Axe2 Preset building

clarky said:
reveal calls up
IA1 = scene1 - Riff
IA2 = scene2 - Solo
IA3 = scene3 - Clean
IA4 = CC:20 [modifier extern1]
IA5 = CC:21 [modifier extern2]
Click to expand...
I'm still confused about what's morphing into what. You've got three sounds, each with its own scene. You can't morph between scenes, so there must be at least one more tone that one of your three scenes can morph into. Or...?
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
Scenes only control engage/bypass, x/y, last layout page "main" level and a few FX block items. It cannot change other block settings like pan or drive etc.

You could set different pan settings per x/y amps, but I'm sure you are using x/y for other things already.
Click to expand...

I knew the scenes feature had limited controls.. but for some reason I mistakenly thought that pan was one of them..

now I'm wondering if I can simultaneously switch scene and send MIDI:CC from the MFC
If I can't, then I'll have to find another way or go back to modifiers to switch to solo mode
 
boardwlk17 said:
So if we change any level like amp,,cab,fx it will change in all of the scenes?
Click to expand...
yes.. you can have different levels settings in each scene for any fx block

boardwlk17 said:
If I want different levels in scenes it has to be done in the last output main output?
Click to expand...

that's one way of doing it
you could also set it via the level control of your final fx block..
the outcome will be the same
 
Rex said:
I'm still confused about what's morphing into what. You've got three sounds, each with its own scene. You can't morph between scenes, so there must be at least one more tone that one of your three scenes can morph into. Or...?
Click to expand...

riff morphs clean<->dirty
solo morphs clean<->dirty

I'm considering setting amp2:Y to a clean amp
this will be able to morph because the modifiers will still be attached from the X side of the amp
but to be honest, all it'll do is make the tone go quieter - so I won't use the XP with this scene

so.. what's the point??
a dirty amp cleaned has quite a different tone to an amp that's set clean from the start..
think of the difference between having a crunch tone and winding back the volume on your guitar..
sure you now have a clean tone, but it's not the same as say a Fender Twin set clean

also there are times when I'd prefer to morph to clean or morph to dirty rather than switch to it..
 
Note to Clarky: MFC experiment
- set IA1: none / c1 CC:34 0 0 / c2 CC:20 0 0
- set IA2: none / c1 CC:34 1 1 / c2 CC:20 127 127

CC:34 0 = scene1 [note: if values 0 0 don't work, try 0 8 for scene1 / 1 9 for scene2]
CC:34 1 = scene2
CC:20 0 modifer extern5 = off [note: if values 0 0 don't work, try 0 and a value that is >=63]
CC:20 127 modifer extern5 = on [as above <=64 and 127]
 
Note to Clarky: options thoughts
if you can't get scenes 1 and 2 to be a viable solution
go back to riff/solo switching via modifiers
use scene3 to X-Y for clean
try amp1 JCM800 and amp2 iwatt Normal [maybe try to reproduce the studio funk tone]

alternative...
If I can get scene switching working in conjuction with modifier: extern5 switching, this opens up the following possiblilties:
scene1 - riff
amp1:X = 5153Blue
amp2:X = VH4ch3

scene2 - solo
amp1:Y = 5153Red
amp2 mute

scene3 - 'thick' clean'
amp1 mute
amp2:Y = Hiwatt Normall
 
actually I've not thought about it that way...
but yes... essentially 5 tones...

the killer difference between the cleans is that the 'amp' clean will be full bodied in a way that the cleaned riff tone can't be
but the cleaned riff tone has that edge to it where you dig in a little and it'll start to break up a little
and the cleaned solo tone [being even gainier to start with] is even closer to the breakup..
this is less exposed when playing single notes, but throw in a big power chord and you'll find there's still some gain in there..
 
V I C T O R Y ! ! !

MFC layout
IA1 - scene1: Riff
IA2 - scene2: Solo
IA3 - scene3: Clean

When I switch from Riff to clean, more things are happening than scenes can handle, so for my config, scenes can only be part of the solution, but not all of it.
Small example:
Riff
amp1: active / pan left
amp2: active / pan right

Solo
amp1: active / pan centre
amp2: mute

scenes can handle the bypass state changes [active to mute and back]
but they cannot handle the panning of amp1
in my previous solution, everything was handled via modifier: extern5 [MIDI:CC 20]

solution:
- set IA1: none / c1 CC:34 0 0 / c2 CC:20 0 0
- set IA2: none / c1 CC:34 1 1 / c2 CC:20 127 127

this means that the IA's are now set to 'general MIDI CC' so I can send two MIDI ON / OFF commands on two different MIDI: CC's
to break the above down

- set IA1: none <-- used to be set to 'scene1' but now set to 'none' which sets this IA to 'general' mode
c1 CC:34 0 0 <-- c1='command number 1' [cos I can up to two commands I can set up]
for CC:34 [the scenes CC number] transmit values 0 for OFF and 0 for ON [0 = scene number]
so this means IA1 selects scene1

c2 CC:20 0 0 <-- c2='command number 2'
for CC:20 [the CC number that switches modifier: extern5] transmit values 0 for OFF and 0 for ON [in this case value 0 = 'turn things off']
so this means IA1 triggers modifier: extern5 into it 'min' state in the modifier
using the example above, amp1 pans left

- set IA2: none <-- as above
c1 CC:34 1 1 <-- command 1 selects scene2 [where CC:34 = scenes value 1 is for scene2]
c2 CC:20 127 127 <-- command 2
for CC:20 [the CC number that switches modifier: extern5] transmit values 127 for OFF and 127 for ON [in this case value 127 = 'turn things on']
so this means IA1 triggers modifier: extern5 into it 'max' state in the modifier
amp1 pans centre

I set up IA3 for scene3 but did it the same as above
- set IA2: none / c1 CC:34 2 2 [where 2 = scene3]

this alone isn't enough cos all the LEDs stay lit when you hit the IA's
hit IA1 for Riff and the LED turns green, hit IA2 to Solo and that LED turns on..
now I have both LEDs on....
solution: link the IA's [section 12.5.10 in the MFC manual]
edit: setup: LinkA
you can then put in the IA numbers that you want to link
in my case I'm running 3 scenes on IA's 1, 2 and 3
LinkA 01 02 03

now when I'm in scene1 with IA1 lit, and hit IA2 for scene2, the IA1 LED switches off and the IA2 LED is lit
I switch back and IA1 is lit, IA2 switches off

and just to make things cooler... I named the three IA's Riff, Solo and Clean respectively [section 12.5.9 in the MFC manual]

awesome stuff.....
 
lil' note: when I'm in a situation where the VG is not the backup unit [and I have a 2nd Axe - loaned / hired / eventually bought], the FC-300 will no longer be needed for control..
my control will be:

MFC-101
FV-500H for XP1
Mission SP1 for wah

in 'reveal' mode my front 5 IA's are
IA1 - scene1
IA2 - scene2
IA3 - scene3
IA4 - modifier: extern7
IA5 - modifier: extern8

modifier: extern5 is used in conjunction with scenes 1 and 2 for flipping riff to solo
modifier: extern6 is for scene3 [for whatever goodies I want to add]
modifier: extern9 is for the wah toe switch

what an awesome night's work...
 
clarky said:
lil' note: when I'm in a situation where the VG is not the backup unit [and I have a 2nd Axe - loaned / hired / eventually bought], the FC-300 will no longer be needed for control..
my control will be:

MFC-101
FV-500H for XP1
Mission SP1 for wah

in 'reveal' mode my front 5 IA's are
IA1 - scene1
IA2 - scene2
IA3 - scene3
IA4 - modifier: extern7
IA5 - modifier: extern8

modifier: extern5 is used in conjunction with scenes 1 and 2 for flipping riff to solo
modifier: extern6 is for scene3 [for whatever goodies I want to add]
modifier: extern9 is for the wah toe switch

what an awesome night's work...
Click to expand...

Crazy routing you are doing there, can't wait to see some of these in axeedit. Can you give me a simple explanation on the morphing? Is it simply cross fading between amps? If that's that case do you have control over gain during the morph?

Thanks,
Dave
 
I don't cross-fade two tones.. to me that sounds un-natural
because as the gainy tone fades and is being replaced by the cleaner tone, the quantiy of gain remains, just getting quieter..
so from the mid-point to heel down [on the XP] you get this faint waspish fizz in that background...
nasty..

when I morph from dirty to clean:
- amp drive reduces [to clean the tone]
- input trim reduces [to clean further]
- compressor mix ratio increases [to thicken the tone thinned by the 'cleaning' in the amp]
- a parallel cabled PEQ with seriously boosted low end and highs is crossfaded with the tone from the amp by a mixer [to put back the lows and hi's drained by the low drive and input trim settings]
- pitch shifter wet signal increases [used like a chorus for stereo widening and sweetening]
- reverb wet signal increases [from a very dry riffing tone to a moderately ambient clean]

I think that's about it..
 
thought - this now config I have with scenes and x-y means that I no longer need to think about a 'one size fits all' amp
essentially, the 5153Red for riffing / soloing and to morph to clean
now I can split things up..
amp1:Y - an amp for soloing
amps 1 and 2:X - a pair of amps for riffing
amp2:Y - an amp for clean

Note: this may preset some control difficulties because the X and Y side modifiers cannot be set differently
time for more experiments....
 
Hey clarky, since you are lowering input trim and drive to morph a dirty amp to clean, are you having to add volume to your clean tone to get it as loud as your dirty tone?

I had to add a volume block to my morphed clean tone to get it to a desired level of volume. It worked out well for me, but I was curious what your method was.
 
if you look at the layout of my preset you'll see it run through a pair of mixers..
the first mixer's level control gives a small 2dB boost to the cleaned tone...
I actually want the cleaned tone to be reasonably softer than the riffing tone [but of course not to vanish]..
so when I morph back to the dirty tone it comes in with impact
 
clarky said:
the first mixer's level control gives a small 2dB boost to the cleaned tone...
Click to expand...
I've found about the same: anywhere from 0 to 2 dB of boost when morphing clean to dirty. It's nice to have the confirmation. :)
 
clarky said:
if you look at the layout of my preset you'll see it run through a pair of mixers..
the first mixer's level control gives a small 2dB boost to the cleaned tone...
I actually want the cleaned tone to be reasonably softer than the riffing tone [but of course not to vanish]..
so when I morph back to the dirty tone it comes in with impact
Click to expand...

Very good, thanks for the reply.
 
a thing to note with this control stuff...
I tend to use curved lines on the modifiers rather than straight ones
also, I tend to set the curves on the so that some things happen around the same area in the XP's throw..
moving from tow to heel, I let the amp clean up [drive and input trim], but I don't start applying the 'fixes' [EQ and compression] until the tone sounds like it needs them

so for example, the EQ fix [parallel PEQ] curve is set
Gain1
min = 0
max = 1
mid = 0
end 0
slope = 100
scale = 2
offset = -100

this means that the EQ fix happens very late in the XP's travel towards the heel down position

and likewise
Gain2
min = 1
max = 0
mid = 0
end 0
slope = 100
scale = 2
offset = -100

so the original dry tone cross-fades at the same rate and so is replaced by the PEQ very late too

when setting up this sort of control, you not only have to think about "what" do you need to do to fix up the cleaning tone
but you also need to think about "when" in the XP's travel the fix up makes most sense to apply
 
I think my lines are curved as well, but I'm not for fact off the top of my head. I went about my clean morphing a little bit differently then you, so I was just curious how much volume you had to add.

I definitely hear what your saying! :D
 
Note for Clarky

FW:10 note
when morphing to clean, the min settings are now hugely too low
the level of the clean signal vanishes
all of these settings need to be reworked

resetting an amp note:
this defaults all of the amp:EQ bands to 0
this also defaults the MV
here's the plan:
the Riff/Solo amps [5153Red / VH4ch4] and Clean/Solo amps [Hiwatt Normal / 5153Red] are the only amp types I currently use
- go into Riff/Solo1 and note all amp:EQ band settings and MV for both amps
- reset both amps
- save both amps as globals linked
- go into all other Riff/SoloX presets and load linked the two amps
- repeat this process for Clean/Solo
the amp's current modifier assigns and settings will be unchanged
amp:EQ / MV corrections will be applied to all presets using these amps because they're globally linked
 
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