Best Power Amp for Modelers

Oh, and one more thing about “the best”.

A lot of people consider “tube amp into a cab in a room” the “proper” guitar sound, and can really only enjoy that.

However, it’s just an intermediate product, and it’s not how I personally prefer to hear myself when playing. I just like to have the whole thing delivered.

To me, playing through a tube amp and a cab is like driving some, I don’t know, 1970s Cadillac Eldorado - a fun exercise, but not only do I prefer my BMW as a daily driver, but I also enjoy driving it much more overall.
 
OrganicZed said:
When I bought the Fryette PS-2 and first tired it with the Axe-FX III I thought I had found the missing link. It has a lot of headroom, the dynamics are excellent, and it made the low end feel huge. I liked it a lot. Then I did a direct A/B comparison of it against a QSC RMX2450 solid state amplifier (which produces about 375W per channel into 16 Ohms) and realized that the PS-2 wasn't actually that special.

The comparison made it obvious that the PS-2 was baking in extra presence and exaggerating the low end. I tried to compensate for these issues using the presence and depth controls on the PS-2, the graphic EQ, and with adjustments to the amp block speaker impedance curve. It may be user error, but I was not able tame these artifacts in a way that sounded pleasing. In contrast, I was able to get the solid state amplifier to sound very similar to the PS-2 just by making adjustments to the graphic EQ. It gave me total control over the sound in a way that the tube power amplifier did not. It also has a massive amount of headroom and excellent dynamics, so those characteristics are not exclusive to tube amplifiers.

There are still compromises made when playing the Axe-FX though a solid state amp and speaker cabinet though. If you want the optimal response you have to manually match the low frequency resonance of the amp block speaker impedance curve to the response of your particular guitar cabinet. I used a DATS V3 to measure the speaker impedance curves of my cabinets so I could precisely match the low frequency resonance in the amp block to them. That's cool, but I still have to manually adjust the amplitude and Q of that resonant peak by ear. I'd love to see the Axe-FX IV feature the ability to measure and save the speaker impedance curve of a user's cabinet in the same way that the current generation can measure and save IRs.
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The exaggerated low end and extra presence was exactly what I experienced with the LX-II. Great power amp but no matter what I did, I just could not find a middle ground that worked for my setup.
 
Other physical tube downsides to consider tho I would imagine Fryette has minimized these:
  • Physical tubes are consumables - they regularly wear out.
  • Physical tubes tend to be more inconsistent wrt their manufacture.
  • Physical tube amps are often more prone to noise issues.
  • Physical tubes run hot and need relatively more cooling. In power amp solutions fans are often used which can be annoyingly noisy in low volume playing situations.
 
sprint said:
Other physical tube downsides to consider tho I would imagine Fryette has minimized these:
  • Physical tubes are consumables - they regularly wear out.
  • Physical tubes tend to be more inconsistent wrt their manufacture.
  • Physical tube amps are often more prone to noise issues.
  • Physical tubes run hot and need relatively more cooling. In power amp solutions fans are often used which can be annoyingly noisy in low volume playing situations.
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Yes, the LX-II fan was noticeable not to mention the heat that thing put out.
 
sprint said:
Theoretically, real tube power amps should not be needed for the "best" sound since power tubes are already modelled in the signal chain (prob why there's no "Output Mode" value in Axfx's amp block for "Tube Pwr Amp + Cab"). If we were completely "there" wrt modelling as many claim, a good quality SS power amp should be sufficient to get that "best" sound - but, tho Fractal's come a long long way + crushes the competition on modelling, and excellent tone can be had with SS (ie: I have Matrix GT for basement hacking), many folks' preference for physical tube power amps with Axfx seems like evidence that there's still room for modelling improvement despite ongoing advancement. I've gassed for a Fryette LXII or P.S. but have held off due not only to cost / availability, but also due to the observation (and tonal evidence) that Fractal consistently pursues closing the "gap", and due to my desire to stick to the modelling dream of perfect tube tone without the need for any physical tubes in the chain.
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Exactly.. I don’t believe modeled amps (nor solid state power amps) are driving and interacting with a guitar speaker in quite the way a true tube power amp does.

That’s what my experience and intuition tells me at this point. I am totally ignorant to the electronic science and engineering, but I do know code, and it would take some seriously interstellar code to truly model all the intricate interactions going on between a tube preamp and cab.

It’s so close. Seems to me modelers were designed for going frfr first. They lack when you try to use the Axe FX as an amp head without an awesome power amp. The real thing. Sadly it seems many users and engineers are pleased to cut the corners that are traditional guitar speakers, and continue into that territory, but I hope I’m proven wrong. Seems like everything’s becoming almost-real these days.
 
sprint said:
Other physical tube downsides to consider tho I would imagine Fryette has minimized these:
  • Physical tubes are consumables - they regularly wear out.
  • Physical tubes tend to be more inconsistent wrt their manufacture.
  • Physical tube amps are often more prone to noise issues.
  • Physical tubes run hot and need relatively more cooling. In power amp solutions fans are often used which can be annoyingly noisy in low volume playing situations.
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Steve Fryette tells stories of how 20-30 years later he’s still swapping the same tubes back into major rock band’s amps (after world tours). Wonder why he’d be doing that and they’d keep going back.. 😁
 
Right now i'm using an ehx 5mm power amp at home with my orange 2x12 it sounds very good and musical but it can't cover a loud rehearsal with 16ohm cabs. I wonder if it's worth it to buy the 44 magnum. It should be enough for rehearsals and backup amp.
 
vangrieg said:
Oh, and one more thing about “the best”.

A lot of people consider “tube amp into a cab in a room” the “proper” guitar sound, and can really only enjoy that.

However, it’s just an intermediate product, and it’s not how I personally prefer to hear myself when playing. I just like to have the whole thing delivered.

To me, playing through a tube amp and a cab is like driving some, I don’t know, 1970s Cadillac Eldorado - a fun exercise, but not only do I prefer my BMW as a daily driver, but I also enjoy driving it much more overall.
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In my part of the country, those 1970s Cadillacs were called Dildorados. I knew a guy who had one and I used to warn him all the time not to drive it too close to the navy base or some cocky fly boy might just try to slam a F-14 down on the hood. :eek:
 
supersonic182 said:
Tried the Orange Pedal Baby and an expensive hoard of other solutions. I cannot recommend the Fryette Power Station enough.

It’s immediately brought the analog-tube-texture back to the sound coming from my cab, the saturated drip under my fingers, and makes the speaker dance with the sound properly even at lower volumes than I typically play.

It simply does what I expect, which is what I saw someone else on here say shortly before I went for broke and got one.

It put that warmth back into the signal, and of course does so much more. It has various power amp voicings, which I didn’t even realize till I got it. It doesn’t radically alter the tone. It just sounds and feels right. So glad that I went ahead and finally tried it for myself!

When you just want that amp and cab stuff but you’re sunk in a high end modeler… nothing else compares, really. I feel uniquely qualified in having really given so many other options too much of a try. So many people I was taking advice from along the way had only tried one or two budget options, and were “good enough” minded. For better or worse it was not good enough for me, but I did nearly give up on the dream.

…oh, and anyone telling you they used the Fryette PS with their power amp modeling off… take their words on this topic with less than a grain of salt. They were and are confused, and they don’t even know it.

If your playing and enjoyment come before the audience, and you love tubey reality; accept no substitutes, I say. Lots of these guys with solid state are truly happy, but they don’t seem to share my need for that extra sauce. They’re the lucky ones in the cave if you ask me. They “don’t hear or feel a difference,” and it doesn’t dampen their playing. Must be nice.
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https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...by-bomb-vs-tech21-vs-origin-modelers.2259367/

I know it's not in the price ranges of these other options, but....

Fryette PS wins everything. Been gigging one for over a year now.
 
tealtonerick said:
In my part of the country, those 1970s Cadillacs were called Dildorados. I knew a guy who had one and I used to warn him all the time not to drive it too close to the navy base or some cocky fly boy might just try to slam a F-14 down on the hood. :eek:
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If I were a FOH engineer in a smallish venue, I’d certainly snap at some point and freaking shoot one of those guys with amps on stage, especially those who keep turning knobs after every song. 🤪

That being said, folks with modelers who have completely different presets with 5 amp cab combinations per song would also be my victims.

Sometimes when there’s an amp on stage and I’m in the audience it’s also annoying but most of the time it’s kind of possible to move to a place where the damned thing isn’t piercing my brain and yet is heard. Although not always.

So good I’m not a FOH guy. 🤣
 
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zebric21 said:
Right now i'm using an ehx 5mm power amp at home with my orange 2x12 it sounds very good and musical but it can't cover a loud rehearsal with 16ohm cabs. I wonder if it's worth it to buy the 44 magnum. It should be enough for rehearsals and backup amp.
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Personally I'd avoid those little power amps in pedal format powered at 9v... If you need something cheap and portable take a look at the TC BAM or the Harley Benton GPA-100.
Both 200w into 4 ohm, so should be around 50w into 16 ohm.

But if your 2x12 is 16 ohm it probably has two 8 ohm speakers wired in series, if you rewire them in parallel you'll have a 4 ohm cab and you'll basically double the volume (4x the power) of any solid state power amp.
 
DLC86 said:
But if your 2x12 is 16 ohm it probably has two 8 ohm speakers wired in series, if you rewire them in parallel you'll have a 4 ohm cab and you'll basically double the volume (4x the power) of any solid state power amp.
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Sometimes. But for that formula to work, the power amp has to actually be capable of delivering that much power.

If a power amp produces 100 watts with a 16-ohm load — and there is tons of spare power available — then it will feed 400 watts into a 4-ohm load. But if the power amp is only capable of delivering 130 watts, then 130 watts is the most you’ll ever get, no mater what the cab impedance is.
 
DLC86 said:
Personally I'd avoid those little power amps in pedal format powered at 9v... If you need something cheap and portable take a look at the TC BAM or the Harley Benton GPA-100.
Both 200w into 4 ohm, so should be around 50w into 16 ohm.

But if your 2x12 is 16 ohm it probably has two 8 ohm speakers wired in series, if you rewire them in parallel you'll have a 4 ohm cab and you'll basically double the volume (4x the power) of any solid state power amp.
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The ehx stuff is quality products. Offcourse the 5mm is for bedroom use mostly but it is really good for that. I hear a lot of fuzz about the TC bam. Is it OK for guitar? What about the gain control as we just need a clean power amp.
 
Rex said:
Sometimes. But for that formula to work, the power amp has to actually be capable of delivering that much power.

If a power amp produces 100 watts with a 16-ohm load — and there is tons of spare power available — then it will feed 400 watts into a 4-ohm load. But if the power amp is only capable of delivering 130 watts, then 130 watts is the most you’ll ever get, no mater what the cab impedance is.
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Yep, but usually the rating in the specs is for a 4 ohm load, so if it is rated for 400w it surely will deliver at least 100w into 16 ohm or at least 200w into 8 ohm.
 
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zebric21 said:
The ehx stuff is quality products. Offcourse the 5mm is for bedroom use mostly but it is really good for that. I hear a lot of fuzz about the TC bam. Is it OK for guitar? What about the gain control as we just need a clean power amp.
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Never tried the TC but I've read a lot of positive reviews. The gain i think is just clean volume, the eq is probably not flat with everything at 12 o'clock but iirc someone shared the settings on this forum to make it flat.

Personally I own a Harley Benton GPA-100 and it's not bad at all, it is quite flat too with eq controls at noon.... Compared to my Icepower stereo power amp it misses a tiny bit of "oomph" on the low end and seems a bit more fizzy, but it's a subtle difference.
 
DLC86 said:
Yep, but usually the rating in the specs is for a 4 ohm load, so if it is rated for 400w it surely will deliver at least 100w into 16 ohm or at least 200w into 8 ohm.
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Right. If the amp's power spec is measured at the lowest impedance setting, then that formula works. But if the amp's power spec is measured at any higher impedance, then the formula may or may not work.
 
For guitar cabs I'm not so fussy about how accurately flat the power amp is since, in many instances the guitar speakers are coloring any modelled sound I put into them in a way I would not necessarily always prefer if using FRFR. But for power amps powering my FR Cabs, I want it as flat and colorless as possible.
 
SpudMan said:
Except they just increased the price to $1,999. I can't recall the previous price, but I believe it was a fairly significant increase. I guess tariffs, and if so, it shows how many parts of a US made product are foreign sourced.
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What?! Geeze. I got mine used for somewhere around $700. I still think that is possible, used.
 
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