Bank switching on MFC

Adinfinitum

Experienced
Can the MFC access all 3 banks of presets at once or do you to set up an IA for bank up and another for Bank down?
 
The manual - available on FAS site - shows that the default setting for the far right button(s) on the two bottom rows of footswitches are set to be Bank Up and Down respectively. Page 2/3.
How those operate is controlled by the Global Bank value. Default is 5.
 
Still waiting mine, but as far as I have read in the Owner's Manual you currently have 128 (edited) presets on the MFC.
With them you can access any of the 384 presets of the Axe-Fx.
Read carefully the MFC Manual, chapter 12.1 for a generic MIDI device (also the Axe-Fx if the MFC is set in non Axe-Fx mode).
Remember that for all points in 12.1 you first have to select the MFC preset at 12.1.0.
Note that under 12.1.X (all but 12.1.0.) you always see: You must first select a preset (12.1.0 on p. 36) to ...
Then you can specify what the MFC preset does with all the following 12.1.x points.
At 12.1.2 there is Preset Program Changes.
There you can set which program change shall be sent to MIDI devices, i.e. the which Device preset shall be selected for the MFC preset you have previously selected, a table is also provided so explanation is very clear.
Note the MFC can use PC 000-999 in a linear form : Bank selection and Program-within-the-bank will be calculated by the MFC.

In Axe-Fx mode (that is the default one), there is the Axe-Fx Preset Transmit Map at 12.4.2.
Same principle, with MFC Preset field you selects the preset on the MFC and with Axe-Fx Preset (shown as DBK in the figure) you select which Axe-Fx shall correspond to the MFC preset.

I know, if the MFC had at least 384 presets it would all be much simpler, anyway the limitation is in the MIDI spec, that limits the PC to 128, thus the need to use banks.
 
s0c9 said:
The manual - available on FAS site - shows that the default setting for the far right button(s) on the two bottom rows of footswitches are set to be Bank Up and Down respectively. Page 2/3.
How those operate is controlled by the Global Bank value. Default is 5.

You are talking about MFC banks, not the Axe-Fx banks!
As you don't have 128 switches on the MFC also here you have "banks" that shall be used, as you explain, to select (one of the 128) MFC presets, but I think Adinfinitum is referring to the 3 banks of the Axe-Fx.

Too many banks in the world... :)
 
Still not sure I follow.

I have three banks of 128 programs. With my Voodoo Floor Board, I can use the bottom row of IAs to switch between four presets and then use the Bank Up and Down to go through the 128 presets of Bank A.

If I want preset 256 on the Axe, I have to use the rotary to dial it in.

With the MPC, can I access all 380 presets via IAs? In other words, set up IAs to send midi bank up and down to access Banks B and C as well?
 
Adinfinitum said:
Still not sure I follow.

I have three banks of 128 programs on the Axe-Fx. With my Voodoo Floor Board, I can use the bottom row of IAs to switch between four presets and then use the Bank Up and Down to go through the 128 presets of Bank A.

If I want preset 256 on the Axe, I have to use the rotary to dial it in (not with the MFC).

With the MPC I think you mean the MFC, can I access all 380 presets via IAs (IA is not the best term to be used here as IA normally are are to switch on/off effects within the preset) ? In other words, set up IAs (I'd better say foowswitches) to send midi bank up and down to access Banks B and C as well?
Yes, but without any MIDI programming, see below

You don't have to program a lot of things, just a map, technically a look up table.
It's all the the manual but I'll try to explain in other words.
On the MFC you have a limited :lol: number of switches, I mean they are only 21 :D while you can have many more presets (128 on the MFC).
In other to access more than 21 "things" you have to use mappings (the reality, for preset selection, it that you can use up to 15 of the 21 switches, see fig. 4.1).
Here you have the flexibility to select the bank size. If you set bank size = 5 (the default one), the bottom row is for selecting presets, the upper rows are for IA (effects on/off). When bank size is 5, only footswitches 1-5 can be used to select presets. So to access all the 128 MFC presets you have to bank up/down (INCR/DECR), and then select the preset with footswitches 1-5.
Example : to access MFC preset 5 you have to bank up once and then press switch 1.
(note: by default presets are numbered 0..127, so on the 1st bank you have presets 0..4 and preset number 5 is the 1st preset of the 2nd bank, see 14.3 pg. 69)
OK, now we have selected MFC preset 5, what this corresponds too ?
In order to assign the Axe-Fx preset number e.g. 297 to MFC preset 5 you have to program the map (lookup table), refer to 12.4.2 of the Manual.
For the the example, you must have
  • Axe-FX TxMap 005->297
Now when you select the MFC preset 5 you will activate Axe-Fx preset 297.

In order to simplify things, there are other capabilities on the MFC, e.g. the Default Bank.
If you use Default Bank there is a one-to-one relationship between MFC and Axe-Fx presets.
How can it be done ? The Axe-Fx has 384 presets!
OK, you select which is the Axe-FX Default Bank (A/B/C) with 12.4.1, the rest goes as this
If you selected Bank A -> MFC preset 0..127 = Axe-Fx preset 0..127
If you selected Bank B -> MFC preset 0..127 = Axe-Fx preset 128..255
If you selected Bank C -> MFC preset 0..127 = Axe-Fx preset 256..383
As shipped, on MFC default bank is used and Bank A is selected so there is a real one-to-one relation with Axe-Fx presets. So, as shipped, you can't access Axe-Fx presets above 127.
I think you can also move your most used Axe-Fx presets to Axe-Fx bank A (with the editor) and keep the default (factory) MFC programming, but in my opinion it's very easy to program the map.

I don't know if I have been clear, but I'm not mother-tongue and... my MFC is not here (scheduled for next week from G66). Take into account the only MIDI device I've used up to now is... the Midisport 2x2 :eek: I use to program the Axe-Fx! :shock:
Taking into account this, I consider the MFC-101 Owner's Manual a very, very good manual as I had no doubt in reading it (and I've read it in small batches while going to work). As usual, Cliff & co. made a very good job, I suggest to read it at least twice. If you are a MIDI/programmer newbie may be the 1st reading will let you some doubts, just write them down, they will be clear on 2nd reading, and you can have help from the Forum for any eventual obscure side...
 
Thanks, but this is not what I'm asking. I want to be able to access all 380 presets. I don't want to move my favorites to Bank A. The problem is the word "bank". I know you can move through all of Bank A's presets by using the bank up/down Ias. This is how the Ground Control works. I don't wasn't to be limited in only accessing 128 presets via the MFC. DOES THE MFC SEND BANK UP AND DOWN TO MOVE TO BANK B AND BANK C so you can then used IAs 1-5 and bank IAs to move through presets 129-256?
 
I thought Terry64 made it pretty clear in his post.
NO! you can't do what you are asking by default.
However you can map to bank B and C patches.
I also believe (from reading the manual) that in SONG and SET modes, you can reference ANY of the 384 patches.
However, you can't simply scroll thru all 384 patches.

The onboard memory stores 128 Presets, 100 Songs, and 10 Sets of up to 50 Songs each
 You can globally designate 0, 5, 10, or 15 footswitches for selecting PRESETS, which send:
  • - Up to 16 MIDI program change messages (one per channel).
    - MIDI commands for the saved states of up to 41 instant access switches.
    - ON or OFF messages for up to 17 Internal Control Change ?messages.
    - Up to 16 bytes of custom MIDI data. Anything goes!
 Those footswitches not assigned to Presets operate as INSTANT ACCESS ;?/??SWITCHES:
  • - Axe-Fx functions may be assigned to IA Switches simply by selecting from a list.
    - IA Switches may be set for Toggle (aka "Latching"), ?Momentary ("Hold") or ?Auto-Off? type.
    - ?General Use? IA Switches have independent ON and OFF command sets, each with:
o Up to two CC# messages with custom values
o One MIDI program change command
o Up to 16 bytes of custom MIDI data. Anything goes!
 
So, you can only access 128 axe-fx patches total. Can you set up an IA to send a Bank change midi message? That would be an OK workaround.
 
Adinfinitum said:
So, you can only access 128 axe-fx patches total. Can you set up an IA to send a Bank change midi message? That would be an OK workaround.

You can set up any preset on the MFC to access any preset on the Axe-fx w/o having to worry about sending A bank change (the MFC takes care of it). You just program the MFC to go to that preset on the Axe-fx.

If you want to access all 3 banks w/ an IA can set up an IA to send a bank change but you'll need more than 1 IA to access all 3 banks.
 
Thank java,

So, you would use three separate IAs, one for each Bank (A B C)(sending a bank change midi command), as opposed to a Bank up, Bank. Down IA?
 
Adinfinitum said:
Thank java,
So, you would use three separate IAs, one for each Bank (A B C)(sending a bank change midi command), as opposed to a Bank up, Bank. Down IA?
In principle I think you can, but in my opinion (my MFC -101 is not yet here) you lose the Axe-Fx mode.
Let me explain.
You can map the 3 IA for bank selection, but in Axe-Fx mode once you select an MFC preset it would make the lookup to the Axe-Fx preset (manually programmed or using the default mapping), and send both the bank selection and the preset selection, thus overriding your stomp on one of your 3 IA.
So I think deeper programming in non-Axe-Fx mode is needed. Surely you can then map the remaining IA to fixed Program Changes (see 12.4.9), but take into account we don't have 128 of them...
I don't know if MIDI (or the Axe-Fx MIDI implementation) foresee a "Program Change Up/down" command. If this is available, you can have your 3 IA for bank selection plus 2 IA for PC Up/Down.
If this is not available, I think it's not useful to have the Bank selection IAs, as you would have less presets available (21 - 4 (reveal,edit,etc) - 3 (for bank selection) - x (for effect on/off))
I think a way for scanning all the Axe-Fx preset would be useful, but currently the easiest way to map the 128 MFC presets to the 384 Axe-Fx presets is via the Transmit map (12.4.2).

s0c9 said:
I also believe (from reading the manual) that in SONG and SET modes, you can reference ANY of the 384 patches.
However, you can't simply scroll thru all 384 patches.
I don't think so, the Manual states in the Song/Set Menu at 12.2.0:
  • Song Edit is used to assign MFC-101 presets to the selected song
Think of this. Most things on the MFC are related to the MFC itself, this also rules for MFC presets, as a lot of stuff is linked to them. Then the MFC preset is mapped to the controlled device (via the transmit map or default settings).
It's true in song/set mode you can access all the Axe-Fx 384 patches, but this is always true : you can access all the Axe-Fx 384 patches (via the transmit map), but you can only map 128 of them on the MFC-101, regardless the mode (preset/song/set) you use.
In other words, you can randomly access 128 out of 384 MFC presets.
 
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