Before I return my FM3…

[Admin M@]

it appears the problem is solved!!!!

I was just going to say... the FM3 is very reliable when it comes to MIDI, as long as the upstream devices are also very reliable, which many are not!

 

[DougB415]

So I purchased a new USB to Midi cable (not M-Audio) and... it appears the problem is solved!!!! This has been years of midi switching issues starting with my AX8. Wow! Thanks for all the responses- I learned some good tips about the FM3.

I think Cliff said something like 99% of all problems with Fractal gear is bad cables.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

Happened to me with 2 different cables. Both cables "worked" for typical USB operation, but not reliably for audio streaming. When in doubt, change it out.

 

[galgogergo]

I can't speak for that specific unit, but I've had two M-Audio MIDI Uno USB/MIDI interfaces and both were notorious for noise (i.e., random stuck notes). If M-Audio uses similar chips or tech in their various devices, I imagine that is a likely source of your MIDI glitches.

Be aware that Fractal appears to have neglected to put a current-limiting resistor on the FM3's MIDI out, so if you connect a device that uses the 5v (?) from that MIDI DIN socket, be aware that it might heat up and cause damage to either the connected device and/or the FM3 itself. That was the gist of the above linked WIDI thread.

Jesus... did they fix this with the FM9? (the omitted resistor I mean.)


Also, is the FM9 capable of MIDI over USB?

 

[Lohengrin]

I think Cliff said something like 99% of all problems with Fractal gear is bad cables.

Yep, he indeed made a whole thread out of it!
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/if-you-read-nothing-else-read-this.162537/

...notice he doesn't specify "with Fractal Gear"

 

[stub]

Jesus... did they fix this with the FM9? (the omitted resistor I mean.)

Unfortunately, FAS did not respond in the thread about the overheating WIDI module. I suggested on that thread that FAS could at least include a warning in their docs about connecting devices that draw power from the MIDI OUT port. It must be pretty rare, or perhaps some external devices include redundant current limiters as a precaution. The current-limiting resistor is part of the official MIDI spec, so it really SHOULD be there.

As FAS hadn't publicly acknowledge this design/build flaw, unfortunately we don't know if it was addressed/fixed for the FM9.I can't remember if someone tested the WIDI device on the FM9 and got a "cool to the touch" result.

In any case, those lucky enough to have read that thread or this one, will get a hint to use a home-made adapter with a current-limiting resistor soldered in to protect devices from damage.

 

[Dutch]

My Yamaha MD-BT01 is cool to the touch after several hours.

 

[stub]

Perhaps some external MIDI devices that draw power have their own current limiting built-in to account for improperly designed sending devices. So it becomes something of a roll of the dice whether the particular make/model of device has taken this extra (unnecessary, non-spec) step.

The only word from FAS on this (above) is to cast doubt on the reliability of downstream devices; with no info about their circuit.

 

[PRSfreak4]

The only word from FAS on this (above) is to cast doubt on the reliability of downstream devices; with no info about their circuit.

Thank you for representing 0.1% of customers who invest their time on focusing on the 0.1% of issues Fractal Audio consumers experience.

More seriously, you get what you pay for. If there are 'better' MIDI/BT devices that function properly at adequate temperatures, probably worth the investment for your subset of needs.

- to each their own. I learned a lot from this thread. To the OP @ImMana, sounds like an FC-6 is in your future with some of the newer Setlist features as well. Historically with my MFC-101, I would build my setlist in order with Axe-Edit and just cycle through them for each tune.

Another approach is the reuse presets depending on how many different tones/FX you require for your set. Like 6 presets, then 8 different scenes per each and just chart out or remember the flow for your setlist. I've experimented with this in the past comparing my old ways to the new ways of Scenes/Preset management, but if you have to call up different songs that are dynamically brought up, that's a much greater challenge to overcome unless you can remember which preset had which scenes/features. Just a thought

 

[Shelladelic]

Keep it!!

 

[DJD100]

I have used an AX8 for years and love it. But, recently purchased an FM3 because the tone is superior (IMO). However I am have a hard time adjusting and ready to return it. Before I do, hopefully someone can provide input:

1) I am in a cover band with a 200+ song catalog. It is super important I can switch any of my 25 or so presets within seconds. On the AX8 I can pull up a list of 8 presets at a time, quickly scroll through different banks of 8 presets, and then click the preset with the associated footswitch. For the life of me, I can’t figure out how to change preset nearly as fast with the FM3. Am I missing something?? I feel I am. How can I quickly get from one preset to another on the FM3? Scrolling from one to another takes way too much time. I want to pick from list on screen like the AX8.

2) The other problem is midi. I use a laptop with Show Buddy software to play tracks, run DMX lights, and trigger my AX8 to change presets automatically via midi over USB. But without midi over USB, the FM3 is very sensitive and inconsistent in switching presets using 5 pin midi cable. It just stops working. In all fairness, using 5 pin midi I had the same issue on the AX8 so it probable has to do with the laptop. But Problem solved with AX8 midi over usb. Hence my need for bullet 1 above if I run into issue live. Has anyone experienced similar midi inconsistencies?

I really hope I can find a way to keep the FM3 but I cannot risk it as is. Thanks

My show runs off of Ableton LIVE for some backing tracks, DMX, Teleprompter, and all Instrument/Vocal FX automation plus Tempo etc via 5 Pin DIN MIDI with the FM3 included among other devices, and the FM3 works just fine with 30' plus cable runs. I use one kitchen sink preset so no preset switching for me, but LIVE is automating Scenes and Block Channels as well as Tempo and Volume without any problems.

One thing is that if you run the FM3's CPU past 80% the above changes can randomly get sluggish, but below 80% it's been fine IME. I also send MIDI CC's for Tempo rather than MIDI Clock (1 bar of 1/4's or 1/8's depending on time signature etc) , works well with less overhead and bandwidth required.

 

[stub]

Thank you for representing 0.1% of customers who invest their time on focusing on the 0.1% of issues Fractal Audio consumers experience.

I guess that's one way to frame it. I'm a weirdo who represents weirdos who obsess about a very slight risk of melting a connected device.

I'm enjoying my FM3 and am learning a bunch.

As for the weirdo topic, I started a separate thread.

 

[ucnick]

You might want to try adding an FC6 to the setup. You get six more switches and can move through switch layouts faster (IMO).

That's what I did. Worked pretty good.

 

[chrisjnyc]

For 2) I can only say that I have been running fully automated shows AND rehearsals since I purchased my FM3 in 2020 and NEVER EVER had experienced a single MIDI command failed. Our setup sends MIDI from a Cymatic LP16 player into a MIDI splitter, then distributed to all devices. (I never use the switches personally -actually, my FM3 lives in the band's rack-).



As unix-guy said, I would start investigating whatever USB-MIDI interface you are using.

When I realized there was no MIDI-over-USB in the FM3, I thought that it was going to be a major drawback. Then, I remembered I had an old USB-MIDI interface buried with other gizmos in the bottom of a drawer. I plugged that into my computer and never looked back.

That Cymatic LP16 player looks really nice... Have not seen that one. Are you using it for backing tracks? Do you route your backing tracks to a lot of outputs?

 

[Lohengrin]

That Cymatic LP16 player looks really nice... Have not seen that one. Are you using it for backing tracks? Do you route your backing tracks to a lot of outputs?

Extermelly functional piece of gear, it had a very tight price as well. Sadly, I think cymatic closed in 2022, so you can only get them now second hand at skyrocketing prices. As far as I know there is no direct substitute in the market at its price range (below 500€).

With 16 independent mono outputs + midi, we use it to send stereo orchestration directly to FOH, MIDI automation (lights, smoke, preset changes) and click tracks towards IEM (through a Behringer mixer).

 

[FractalAudio]

I can't speak for that specific unit, but I've had two M-Audio MIDI Uno USB/MIDI interfaces and both were notorious for noise (i.e., random stuck notes). If M-Audio uses similar chips or tech in their various devices, I imagine that is a likely source of your MIDI glitches.

Be aware that Fractal appears to have neglected to put a current-limiting resistor on the FM3's MIDI out, so if you connect a device that uses the 5v (?) from that MIDI DIN socket, be aware that it might heat up and cause damage to either the connected device and/or the FM3 itself. That was the gist of the above linked WIDI thread.

The M-Audio UNO is notoriously bad. Back in the original Axe-Fx days we had a warning to NOT use it with the Axe-Fx.

 

[Mystic38]

I still have my AX8 and still think it is a far better layout with regard to footswitches than FM3+FC6, so i can understand where the OP is coming from.

It would be nice that if a long press on bank+ or bank- would scroll banks at twice the speed or more.. but idk, perhaps using setlists is an answer for you?