Boston tragedy

Status
Not open for further replies.
DLM said:
There are plenty of political forums out there where you can discuss political and world issues to your heart's content. Cliff owns these forums and pays for their hosting, so what he says goes, and he says this isn't the place for that, so this isn't the place for that. If he changes his mind about that, he'll let us know I'm sure.
Click to expand...

Cliff does "own" these forums, but a public forum like this wouldn't exist without each and everyone one of you. Cliff knows this. He strikes me as a highly intelligent, personable individual.

The only way we know that "what he says goes" is by managing the forums in a certain way, which he does very effectively.

That doesn't mean we can't have opinions about anything we read about here. When he doesn't like something he'll delete it. He has in the very short time I've been here.
 
Cliff has certainly made it known that politics are unwelcome. The problem is that certain political statements appear to be more inflammatory to him, or to the moderator, than others, and that leads to what I feel is uneven treatment. Somebody makes a religious or political statement that I find personally offensive, and... nothing happens.

However, despite what I perceive as some form of presumably unconscious bias, I still almost always resist the urge to respond. This time I could not - and I got a few personal insults for my trouble.

One of three things should happen IMHO: The lounge should go bye bye, or there should be totally unmoderated speech (or perhaps moderation involving personal attacks only - those are also verboten on these forums), or there should be iron-fisted censorship of ANY political speech, uniformly, regardless of the poster's political bent.

I just wish that people could at least be civil. I wasn't, once, and I was punished for it, and I deserved it, and I learned from it. All to the good - but only if said punishment is uniformly meted out regardless of seniority or beta-testor status or any other reason.

But in the end, this is 'Cliff's World' - it's his place, built on top of his products, and so he and the people he hires to moderate will, in the end, administer it as they see fit. We all have to accept that...
 
Last edited:
Kidsfeet said:
Huh? I don't get what you're trying to say. What are "like minded individuals"? We here all like gear. So with that we are "like minded". Otherwise this a very diverse group of people who have diverse tastes and won't be "like minded" about everything. How boring would that be!?

You state that no one is going to change anyone's mind but you're trying to change mine about what I should post. As I said, if the mods don't like what's going on, they will delete it.
Click to expand...

I think you should just read the forum rules.
 
cobbler said:
"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare" - Edmund Burke
Click to expand...

An interesting quote, given that I have spent a large part of my life, when not working hard for a living and putting two kids through college, fighting for the environment, women's rights, social justice, a living wage, and an end to violence. You are free to disagree with my ideas about what is wrong with the world, and how best to fix it, but since you actually know nothing of my work ethic, or my social conscience, or my charitable contributions, the quote above is meaningless, except as a mild form of ambiguous rebuke that failed to hit any target.

All the best. :)
 
I just read thru the forum rules. Interestingly it does not say anything about political opinions being expressed here. However, in this thread Cliff stated that he does not want anything political posted. I vote for Cliff to update the rules to include NO POLITICAL SPEACH. If I wanna see that I'll go over to my local newspaper comment section to watch the shills there.
 
edawterb said:
I just read thru the forum rules. Interestingly it does not say anything about political opinions being expressed here. However, in this thread Cliff stated that he does not want anything political posted. I vote for Cliff to update the rules to include NO POLITICAL SPEACH. If I wanna see that I'll go over to my local newspaper comment section to watch the shills there.
Click to expand...

Thank you!

If Cliff wants to put such things in the "new" forum rules, that would probably be easier for him to moderate. See, whether he "owns" the forums or not, if the rules aren't stated clearly, he has no real "teeth", especially if he wants a successful forum where people can exchange ideas about the primary function of the actual forums. You can't rule over people if there are no rules. Basically he has a problem if he has a "Lounge" but won't let people talk about whatever they want, UNLESS he specifically mentions it in the "rules". Sure he can start banning people willy nilly, but that wouldn't lead to a very successful forum community now would it?

I like the no moderation recommendation for the Lounge OR, what would be even cooler would be to have another forum for "Politics and Religion" like many other forums have when their primary goal is NOT that topic. No moderator and let people yell at each other. I've actually been an over seer on one such forum and it's quite enlightening AND entertaining.
 
Kidsfeet said:
Heated debate about politics is no different than heated debate about which preset is "better". I thought we had the freedom to discuss things as long as we are respectful and present our opinions in a non-threatening manner that refrains from personal attacks towards others in the forum. I'm not sure I see what the problem is so far. Speak your mind folks. It's what this great country was founded on.

By the way, what's "allowed" is mostly up to the forum mods. They haven't really taken this thread down yet, now have they?
Click to expand...

FractalAudio said:
Politics are not appropriate for this forum. Please refrain from posting political opinions in the future. There are better places to discuss that.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Well, since the owner of the forum has asked on many occasions through the years and above to not post religious or political content I think the prudent thing to do is honor his request.
 
The members of this forum have the tools and ability to heal the human spirit in the face of such a tragedy as this. Music, more than anything else, has the ability to erase pain and suffering. Maybe one day someone like Cliff and the Fractal Audio crew can invent a sound tool that can change the hearts of those that would perform evil deeds. Until then, let's do what we do best, lift up the nation/world w/our music.
 
Your welcome! I mean no harm man...really I don't. I've just have really grown tired of the left right paradigm.
 
funny_polymath said:
An interesting quote, given that I have spent a large part of my life, when not working hard for a living and putting two kids through college, fighting for the environment, women's rights, social justice, a living wage, and an end to violence. You are free to disagree with my ideas about what is wrong with the world, and how best to fix it, but since you actually know nothing of my work ethic, or my social conscience, or my charitable contributions, the quote above is meaningless, except as a mild form of ambiguous rebuke that failed to hit any target.

All the best. :)
Click to expand...

Well, if it failed to hit its mark then why did you reply? :)

As for my "idiotic" comment I will apologize if you take that as a personal attack as that is not the way it was intended. I had just read your blog comments on how you felt we (as in the USA) were wrong in shooting an unarmed Bin Laden without trial. Having lost a dear friend in the 9/11 tragedy and after seeing the man on international media declare war on our citizens and accept responsibility for the attacks I felt what the Seals did was far too humane for such an individual. Therefore I feel some of your comments such as that one are idiotic. That does not mean I feel you are as a person an idiot. We all say stupid things at times. I know I do. If I am to be banned or slapped on the wrist for saying so then so be it.
 
cobbler said:
Well, since the owner of the forum has asked on many occasions through the years and above to not post religious or political content I think the prudent thing to do is honor his request.
Click to expand...

It is utterly, humanly impossible for this to happen IF the "Lounge" is a place to exchange ideas outside of the purpose of the "true" forum. Ideas are exchanged and inevitably there will be discussion about these things. How can you not talk about politics/religion when people talk about "prayers"...etc. Basically, if someone asks to "pray" for those injured on this topic (which I have been), as innocent as that may seem, it does bring religion into this forum. Cliff didn't say anything about it, but he should if he REALLY wants this forum to be free of that. Asking people to "pray" is religion! Saying "my thoughts and prayers are with the families...etc", brings religious content into these forums! I am all for saying these things here, but you can't pick and choose at your discretion. On one hand you can't say "no religious or political content!!!", but then only bring up that you don't want it when it suits you whether you "own" the forums or not. Unless of course you want people to eventually flee the forums. It happens all the time. Forums fall for just exactly that reason, believe it or not. It either is or isn't. Point blank. I don't know if I made my point clear so I apologize in advance.
 
Kidsfeet said:
It is utterly, humanly impossible for this to happen IF the "Lounge" is a place to exchange ideas outside of the purpose of the "true" forum. Ideas are exchanged and inevitably there will be discussion about these things. How can you not talk about politics/religion when people talk about "prayers"...etc. Basically, if someone asks to "pray" for those injured on this topic (which I have been), as innocent as that may seem, it does bring religion into this forum. Cliff didn't say anything about it, but he should if he REALLY wants this forum to be free of that. Asking people to "pray" is religion! Saying "my thoughts and prayers are with the families...etc", brings religious content into these forums! I am all for saying these things here, but you can't pick and choose at your discretion. On one hand you can't say "no religious or political content!!!", but then only bring up that you don't want it when it suits you whether you "own" the forums or not. Unless of course you want people to eventually flee the forums. It happens all the time. Forums fall for just exactly that reason, believe it or not. It either is or isn't. Point blank. I don't know if I made my point clear so I apologize in advance.
Click to expand...

There is a vast difference in saying something along the lines of praying for the poor people that suffered such a tragedy yesterday and religious debates. Come on...
 
cobbler said:
Well, if it failed to hit its mark then why did you reply? :)

As for my "idiotic" comment I will apologize if you take that as a personal attack as that is not the way it was intended. I had just read your blog comments on how you felt we (as in the USA) were wrong in shooting an unarmed Bin Laden without trial. Having lost a dear friend in the 9/11 tragedy and after seeing the man on international media declare war on our citizens and accept responsibility for the attacks I felt what the Seals did was far too humane for such an individual. Therefore I feel some of your comments such as that one are idiotic. That does not mean I feel you are as a person an idiot. We all say stupid things at times. I know I do. If I am to be banned or slapped on the wrist for saying so then so be it.
Click to expand...

1) I replied to show how hopelessly meaningless and biased your comment was. It is indicative of your entire thought process. You cast aspersions and insults that make no sense.
2) Dude: I GREW UP IN NYC! I lived RIGHT Across the river in Booklyn. Our neighborhood was awash in burning paper that day. I lost several friends and aquaintences. Every day we held vigils and walked down avenues festooned with posters of the 'missing'. But somehow, that experience didn't lead me (or SOME OF THE FAMILIES OF THOSE KILLED IN THE WTC) to support the abrogation of the rule of law, or to respect and accept the heinous act of shooting an unarmed man down in cold blood (something which is against the Geneva Convention, for God's sake!). Likewise, my rage at what was done to my city didn't translate into my beating the war drums for an inavasion of a country that had nothing to do with it (but, gee, has lots of OIL!), or to accept torture by coining Orwellian synonyms for it, which our news media, even 'liberal' NPR still use. Civil liberties, privacy, all down the tubes. People the military ACKNOWLEDGES are innocent, still held at Gitmo (what if that were a friend of yours???). Disgusting. We daily grow away from the rule of law and democratic institutions that made America great. We daily come to resemble the violent, amoral fiends we revile.
3) As for protesting that you were not personally attacking me, all I can say is, ya gotta be kidding me, right? And, you managed to do it again! Double down dude! I still will not drop to your level of schoolyard bullying. And, yes, you most certainly deserve censure for attacking me personally. But I hope all of your yelling and screaming will lead others to read my blog and open their eyes to a truth far more nuanced than Fox news and all the rest spoon feed us.
4) As to 'right-left paradigm' - again, interesting since I own guns and a hunting bow and am an excellent shot with both (and cook a mean venison roast). Face it: You really don't know me. At all.
 
funny_polymath said:
1) I replied to show how hopelessly meaningless and biased your comment was. It is indicative of your entire thought process. You cast aspersions and insults that make no sense.
2) Dude: I GREW UP IN NYC! I lived RIGHT Across the river in Booklyn. Our neighborhood was awash in burning paper that day. I lost several friends and aquaintences. Every day we held vigils and walked down avenues festooned with posters of the 'missing'. But somehow, that experience didn't lead me (or SOME OF THE FAMILIES OF THOSE KILLED IN THE WTC) to support the abrogation of the rule of law, or to respect and accept the heinous act of shooting an unarmed man down in cold blood (something which is against the Geneva Convention, for God's sake!). Likewise, my rage at what was done to my city didn't translate into my beating the war drums for an inavasion of a country that had nothing to do with it (but, gee, has lots of OIL!), or to accept torture by coining Orwellian synonyms for it, which our news media, even 'liberal' NPR still use. Civil liberties, privacy, all down the tubes. People the military ACKNOWLEDGES are innocent, still held at Gitmo (what if that were a friend of yours???). Disgusting. We daily grow away from the rule of law and democratic institutions that made America great. We daily come to resemble the violent, amoral fiends we revile.
3) As for protesting that you were not personally attacking me, all I can say is, ya gotta be kidding me, right? And, you managed to do it again! Double down dude! I still will not drop to your level of schoolyard bullying. And, yes, you most certainly deserve censure for attacking me personally. But I hope all of your yelling and screaming will lead others to read my blog and open their eyes to a truth far more nuanced than Fox news and all the rest spoon feed us.
4) As to 'right-left paradigm' - again, interesting since I own guns and a hunting bow and am an excellent shot with both (and cook a mean venison roast). Face it: You really don't know me. At all.
Click to expand...

1) If you feel my thinking some of your comments are idiotic is casting aspersions and insults that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I don't give a rats ass if you feel it doesn't make sense to you. I told you my motivation and even apologized if you took it personally. I even acknowledged that I make idiotic statements as well. We all do. We'll, apparently you don't feel you do. So be it.
2) I am not going to get into all the political mumbo jumbo with you and it is absolutely irrelevant where you grew up.
3) Again, I apologized if you took my "attacking" some of your comments as a personal attack. I simply do not agree with them and stated so. I expanded that I felt some of your comments are idiotic but that I do not find you an idiot. If you cannot grasp that concept or accept the apology oh well.
4) I never mentioned a right-left paradigm or guns or hunting.
5) Correct! And you do not know me. At all.
 
Come on guys, quit hurling hand grenades. Sing with me, "there's just not enough love in the world". Can anyone tell me the song and artist that penned that song?
 
yes! Okay, how bout this one. "so much style without substance, so much stuff without style, its hard to recognize the real thing. It comes along once in awhile"?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom