Axe-fx power amp modelling possibly still not up to par?

[Sidivan]

Jay is, imo, the most knowledgeable and misunderstood person I've ever spoken with online. I picture him with crazy hair, a lab coat, black gloves, and angry eyebrows. Sparks shoot from his keyboard when he types. Behind him is an endless lab of Axe FX, Various pieces of recording hardware and a machine that uses people's PC microphones to monitor every sound in their home and shoot out a full frequency analysis. He's right 99.99999% of the time, but nobody can understand what the hell he's saying because it's too technical for the feeble mind of a common folk. :lol:

Let's see if I can clear up some of the mis-communication here:

I believe what Jay was saying initially to Mortega was that you have to understand what the controls on a tube amp do to equate them to the controls on the Axe FX. They are not 1:1. If you have no experience with a tube amp, you will not be able to accurately describe the tonal differences. This often equates into the user thinking there's something magical about the tube amp that we "mere humans" just haven't discovered yet or don't have the technology to build, which of course is false.

Also, one of his points was that in order to match a tone produced by a tube amp, you must be able to a/b the two while you're tweaking. Yes, you can get the axe fx to sound good without having the amp there. No, you will not be able to properly replicate a specific tone without having the amp there and feeling how the tone responds to your playing style and knob tweaks.

All of that being said, I see Mortega's line of thought too. If the Axe FX is supposed to simulate the real thing, it should be easy to turn some of the knobs on the basic page and replicate the tone. Basically, the question here is "why aren't the default blocks setup to sound like the real amp". The answer is that there are too many ways to amplify the signal coming out of the axe fx for one standard "default" setting to be useful for all people. For my FRFR setup with my wedges, I rarely have to go into the advanced settings. For your 4x12 setup, you'll need to tweak it more. An actual amplifier is made specifically to be heard through a cabinet, so the advanced parameters are already tweaked for that.

 

[chris]

If the Axe FX is supposed to simulate the real thing, it should be easy to turn some of the knobs on the basic page and replicate the tone.

isn't it?

when i got a mesa roadster head, i spent 4 hours one night turning all the knobs on each channel to see how the treble affected the gain and other eq, the most gain i could get out of each channel for the 2x12 lonestar cab i was using that night, etc. sure, i turned it on and then got a decent tone, but my ultimate tone was found with trial and error over months of gigging and nights spent tweaking all the knobs.

same thing with the axe. i could honestly play a gig with a few of my favorite presets and sound amazing. but if i want the sound i hear in my head, then yes i need to turn a bunch of knobs and fiddle around just like i did with a real amp.

i think where a lot of people get lost though is with all the advanced parameters. there are so many options and things to change. on a real amp, much of that is set, and you eventually give in and settle on a particular tone because the transformer is this and the bias is that etc.

on the axe, you can change many more variables, which affect other variables, etc. i honestly don't touch a lot of that stuff, and i find the tone i hear in my head much faster.

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

I'm not reading all 5 pages of speculation. I just read the first post and that sounds a lot like what I was experiencing before I understood the amp block. So here are my tips to get it sounding more realistic.

1.) Modern high gain amps work with lower master settings. Have it at 3-4 and 4.02 is the ultimate maximum.

2.) Lower the sag... I usually have it as low as possible: 0.04. This gives you more dynamics and at least IMO it made the Recto New sound a lot more like the real thing.

3.) I hate depth... they should change the name to boomyness. Whatever it's doing it's wrong IMO.

4.) Presence is essential in metal and you should really tweak it accurately. Close your eyes to get it right since the negative presence will screw up tweaking visually IMO. You'll be surprised how high you'll set it when you're not watching. You can try matching the presence with your favorite recording.

5.) Use stock cabs.

 

[DieSchmalle]

I'm not reading all 5 pages of speculation. I just read the first post and that sounds a lot like what I was experiencing before I understood the amp block. So here are my tips to get it sounding more realistic.

1.) Modern high gain amps work with lower master settings. Have it at 3-4 and 4.02 is the ultimate maximum.

2.) Lower the sag... I usually have it as low as possible: 0.04. This gives you more dynamics and at least IMO it made the Recto New sound a lot more like the real thing.

3.) I hate depth... they should change the name to boomyness. Whatever it's doing it's wrong IMO.

4.) Presence is essential in metal and you should really tweak it accurately. Close your eyes to get it right since the negative presence will screw up tweaking visually IMO. You'll be surprised how high you'll set it when you're not watching. You can try matching the presence with your favorite recording.

5.) Use stock cabs.

I'd add
6.) Use LFres and HFres to tune low and high end frequencies. This can i.e. cure boomy vs flat and dull vs harsh sound. I often like to increase LFres and decrease HFres to get the poweramp sim to the point where I'd say it sounds real.

 

[Tone Seeker]

For my FRFR setup with my wedges, I rarely have to go into the advanced settings. For your 4x12 setup, you'll need to tweak it more. An actual amplifier is made specifically to be heard through a cabinet, so the advanced parameters are already tweaked for that.

That, is an extremely powerful statement (my emphasis on your last sentence)! It may explain a lot of the frustrations that come up on the forum.

Well with modern communication via cell phones, they needed smaller and smaller antennas. So, what they did is make a circuit that basically has the same specs as the piece of wire.

Uhh, no. The frequencies are very high and the wavelengths therefore very short. When you have a short wavelength, you can use a short antenna.

Perhaps what Jase2677 was alluding to is the use of fractal antennae, enabling a long antenna to exist in a small space.

Terry.

 

[guitarmike]

No sag in the pre-amp power supply? It exists in every amp I've ever worked on. The voltage sag in the power supply is a major piece of the "magic".

I think some folks select a slo 100 (or whatever) and expect it to be an exact replica, ie, knobs in the same place = same sound. This is only generally true in the axe and varies depending on what you want or expect from the amp and the amp sim itself.

Anybody play a strat? There all the same right? Of course not. Neither are amps - at least the ones I am familiar with. It is a fact that out of the twenty something Marshalls and numerous fenders I have used over the years, none of them were exactly like another. Not one. Every Marshall sounded different, same flavor, maybe close, but not only did the knobs not line up - there are other variables also; same with fenders. I recently read something about Mark Knopfler getting this great tone in one studio, went to another with the same guitar, same mic, same amp, same engineer and no luck getting that fine distinction that the other recording picked up. I have read that Billy Gibbons checks the humidity and barometric pressure before recording. Yeh, that sounds a bit like Eric Johnson hearing differences between batteries, but, the air the sound moves through will have more to do with tone than wiring, unless the wiring is just idiotic.

Hears the tube amp magic:
Tube amps are dynamic - with natural and unique compression that a player feels. Sound pressure feeding back through a guitar and back into this dynamic amp is a large part of this "magic". And, although complex, it is quantifiable. This really has very little to do with tubes and has a lot to do with 400vdc unregulated power supplies and capacitors.

Then there is the tone of the amp; and it is also dynamic. Any wave form besides a pure sine contains harmonics - create the wave form and create the harmonic - add the harmonic freq.’s at the right proportions and create the wave form. Not as easy as it sounds, especially considering that the wave form of a tube amp is constantly changing - it is dynamic. This dynamic is not strictly a function of tubes, but of the total system, including the speakers and the environment the sound is being produced in. This system, although complicated, is also quantifiable - even if not exactly reproducible at a specific instance.

Tubes do have a unique quality that most solid state devices don't have - nonlinearity. This is probably the least complicated part of the system. It adds to the harmonic content along with the tone controls and other tone shaping elements, all of which are mathematically quantifiable. And, since the majority of these parameters are adjustable in the axe, we can fine tune the nuances.

While transformers can make or break an amp, the parameters that define them are well documented - and adjustable in the digital realm.

The axe fx provides all of the elements, but since it is only part of the system (ie, guitar, power amp in some cases, and speakers?), it really must be tuned to the total system you are using, at least to some degree; because it is only in the complete system that you have a guitar amp - this is true even with a real tube amp. Crappy tubes sound crappy, crappy speakers sound crappy, crappy pick ups, bad cords, old strings, ect....

But, here's the deal. Today, I plugged in a Govt Mule cd, (a live recording of good quality), dialed up an slo100 and with a few tweaks I was getting that lovely Warren Haynes tone with those high dollar Les Paul’s. Well, not exactly, but closer than I ever got with my strat and Marshall; not that the Marshall and a few pedals can't get it, but those single coils are a problem. That’s where the vast tone shaping tools the axe offers come in. I can compensate for the SC's to a fair enough degree and get that flavor ...if I only had his fingers!!!

You may or may not exactly reproduce a particular amp sound, but you can certainly get as close as any real Marshall is to another real Marshall with the axe. I suspect this is true for most of the amp sims. And, although Jay might seem harsh, he is absolutely correct; if you really want to get the most out of the axe you will do good to understand the parameters and their function as to sound and feel. Stuff about variacs and such is just silly. The tools are already there and they are even improving - meaning more accurate and not having to compensate. For example, the blocking filter trick.

I have played many years (even full time for a while) and have been fortunate to play some really good amps - even built a few - amps that are truly "organic", depicting that so called "tube magic". I have also attempted to make the not so great Marshall or super reverb sound like the magic one that so and so owns - with varying degrees of success.

I tell you the truth, the axe fx is organic. Could it be better? The last firmware was better than the one before...imo. The real improvement with the axe will be in further refining its top end - something still not quite right (perfect) with the bright caps, imo. Much better, though.

I would love to have a comment on the presence circuit - it is understood that it does not add high frequency, right? It decreases low frequencies, and adds frequency specific damping ...right? It is a part of the signal fed back 180 degrees out of phase and filtered so that hi freq.’s are eliminated from the feedback signal itself. So, only 180 degrees out of phase lower frequencies are being fed back, therefore reducing lower frequencies and affecting the damping of the low end. Understanding this we can use it to affect the bottom end as well as the top. It becomes a kind of balance - simultaneously effecting bass and treble as well as feel. The amount and frequency of this feedback starts to take on new significance!

I've tried to offer some insight in an attempt to be helpful ...there are many here that inspire that. I am old school and my experience is mostly limited to the older amps. One of these days I’m going to post some sounds.

 

[Smilzo]

I do know that moving a preamp wire inside a mid-to-high gain amp affect the sound. I know that Cliff modeled almost every component, but I don't know how many (and what) interactions was modeled. I do know that real preamp is a mess of resonanting signals... tamed as much as possible. I don't know if Cliff modeled squealing outside human range. Are they part of the signature sound we learn to love?

 

[DNW]

That is completely unrelated to "how to tweak an amp," and I much prefer that you not attempt to explain how you managed to connect the two.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[guitarmike]

I do know that moving a preamp wire inside a mid-to-high gain amp affect the sound.

Yes, wiring does affect sound. This usually has to do with noise and/or signal integrity. I honestly can not think of a single time I have experienced moving a wire and having the 'tone' change.

I do know that real preamp is a mess of resonating signals

Yes, a guitar amp is very dynamic but this is not as much an aspect of “wire” as you might think.

I don't know if Cliff modeled squealing outside human range. Are they part of the signature sound we learn to love?

If a guitar amp has ultra sonic oscillations it is broken and needs to be fixed.

It is true that wiring and layout in general affects the amp. But, this primarily has to do with avoiding problems of noise and oscillation - bad stuff in general. Minimizing these adverse things certainly affects tone in a positive way. Any decently built amp will be built with concern to these aspects. The vast majority of new amps hardly use wire at all - there is mostly circuit board. In amps that use a lot of wire, or any amp really, it is the wires feeding the first tube stage that are most critical to noise and tone degradation. After the first tube stage, the signal is sufficiently amplified to minimize these effects. In the case of an amp such as a matchless, for example, great care is put into the wiring and routing for the very reason of eliminating noise and signal degradation – increasing stability in general. In the older amps, this is typically not the case and with the amp powered up and wiring exposed, simply moving your hand near the input wires can cause all sorts of nastiness. Grabbing an input signal wire can cause the amp to issue great amounts of noise. Very simply, it is picking up noise because it is not shielded. I always use shielded wire in the first input stage in my amps and recommend it even in vintage amps along with a proper power cord. You can keep the old wiring to return the amp to original. In addition, the amp is shielded or should be, when installed in the chassis.

These things, along with certain other components or techniques, can improve the transparency of the amp making it more responsive to the devices and guitar feeding it. In my experience so far, the axe does this almost to a fault. I think this is what throws a lot of people. In order to match my marshall, I have to limit the guitar frequency range, ( ie. filter blocking trick). It seems most accurate to me to say that the axe is not limited by the physical constraints that are inherent in a tube amp (real parts) and therefore this must be added to some degree if you want to match a particular amp. I my experience this can be done in the axe and provides a level of control hereto for unprecedented.

 

[Smilzo]

It is true that wiring and layout in general affects the amp. But, this primarily has to do with avoiding problems of noise and oscillation - bad stuff in general.

Right. The exact words are "put problems away from audible".
A slo100 preamp is an "oscillator" with gain set so low that it does not start oscillating.

The vast majority of new amps hardly use wire at all - there is mostly circuit board.

It doesn't matter if it's a wire or a trace. It has resistance, capacitance, is sensible to hum & noises.

I always use shielded wire in the first input stage in my amps and recommend it even in vintage amps along with a proper power cord.[...]
These things, along with certain other components or techniques, can improve the transparency of the amp making it more responsive to the devices and guitar feeding it. In my experience so far, the axe does this almost to a fault.

Agree. :mrgreen:

I my experience this can be done in the axe and provides a level of control hereto for unprecedented.

I almost agree. I never expect two real amp to sound the same, nor the Axefx to replicate a single amp. But there are subtle interaction that can be measured and introduced in model, letting people reach the wanted result quickly, or with a higher degree of success.

I experienced some people love a little bit of hum modulating the signal. It's a complex shape, I do not know hot to emulate this (the gain stage is inverting). Check a real amp with stiff regulated/poor unregulated heater switch. 50% of people love one setting, 50% love the second one.

And please (all users), don't be "too pickey" with other posts... I know Cliff reading us, and if doable he will update, i.e. passive tonestacke and other stuff he adjusted. He is smart enough to filter mud from gold. This is just a feedback post from users. We don't have to built a model or explain how physics law are involved in tube amps... IMO!

 

[mortega76]

No sag in the pre-amp power supply? It exists in every amp I've ever worked on. The voltage sag in the power supply is a major piece of the "magic".

I think some folks select a slo 100 (or whatever) and expect it to be an exact replica, ie, knobs in the same place = same sound. This is only generally true in the axe and varies depending on what you want or expect from the amp and the amp sim itself.

Anybody play a strat? There all the same right? Of course not. Neither are amps - at least the ones I am familiar with. It is a fact that out of the twenty something Marshalls and numerous fenders I have used over the years, none of them were exactly like another. Not one. Every Marshall sounded different, same flavor, maybe close, but not only did the knobs not line up - there are other variables also; same with fenders. I recently read something about Mark Knopfler getting this great tone in one studio, went to another with the same guitar, same mic, same amp, same engineer and no luck getting that fine distinction that the other recording picked up. I have read that Billy Gibbons checks the humidity and barometric pressure before recording. Yeh, that sounds a bit like Eric Johnson hearing differences between batteries, but, the air the sound moves through will have more to do with tone than wiring, unless the wiring is just idiotic.

Hears the tube amp magic:
Tube amps are dynamic - with natural and unique compression that a player feels. Sound pressure feeding back through a guitar and back into this dynamic amp is a large part of this "magic". And, although complex, it is quantifiable. This really has very little to do with tubes and has a lot to do with 400vdc unregulated power supplies and capacitors.

Then there is the tone of the amp; and it is also dynamic. Any wave form besides a pure sine contains harmonics - create the wave form and create the harmonic - add the harmonic freq.’s at the right proportions and create the wave form. Not as easy as it sounds, especially considering that the wave form of a tube amp is constantly changing - it is dynamic. This dynamic is not strictly a function of tubes, but of the total system, including the speakers and the environment the sound is being produced in. This system, although complicated, is also quantifiable - even if not exactly reproducible at a specific instance.

Tubes do have a unique quality that most solid state devices don't have - nonlinearity. This is probably the least complicated part of the system. It adds to the harmonic content along with the tone controls and other tone shaping elements, all of which are mathematically quantifiable. And, since the majority of these parameters are adjustable in the axe, we can fine tune the nuances.

While transformers can make or break an amp, the parameters that define them are well documented - and adjustable in the digital realm.

The axe fx provides all of the elements, but since it is only part of the system (ie, guitar, power amp in some cases, and speakers?), it really must be tuned to the total system you are using, at least to some degree; because it is only in the complete system that you have a guitar amp - this is true even with a real tube amp. Crappy tubes sound crappy, crappy speakers sound crappy, crappy pick ups, bad cords, old strings, ect....

But, here's the deal. Today, I plugged in a Govt Mule cd, (a live recording of good quality), dialed up an slo100 and with a few tweaks I was getting that lovely Warren Haynes tone with those high dollar Les Paul’s. Well, not exactly, but closer than I ever got with my strat and Marshall; not that the Marshall and a few pedals can't get it, but those single coils are a problem. That’s where the vast tone shaping tools the axe offers come in. I can compensate for the SC's to a fair enough degree and get that flavor ...if I only had his fingers!!!

You may or may not exactly reproduce a particular amp sound, but you can certainly get as close as any real Marshall is to another real Marshall with the axe. I suspect this is true for most of the amp sims. And, although Jay might seem harsh, he is absolutely correct; if you really want to get the most out of the axe you will do good to understand the parameters and their function as to sound and feel. Stuff about variacs and such is just silly. The tools are already there and they are even improving - meaning more accurate and not having to compensate. For example, the blocking filter trick.

I have played many years (even full time for a while) and have been fortunate to play some really good amps - even built a few - amps that are truly "organic", depicting that so called "tube magic". I have also attempted to make the not so great Marshall or super reverb sound like the magic one that so and so owns - with varying degrees of success.

I tell you the truth, the axe fx is organic. Could it be better? The last firmware was better than the one before...imo. The real improvement with the axe will be in further refining its top end - something still not quite right (perfect) with the bright caps, imo. Much better, though.

I would love to have a comment on the presence circuit - it is understood that it does not add high frequency, right? It decreases low frequencies, and adds frequency specific damping ...right? It is a part of the signal fed back 180 degrees out of phase and filtered so that hi freq.’s are eliminated from the feedback signal itself. So, only 180 degrees out of phase lower frequencies are being fed back, therefore reducing lower frequencies and affecting the damping of the low end. Understanding this we can use it to affect the bottom end as well as the top. It becomes a kind of balance - simultaneously effecting bass and treble as well as feel. The amount and frequency of this feedback starts to take on new significance!

I've tried to offer some insight in an attempt to be helpful ...there are many here that inspire that. I am old school and my experience is mostly limited to the older amps. One of these days I’m going to post some sounds.

Wow... great post...

I am aware of the "use your ears" theory... I am aware of the "to sound like Gov't Mule, even if you had his guitar, his pedals, his cables and his amp/cab... you still wouldn't sound like Warren Hayes (great guitarist by the way...) but in our case every high gain amp in the room had this mid range meat and dynamics that the Axe-fx clearly did not have... this is coming not just from me but from the experienced "tube" guys that have more finely tuned "sonic memory" that I do... But even then it was so blatantly obvious that even someone with a short attention span (like me) could immediately tell from the first chord using the same cab, same high end (not that it matters as much) guitar cables and high end guitars... not trying to emulate any kind of recorded tone (no CD's or mp3 players in sight other than my iPhone)... as I said, you could immediately tell a big chunk of goodness was clearly missing.

And as you said... this could all be resolved with an "a-ha" moment from Cliff and a firmware update... it's been done before.

 

[FractalAudio]

I would love to have a comment on the presence circuit - it is understood that it does not add high frequency, right?

The presence "circuit" in the Axe-Fx does the same thing as the presence circuit in an actual tube amp. It decreases the negative feedback in the power amp at high frequencies. The net result is a boost in high frequencies.

The gain of an amp with negative feedback is A/(1 + A*B) where A is the open-loop gain and B is the feedback. The presence circuit makes B a function of frequency (i.e. B -> B(s), actually B(z) in digital land) so there is less feedback at high frequencies. Therefore the gain is greater at those frequencies and approaches the open-loop gain. You can hear this as you increase the Damping since that increases the overall negative feedback. The presence control will have more effect as the Damping is increased.

The Depth control does the same thing but on low frequencies.

 

[MusicManJP6]

^^ How's THAT for an answer!! My mind is now BLOWN. And I feel like a complete noob.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

this could all be resolved with an "a-ha" moment from Cliff and a firmware update...

Or, much more likely, an "a-ha" moment from you on how to get the sound you want from the Axe-Fx. It's in there, and it's up to you to find it....

 

[mortega76]

I would love to have a comment on the presence circuit - it is understood that it does not add high frequency, right?

The presence "circuit" in the Axe-Fx does the same thing as the presence circuit in an actual tube amp. It decreases the negative feedback in the power amp at high frequencies. The net result is a boost in high frequencies.

The gain of an amp with negative feedback is A/(1 + A*B) where A is the open-loop gain and B is the feedback. The presence circuit makes B a function of frequency (i.e. B -> B(s), actually B(z) in digital land) so there is less feedback at high frequencies. Therefore the gain is greater at those frequencies and approaches the open-loop gain. You can hear this as you increase the Damping since that increases the overall negative feedback. The presence control will have more effect as the Damping is increased.

The Depth control does the same thing but on low frequencies.

I love Cliff's post like these... they make me feel like I'm in the bar scene in the movie Good Will Hunting (one of my favorite movies of all time)... Cliff playing the part of Will Hunting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSTqXme9RCk

this could all be resolved with an "a-ha" moment from Cliff and a firmware update...

Or, much more likely, an "a-ha" moment from you on how to get the sound you want from the Axe-Fx. It's in there, and it's up to you to find it....

I knew you were going to say that Jay...

 

[joegold]

I've used two different power amps... a Class H (QSC GX5) and a Class AB (Peavey PV1500)

Try a better power amp.

The Axe is designed to replicate the sound and feel of a tube amp (preamp plus power amp) when it is monitored via equipment that has sufficient fidelity to replicate the signal that the Axe is creating.
You won't get the intended sound and/or feel with lesser equipment.
You may be able to get something usable and/or acceptable, or even perfect for your purposes, with lesser equipment but it won't be as close to what the Axe is designed to do as it could be.

Eg.
My Ultra sounds very good, and feels very good to play, through my Art SLA1 (in bridged mono mode) but a little bit sterile.
But it sounds even more like a real tube amp with my Bryston 2B-LP0-Pro.

 

[mortega76]

I've used two different power amps... a Class H (QSC GX5) and a Class AB (Peavey PV1500)

Try a better power amp.

The Axe is designed to replicate the sound and feel of a tube amp (preamp plus power amp) when it is monitored via equipment that has sufficient fidelity to replicate the signal that the Axe is creating.
You won't get the intended sound and/or feel with lesser equipment.
You may be able to get something usable and/or acceptable, or even perfect for your purposes, with lesser equipment but it won't be as close to what the Axe is designed to do as it could be.

Eg.
My Ultra sounds very good, and feels very good to play, through my Art SLA1 (in bridged mono mode) but a little bit sterile.
But it sounds even more like a real tube amp with my Bryston 2B-LP0-Pro.

Damn... 20 year warranty... wow!

I found this one on eBay for $799 but even then it wouldn't be enough to power one of my cabs... let alone two! I'd have to go get the Bryston 4B-SST2 Stereo Power Amplifier With 300 Watts Per Channel for $4,550.00 or the Bryston 7B-SST2 Mono-block Power Amplifier With 600 Watts Per Channel for $4,595.00... I wonder if they take rubber checks?

 

[Sidivan]

I've used two different power amps... a Class H (QSC GX5) and a Class AB (Peavey PV1500)

Try a better power amp.

The Axe is designed to replicate the sound and feel of a tube amp (preamp plus power amp) when it is monitored via equipment that has sufficient fidelity to replicate the signal that the Axe is creating.
You won't get the intended sound and/or feel with lesser equipment.
You may be able to get something usable and/or acceptable, or even perfect for your purposes, with lesser equipment but it won't be as close to what the Axe is designed to do as it could be.

Eg.
My Ultra sounds very good, and feels very good to play, through my Art SLA1 (in bridged mono mode) but a little bit sterile.
But it sounds even more like a real tube amp with my Bryston 2B-LP0-Pro.

Damn... 20 year warranty... wow!

I found this one on eBay for $799 but even then it wouldn't be enough to power one of my cabs... let alone two! I'd have to go get the Bryston 4B-SST2 Stereo Power Amplifier With 300 Watts Per Channel for $4,550.00 or the Bryston 7B-SST2 Mono-block Power Amplifier With 600 Watts Per Channel for $4,595.00... I wonder if they take rubber checks?

Get 4 atomics and call it good! Then you can even use the cab sims!

 

[mortega76]

I'm still waiting for the Atomic (w/o the kiddie logo) 100 watt stereo tube power amp in black/chrome...

 

[TroyL]

Don't be afraid to experiment with different tone stacks and the position of them in the advanced menu. They can make a HUGE difference.