Axe2 Preset building

haaa I've just reamped for the first time with the Axe

it was just an experiment but revealing none the less

I was using my Riff/Solo2St2 preset
one of the things that became apparent was that the 'morphed to clean' tones do note have enough level
but this is studio right... so live will no doubt be a whole different story..

so here's how I did it

guitar -> mixer channel 2
mixer channel 2 -> DAW firewire 2
mixer channel 2, aux 1 send -> Axe [via a RedEye]
Axe out 1/2 to mixer channels 5/6

when the Logic plays I hear the mix as usual through the mixer channels 15/16
when I play along I hear the Axe trough mixer channels 5/6 as usual but the DAW records the dry guitar via firewire channel 2

I very quickly got bored with input changes on the Axe and AI to check out my performance so I dropped Guitar Rig 4 onto the channel in Logic that was recording the dry guitar. I set up a passable riffing tone in GR4 so that I could monitor my dry guitar with a riffing tone in the mix.
This allowed me to just record [hearing / feeling the Axe] and play back [hearing GR4] without all that messing around.
Saved a tone of time and made for a much better work flow.

It's not possible to reamp via my mixer because the firewire is 2in / 16out.
So when it came to reamping I switched over to the TC Elec 4in / 4out AI.
In Logic, the dry guitar was sent to firewire channel 3
The TC sends firewire 3 to physical out 3 --- wired to --> RedEye --- wired to --> Axe Instr In
Axe out 1/2 was jacked into TC in 3/4 and send to Logic
Wet guitar channel in Logic input is 3/4
and we get a very nice recording of the Axe

All dry guitars are recorded and currently playing back in Logic using GR4
Next job is to program the automation in Logic [to drive XP1] and reamp these dry guitars

When I use the TC there is a real nasty hum when it's connected to the Axe [even via the RedEye] which is why I don't like recording my dry guitar with it.
The hum does not come out on the recording to I'm not fussed about it during reamping with it though.
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of the TC now that I've had it a while and will be looking to replace it at some point.
Thinking about getting a Focusrite 8in / 8out AI - which will vastly streamline my workflow.
In the mean time I'm going to experiment with a different way of cabling my TC AI into my mixer to see if I can:
- streamline my workflow still further
- kill that irritating hum

either way... it's been a seriously productive few days work...
I'm well on my way to completing my first recording with the Axe
 
I've just finished reamping all the riffing guitars..
it's been a really interesting experience..

especially the part where I'm scratching my head wondering why Logic is not controlling XP1 via CC 20
because XP1 is actually on CC 16 ! !
jeez what a div..

one of the interesting things was to do with my clean / dirty morphing..
when I'm live my cleaned tone is quite soft and very clean relative to the full on riffing tone...
and this works great...
in the studio it don't work... at least for this particular song...
I found I needed more gain and level from the cleaned tone

historically, I've always recorded these tones separately..
but this time around I want to tone morph for a more natural sound..

the other interesting part was reproducing the control I do on the other fx [non-amp parameters] in Logic...
 
clarky said:
when I'm live my cleaned tone is quite soft and very clean relative to the full on riffing tone...
and this works great...
in the studio it don't work... at least for this particular song...
I found I needed more gain and level from the cleaned tone
Click to expand...
I'm guessing it's the lack of room volume that's killing your clean level. Try it with a cranked monitor next to you, and see how it records.
 
ahhh... it's not actually a recording problem..
more a problem regarding it's suitability in the mix...

this is for two reasons:
1 - the 'cleaned' tone in this particular song just don't work.. the song wants it to be dirtier and louder..
solution = make a copy of Riff/Solo1St2 and alter the settings so that the tone don't clean up so much..
2 - the dynamics of this particular song do not drop greatly during the verses.. so a tone with more 'energy' works better..

so this issue is not really a technical one.. more of an orchestration one [with respect to this particular song

and at 300+ preset slots, I have plenty of room in the Axe to squeeze in plenty more presets / preset variants
so this really does fall into the "no biggie" category.. lol..
 
lmao....

here's the latest info regarding the recording...

there are [will be] two guitarists in the band I'm building / writing for
me <-- kinda obvious I guess.. lol
and the singer..

this means I've been writing / recording the guitar parts for both of us

I don't really want to use my live tones in the studio, but I want to use something like it

my current live tone uses:
VH4 on the right
5153Red on the left
the 5153Red is also used for soloing
the studio soloing tone is a no brainer... 5153Red [well... at least until 7.0 comes out and I'll be testing that against the Herbert chan3]

my riffing tone though is a little different..
I decided to break that up into two distinct parts

part 1 - what I actually play live
this uses the 5153Red in mono made from a deconstruction of the Riff/Solo1St2 preset [the cab is the same but now it's the mono hires block]
so on the grid we have: in -> comp -> 5153Red -> cab -> out
in Logic I add everything else that would have been in the preset
on the 5153Red channel strip I have:
- Logic Ringshifter [use this as a phaser cos I adore it]
- EQ
- Gain [for automation purposes]
- Send 1: two mono aux channels, each panned hard with a sample delay and pitch shifter for stereo widening
- Send 2: Waves Delay and Oxford reverb [automated to emulate how I'd use the XP1 to bring in a little delay and long reverb as per Riff/Solo2St2]

note: all guitar channels have EQ and Gain [for automation] inserts

Part 2 - these part are used to augment the heavier musical passages
this is a pair of guitar parts panned 80% wide
live I use the VH4 to augment the 5153Red
studio though I don't want to use the 5153Red twice, so I wanted to use an amp that had the 5153 vibe, but that compliments the function of the VH4
right - VH4
left - 5153Blue <-- absolutely awesome.. really fits well..

and then there's the singer's part
I figured that when we tour he'll be given a JCM800 and 1960a
he'll also have with him a VG-8
so I recorded his parts with the above in mind giving him a slightly gainy tone with a little delay

all of these riffing guitars were bus'd to a 'Riff Aux' where they got a dose of Logic's Space Designer reverb [to function as 'the room'] and a touch of LA2A compression [to gently control the peaks]
and this Aux is used to control the overall level of the riffing guitars in the mix

I got to say that I am loving this
 
ahhh.... I've just realised what you're talking about...
the resonances of the guitar via the speaker...
I still have to try this out...
but having pissed of folk enough so far.. I have to be careful...

angry villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches storming the evil Clarkenstein's castle etc...
 
clarky said:
ahhh.... I've just realised what you're talking about...
the resonances of the guitar via the speaker...
Click to expand...
That's it, but just a part of it. There's also more sustain. And in some ways, it's sort of (sort of) like putting a compressor in your signal chain. It may cut through the mix better, and you might find you need less gain than you thought (though I get what you mean about it having to serve the song; maybe you need more gain anyway). More responsive feel, too.


clarky said:
angry villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches storming the evil Clarkenstein's castle etc...
Click to expand...
Just growl at 'em, pull one of the bolts out of your neck, and eat it. That'll send 'em scattering.
 
the original idea with the song was to have heavy riffs and chorus', with softer verses and bridges..

the general idea was sound, but it quickly became clear that the orchestration thinned out way too much when the tone was too clean..
so I ended up dropping to something like 50% of the gain I'd usually use..
it's still quite dirty, but not so strong.. and when the chorus arrives there's enough of a difference to hear the tone 'throttle up'..

I'm a huge fan of using dynamics in composition..
it's a thing that I think is badly missing from a lot of music from around the 5 to 10 years..
it's almost as if there is a fear that the song will lose something by cutting it back in specific places..
in fact the reverse happens.. the song often gains from it due to the contrast..

"and when everyone's turned up to 10, where can you go from there?.. nowhere!!"
 
Amen. Weave a textured tapestry, not a one-dimensional blast that pegs the needle throughout the song.
 
I knew that 7.0 would present me with a two horse race for my soloing tone between the 5153Red and the Herbert channel 3

but now there's the VH4 channel 4 too

jeez....
 
just reamped the supporting riffing guitars

5131Blue to the left
VH4ch3 to the right

sounds absolutely mental

re-reamped the solo with the 5153Red
7.0 sounds like it has extra 'stuff' to the 6.2 recording

also reamped the solo with the Herbert ch3, ohhhhh yes.... ohhhh fk yes....

I still have to reamp the principle riffing part
this was originally with the 5153Red but I'll try a version with the Herbert ch3 and the VH4ch4

and I have to re-reamp the JCM800

I think I've made a choice for the solo tone with the Herbert vs 5153Red
result...
use both..

the Herbert is more aggressive so this will be my main soloing tone
the 5153Red is sweeter is this will stay in the 'ballads' preset

win win win situation...
 
I'm up to 7.0ga now

looks like it's time to create the St3 series presets...
bring on the Diezels

ohhhh yeah...
 
just had a thought...

when I create my St3 series presets, would you guys like audio clips?
they will be exactly the same as before,
but in the Riff/Solo presets, the Das Metall and 5153Red amps are getting swapped out with the Herbert ch3 and VH4 ch3..
the Clean/Solo presets will remain as is with the Hiwatt and 5153Red, but the reverb may get a little look at due to the 7.0 enhancements..
 
I just saw your post and was wondering if anyone has tried the 6160 with a recto red tone stack? It sounds killer! Or a 5153 with a JVM 02 tonestack? I'v been experimenting with these an love the combinations. Just thought I would throw that out there.
 
I've got to say that I've not tried goofing with the tone stacks...
but now you mention it I'll certainly give it a go...

especially as tomorrow I'm going to make a start on my St3 series presets..
so this is a great opportunity for me to mess with more ideas...

thanks for the tip off... very cool....
 
so..... I've actually gone and done a whole song with the Axe-II

all guitars use the Axe-II
the song is a rough mix <----- excuse.. lmao
in this recording the vocals are me [unfortunately.. lmao..] - it's just a guide track for the singer to work with [more excuses.. lmao]
so this should improve when he's sorted his parts out and sent me the audio files
same with the bass.. I'm waiting for me bassist to send me his playage... so right now it's just the Logic EXS24..



got to say that I'm loving the Axe
and loving everything that 7.0 brings with it

I also feel the need to add that I think I'm getting the best guitar tones I've ever had...
nice a fat.. but really organic...
I'm really looking forward to creating my next series of presets...
 
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That sounds great, Clark. No more excuses now... :) ...you sing quite well.
 
haa... thanks for checking out my lil' choon guys....

so... back to bizniz...

you'll all be aware that 7.0 brought many new goodies..
new amps.. new cabs.. fx improvements.. and some tonal polishing...

right now I have my St2 series presets
I love them.. I've recorded with them.. and I'm looking forward to gigging with them..
they're all nicely archived in the preset folder.. so I can't lose or break them...

so... I now have the chance to try out the new toys that came with 7.0...

Riff tone Recap:
Amp Left = 5153Red
Amp Right = VH4 [Das Metall]

the key to a nice fat riffing tone is having two amps panned hard that have similar tonal characteristics..
the important word here is "similar"
they need to be different enough so that the differences generate size and power
but they need to be similar enough so that they combine well and sound 'as one'

so now it's time to go back to my 'amp lab' preset and try various amp / cab combinations..

one extra consideration is that one of my amps will also have the task of taking up the reigns of the solo tone
so 'Amp Right' supports the riffing, 'Amp Left' riffs and solos, so this one needs to be able to offer a pile of silky smooth gain..

the three candidates for 'Amp Right' for me are pretty obvious
5150
5153Red
Herbert ch3

the obvious candidates for 'Amp Left' are
5150
5153Red
51530Blue
Herbert ch3
Herbert ch2+
VH4 ch3
VH4 ch4

7.0 had some interesting effects on Brit Super so I'll try this one too
and I think the Splawn is well worth a look at too

task 1:
try out each of these amps with various cabs to see which I think are [to my ears] the best combinations
part of this evaluation includes finding out how well they can clean up [for my tone morphing functionality]

task 2:
determine which amp / cab combination offers the best soloing tone [to nail 'Amp Left']

task 3:
try 'Amp Left' with all of the 'Amp Right' choices in order to find out which blend best

task 4:
integrate the final amp choices in to the Riff/Solo pretets
 
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nice work on the song clarky, loved the tones and the overall vibe is really good. Will be interested in the final cuts when they're done. whats your bands name anyway? Keep up the fantastic work u are doing. Id like to see your finished presets if/when u are finished. I was wanting to go to 7 but havent as was afraid would mess with sev patches including a couple of the ones u shared which I love. If u say I can without trashing my tones,settings then I will. Should do a backup tho first. Was sorta holding out for axeedit fix. But missing out on all the v7 goodies.
 
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