up areas via global eq or with eq blocks per preset. I prefer to do it globally when I use headphones and then if I'm running on another system I just put the global eq flat again.

On the other hand, it could have nothing to do with the headphones. Cutting highs in the cab block and/or trying different cabs would be near the top of my list of things to try first.
 
before you go messing about with filters, eq and advanced parameters, you need to create and test your patches on the system you use live at something approaching live volume. you're overcompensating for a lack of top end at the moment and then when you go live it's too much. different speakers and headphones have a massive impact on what you hear...none of them are perfectly "flat" and you mustn't assume that they are. if you want good live tones, then you must use that live rig for patch creation. if you need to then tweak for home or studio use, that's ok. you'll have the time to do that, but you can't tweak live, so they have to right before you go out.
 
Singtall said:
i just finally got a chance to hook up to my studio monitors and the monitors quickly revealed that most of my presets are just brittle on the highs. perfect for thrash tones, but i was actually going for smooth crunch tones. i have struggled to get the highs right with every firmware update. i know the problem is all me, but it still sucks. i believe this is one of the main reasons that people sell the axe-fx II.....just not knowing how to dial it in. i'm not a newb at dialing in presets, but i fear that i have been a victim of too many gear changes at one time. i got an axe-fx II and new Audio Technica M50 headphones at the same time, then i got new pickups soon after that. the headphones alone are most of my problems, because i still don't know how to eq around what i'm hearing. i'm about to go back to my old standard headphones and see what i can do to retweak my presets.

it's so frustrating to dial in presets that sound awesome on these new headphones, then go to the gig only to have to tweak some more, then go into the studio only to be totally disgusted.

the final straw for me was yesterday; i played at church and couldn't find one preset to get it done to my liking. then i got home and hooked up my studio monitors to get used to them so i could tweak my friend's new digitech rp500....only to hear his factory tone sound warmer than the axe-fx II with my presets. it was enough to make me want to sell the axe-fx and go back to the digitech pedals or eleven rack. i decided to try try again and dial it up one more time before doing anything i would regret.

i just wanted to air out my thoughts in case anyone else went through the same struggles; maybe someone could offer some advice? maybe i can help someone else once i get my bearings straight.
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I use your presets regularly, and don't experience this at all. The sound awesome through my headphones(beyerdynamic dt880) and awesome through my monitors. I can dial in something in my headphones, and it sounds the same in my monitors. Maybe try some flatter headphones? I know some people hate headphones, but when dialed in with the correct room settings, they sound amazing to me. Hope you get it sorted out.
 
i agree with everyone, i must tweak using the actual speaker i'm playing live (at a live volume).

on my old headphones that aren't listed on that website, i tweaked the eleven rack and made presets that were usable live. i actually just A/B'd presets that i tweaked live against my new presets, then tweaked the new presets to sound fairly like the live tested ones. i had good luck with that method, but i just have not been able to make a perfect preset with the axe-fx II.

i will take the axe-fx down to the church and crank her up, then tweak until i find gold.
 
just so everyone will understand the headphone tweaking mentality; i have my pa system and monitors eq'd flat, so normally what i tweak in the studio on flat monitors translates well on the live gear. sure, the live gear has a little more low end, which is easy to dial out, but for the most part everything works right. i just have not been able to get used to these headphones after using the other model for 3 years.
 
Try this pre set. IR IR IR....choosing the right one will make or break your pre set period. This is a pretty dry pre set and includes the Mad oak set basket weave Tv 57/121, but since saving this one I have gone back to the Redwirz 121/57 basket weave combo. You could use this as a rhythm, then copy it to the next bank increase gain in the OD and drive in the amp block and increase the amount of delay slightly where you will hear it fatten nicely. Save it again and change the amp to 100w plexi jump and decrease the MV to about 9.0 then hit enter to engage the SAT option.Adust drive in the amp and OD block to what you like. Then increase delay and verb to taste.This is my Lincoln Brewster Strat baseline tone (not solo). For a Les Paul I stay with the 50w jump, but for strat to my ears it wants the 100w for a solo tone.
Starting from a good pre set (sometimes very hard to come by), then finding the right IR makes a great platform to find 'your' tone! You should be able to do all this at a fairly low volume, then crank it up!

Let us know how it goes, and be encouraged it is there!
-Don
 
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Lincoln Brewster tone is what i was shooting for. i will try the preset and report back. thanks.
 
cragginshred said:
Try this pre set. IR IR IR....choosing the right one will make or break your pre set period. -Don
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This is especially true for non-master-volume amps in my experience. I found a good combination of IRs for the 50W jump that works well for most Brewster stuff, with my JS2400 anyway. Its pickups have a lot of high end like a strat though. I'll post it later when I get home.
 
Scott Peterson said:
I own the same headphones as the OP, they are nice but you cannot use them as accurate and honest monitors.

You *must* dial up your presets at over 80db and then test them at gig levels to be sure of what you have, what you've done then test them against live recordings of your choice (or at least program material) to understand how your tones will work in a mix.

Dialing up presets for Direct-to-FOH is a lot of work up front in understanding what you need to do and how; then it is a breeze on the gig because it is consistent from room to room and - assuming you did your job correctly - you'll never have to tweak at all on the gig; big or small, indoor or out because everything is nailed down and consistent.
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This.... Scott is so right.
 
Lincoln tone

Singtall said:
Lincoln Brewster tone is what i was shooting for. i will try the preset and report back. thanks.
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I use a 100 watt plexi for my Lincoln tone. Single coil neck pup, not too overdriven as his main tone is pretty clean. Today is the day is the only exception, I usually use a more overdriven Friedman BE for that tune with a bridge humbuker.
 
ok, i did some experimenting. i decided to forget everything i know up til now and just do some investigating based on presets that don't hurt my ears. i studied Mark Day's new factory preset, and while we both share some similarities in what we like to hear in a preset, i noticed that he rolled off some highs on the cabinet IR. so i started with my favorite factory cabinet (#52 - uber t75-v30) and rolled off everything above 6500hz, and cut everything below about 150hz.....extreme? maybe, but it now sounds like my trusty real Marshall cabinet from 1986. this cab setting allows me to really tweak the amp tone controls without fear of too much bass or highs.

here is a preset i just made that sounds great (like my real amp in the room) in my headphones: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5622773/Singtall Bogner Shiva 20th.syx

could someone try it out and let me now what they think?
 
Singtall said:
ok, i did some experimenting. i decided to forget everything i know up til now and just do some investigating based on presets that don't hurt my ears. i studied Mark Day's new factory preset, and while we both share some similarities in what we like to hear in a preset, i noticed that he rolled off some highs on the cabinet IR. so i started with my favorite factory cabinet (#52 - uber t75-v30) and rolled off everything above 6500hz, and cut everything below about 150hz.....extreme? maybe, but it now sounds like my trusty real Marshall cabinet from 1986. this cab setting allows me to really tweak the amp tone controls without fear of too much bass or highs.

here is a preset i just made that sounds great (like my real amp in the room) in my headphones: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5622773/Singtall Bogner Shiva 20th.syx

could someone try it out and let me now what they think?
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Sounds okay to me.
 
sounded good to me as well. at first it seemed dark, then as my ears adjusted i thought it was good.

i've been a little on the fence with how bright my tones are live....i do some hi/lo cut in the cab block this weekend just for fun, see if i like it.
 
i find that if i play with my new preset for a few minutes, then switch to my old presets, the old presets are like ice picks in my ears.

i think that the new axe-fx II presets are a good guide to how much highs should be dialed in. the new factory presets sound good (as far as highs are concerned) to my ears. the Mark Day preset is now what i consider the maximum allowable highs to have without getting ear piercing.
 
In the pre set I shared with you you will see a peq at the start of the signal chain. At filter 5 it is set to blocking then the freq is rolled back to taste. This prevents all ice pick issues. So much to learn.............it's all in the box!
 
Singtall said:
i find that if i play with my new preset for a few minutes, then switch to my old presets, the old presets are like ice picks in my ears.

i think that the new axe-fx II presets are a good guide to how much highs should be dialed in. the new factory presets sound good (as far as highs are concerned) to my ears. the Mark Day preset is now what i consider the maximum allowable highs to have without getting ear piercing.
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6.5kHz is a very common low-pass value for guitar. Works well in a mix.

For playing at home, especially with clean tones, you may want more headroom.
 
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