Axe-Fx III Firmware 22.00 Public Beta #2 (Beta 7)

[Greg Ferguson]

Randomly chiming back in as I previously reported not getting good results with Dyna-Cab. Enjoying some of my recent attempts - Rumble 12L and Rumble 12L + Recto Straight. Ribbon, Dynamic, or both mixed. Finding I have to bump the cab block level up 1dB to match volume with Legacy IRs. Possibly just related to the way I am perceiving the tone rather than actual disconnect in level. Anyway - recommend checking out the Rumble 12L cab even if the related Legacy cabs weren't your cuppa tea. Thanks.

IRs are basically EQ curves, and the Cab block normalizes the individual IR levels to keep the output consistent, so it’s not likely that the Cab level changed.

It’s more likely that a couple small adjustments to the Amp block resulted in a small difference in its output level.

IF the Cab block is changing levels between the Legacy and Dyna-Cab sections then @FractalAudio probably will tweak it.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I was switching to from the channel A legacy cab to the channel A dynacab to compare them and trying to dial in a dynacab version of my favorite legacy cabs, to see if I could make it sound as good or hopefully even better. Every time I'd change anything in the dynacab block (like pan, hi or lo cut, which cabs I had turned on, etc) and would go back to the legacy block it had changed also, and vice versa.

That sounds like the expected behavior because the channels are the same. Use two different channels.

Legacy vs. Dyna-Cab are not different sets of channels, they’re different types of IRs within a single channel.

 

[Bman]

This helps. I'm at Spkr Compress 8.25 and Thump at 8.6. Seems high but sounds good. Just playing around but cranking those two that high seems to smooth out the feel. Of course I want MORE thump...lol. I tried upping the Spkr drive but surprisingly backing it off makes it sound better. Still tweaking. I've also set up a preset blending a legacy with the Dyna. I'm not sure that does much for me that I couldn't do with a Legacy on it's own.

I normally don't have those settings that high either, but I will try playing with those parameters around tonight. I haven't tried blending legacy and dynacab blocks yet either. I was thinking that might sound really great. The DynaCabs have a great sounding clarity to them.

I love the Rumble legacy cabs. I haven't been able to get the same low end thump for the Rumble Dynacabs yet.

I found something that may be helpful. I widened the LF 'Q' curve on the Amp's speaker page. I'm still tweaking and may dial back the Spkr Compress & Thump but THIS parameter change seemed to get me into thicker territory. Of course this is all fluid as we all seem to be trying to figure out this new toy.

Edit: I wasn't able to save this setting until I toggled AutoDyna-Cab Imp. to OFF. I think with it ON the curve auto adjusts to the Dyna CAB selections and modifications to the Q width & Frequency would only be held by turning this off. I thought it was a bug but my 2nd guess makes sense to me.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

This helps. I'm at Spkr Compress 8.25 and Thump at 8.6. Seems high but sounds good. Just playing around but cranking those two that high seems to smooth out the feel. Of course I want MORE thump...lol. I tried upping the Spkr drive but surprisingly backing it off makes it sound better. Still tweaking. I've also set up a preset blending a legacy with the Dyna. I'm not sure that does much for me that I couldn't do with a Legacy on it's own.

Your values are high and are modeling the sound of an amplifier that is putting out more power than the speakers can handle… in other words they'd blow because the speaker coils or cone couldn't handle it. That's fine, but I don't know many players who'd willfully want to blow speakers so it's leaving reality behind. Like Scotty…

"Added Speaker Thump control to Amp block. Speaker Thump models the dynamic, nonlinear behavior of a guitar speaker. A value of 5.0 roughly corresponds to an amplifier running into a speaker rated at the same power as the amplifier, i.e., a 100W amplifier running into a 100W speaker. The reset value is a conservative 2.5 which represents, i.e., a 50W amp running into a 100W speaker. Note that the majority of the response is in the subsonic region and the effect is primarily tactile. Existing presets are not affected and the value will be zero."

"If you are using a real guitar speaker you may want to turn these controls down/off. With an FRFR I would not recommend that as FRFR speakers are not designed to distort like guitar speakers do." [351]

Speaker compression has more written about it but the gist is:

"Aka the “chunka chunka” parameter. It models the interaction of the power amp with the power compression of a virtual speaker. Typical guitar speakers compress between 3 and 6 dB depending upon construction, age, volume, etc. The default value is conservative and yields about 3 dB of compression. Master, Presence, and Depth will interact considerably with Speaker Compression, with higher causing more compression. A gain reduction meter shows the amount of Speaker Compression when this parameter row is selected. Note that this parameter does not reset to its default value when changing the Amp Type."

Running the values that high makes me wonder if you're monitoring at too low of a volume level because they will enhance the sound at low levels. They'll also make the sound very exaggerated at normal stage volume and would be the wrong thing to do with standard guitar cabs only FRFR, so use the settings wisely.

Amp block in the Wiki has good information about all the dynamic and speaker settings.

 

[blaggers]

IRs are basically EQ curves, and the Cab block normalizes the individual IR levels to keep the output consistent, so it’s not likely that the Cab level changed.

It’s more likely that a couple small adjustments to the Amp block resulted in a small difference in its output level.

IF the Cab block is changing levels between the Legacy and Dyna-Cab sections then @FractalAudio probably will tweak it.

I mentioned the same CAB output levels issue with first beta. If you have a block with Legacy in one channel and Dynacab in another and switch between them its easy to see the issue.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I mentioned the same CAB output levels issue with first beta. If you have a block with Legacy in one channel and Dynacab in another and switch between them its easy to see the issue.

I'm sure Cliff will address it. This is a beta release where these things are noticed and get addressed.

 

[trancegodz]

I found something that may be helpful. I widened the LF 'Q' curve on the Amp's speaker page. I'm still tweaking and may dial back the Spkr Compress & Thump but THIS parameter change seemed to get me into thicker territory. Of course this is all fluid as we all seem to be trying to figure out this new toy.

Edit: I wasn't able to save this setting until I toggled AutoDyna-Cab Imp. to OFF. I think with it ON the curve auto adjusts to the Dyna CAB selections and modifications to the Q width & Frequency would only be held by turning this off. I thought it was a bug but my 2nd guess makes sense to me.

View attachment 119145

View attachment 119146

Thanks. I was experimenting with leaving the Auto DynaCab Imp. to Off, and trying all of the different 4x12 speaker Imp. curve options. It gives you a whole lot of subtle other great options. It really expands the possible tonal qualities. All sound good in different ways.

 

[State of Epicicity]

I like the SM7 by itself, but I echo that the SM57 is better for blending with the other mic types.

 

[Bman]

Your values are high and are modeling the sound of an amplifier that is putting out more power than the speakers can handle… in other words they'd blow because the speaker coils or cone couldn't handle it. That's fine, but I don't know many players who'd willfully want to blow speakers so it's leaving reality behind. Like Scotty…

Speaker compression has more written about it but the gist is:


Running the values that high makes me wonder if you're monitoring at too low of a volume level because they will enhance the sound at low levels. They'll also make the sound very exaggerated at normal stage volume and would be the wrong thing to do with standard guitar cabs only FRFR, so use the settings wisely.

Amp block in the Wiki has good information about all the dynamic and speaker settings.

Ahhh yes!! I probably should've stated that up front. I'm dialing in for low volume levels and filling in the oomph. At loud/band levels the Xitone and the Dyna jive just fine. In fact it reacts better than my IRs because the IR seems to clean up the louder I get.

I injured my right ear after buying the AX8 and trying to see if I could replicate the feel/tone of a backline amp un mic'd like we'd do at rehearsal. One night I cranked it as loud as my JMP 50watt Marshall but the volume was focused due to the narrow field and the frequencies weren't rolled off at the top like a guitar cab would be. Plus my 4x12 is pointed at the back of my legs, where the Xitone was in my face. I didn't know it at the time but I soon found out that if I turned it up loud or didn't roll off the high's my right ear distorts like a ripped speaker cone.

I usually have a loud and what I call 'normal' or what you guys call 'quiet' set of presets. You've made me aware that I need to qualify that so we're talking apples to apples because in most cases I'm we probably aren't.

 

[Bman]

Your values are high and are modeling the sound of an amplifier that is putting out more power than the speakers can handle… in other words they'd blow because the speaker coils or cone couldn't handle it. That's fine, but I don't know many players who'd willfully want to blow speakers so it's leaving reality behind. Like Scotty…

Speaker compression has more written about it but the gist is:


Running the values that high makes me wonder if you're monitoring at too low of a volume level because they will enhance the sound at low levels. They'll also make the sound very exaggerated at normal stage volume and would be the wrong thing to do with standard guitar cabs only FRFR, so use the settings wisely.

Amp block in the Wiki has good information about all the dynamic and speaker settings.

@Greg Ferguson Are you saying that the amp is putting out more than the speaker can handle because of the speaker drive, compression and thump values? Those were all goosed, trying to adjust to the dyna IR. In my normal IR they are much lower. But to your 2nd point, I suppose it doesn't matter if what Im hearing sounds good at the low level I'm dialing it in at. Maybe a real test is recording it in a mix determining how it sounds that way. To my ears, all of the presets I've dialed in at low volumes sound good recorded. I've always assumed dialing your tone in loud because of FM is for the purpose of monitoring yourself loud in a mix on stage. My intent is not to get the Hendrix/blown speaker tone...lol. It needs to sound somewhere between Lynch and EVH

 

[guitarcal]

I tried the sm7 for a bit. I think like a few have mentioned before, I like the sm7 by itself, but I like blending the 121 and 57 over just the sm7. I imagine I would dial in an equally good tone either way.

 

[macfly]

Sorry if it's been said, but about how much CPU is DynaCab using over the previous setup? I have an AxeFXIII mk2 and an FM9 turbo, and all of my presets are at/under 70%. Hoping that I won't need to delete stuff?

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Sorry if it's been said, but about how much CPU is DynaCab using over the previous setup? I have an AxeFXIII mk2 and an FM9 turbo, and all of my presets are at/under 70%. Hoping that I won't need to delete stuff?

About 3% currently on the FX3 from my tests. Often they find some optimizations so that might go down.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

@Greg Ferguson Are you saying that the amp is putting out more than the speaker can handle because of the speaker drive, compression and thump values? Those were all goosed, trying to adjust to the dyna IR. In my normal IR they are much lower. But to your 2nd point, I suppose it doesn't matter if what Im hearing sounds good at the low level I'm dialing it in at. Maybe a real test is recording it in a mix determining how it sounds that way. To my ears, all of the presets I've dialed in at low volumes sound good recorded.

Summarizing what Cliff said:

• Thump, is modeling what happens when the speakers can’t handle the real amp’s output electrically.
• In real life, if you run 100 watts into a 50 speaker to get that “thump”, you will damage the speaker.
• In modeled life, you are not going to hurt the modeled speaker making it “thump”, it’ll just sound like it it’s on the edge of dying infinitely.
• Compression is kind of like speaker age, because speakers react to the signal differently when they are new compared to when they’re old.
• If you send your output to a real guitar speaker, turn thump and compression off because, assumedly, you want the sound of the real guitar speaker, not what the modeler says it should be. Leave them on if you’re using FRFR or recording, because FRFR and recording can reproduce the sound correctly.

Basically, in the digital world you can abuse them all day long and it won’t matter. It might not sound good but at least the modeler won’t shoot digital sparks and the speaker won’t leak digital smoke.

I've always assumed dialing your tone in loud because of FM is for the purpose of monitoring yourself loud in a mix on stage.

EQ loud if you’re going to play or reproduce it loud. Our brain doesn’t care what our intention is, it just picks out lows and highs differently at low volume vs. high volume, whether we are playing on stage or listening to the FOH system or on a great stereo at home, or in the elevator or dentist’s chair. If you want it to sound loud at low volume you have to use different EQ settings, but you won’t want those same settings when actually listening at loud volume. It’s our brain getting in the way. Make sense?

 

[macfly]

About 3% currently on the FX3 from my tests. Often they find some optimizations so that might go down.

Perfect! Thanks!

 

[zafreemusic]

Ahhh yes!! I probably should've stated that up front. I'm dialing in for low volume levels and filling in the oomph. At loud/band levels the Xitone and the Dyna jive just fine. In fact it reacts better than my IRs because the IR seems to clean up the louder I get.

Try the "Gain Enhancer" in the Amp block's last page. Shouldn't need more than 1 or so. I usually have it at 0.25-0.75

That will work better for playing at low volumes than cranking the other 2 controls. It basically simulates the natural feedback that happens with guitar-amp at louder volumes. Lower the speaker controls a little and play around with the speaker time constant too.

Add: you can also calculate the speaker thump=(Amp Wattage / Speaker Wattage)*5. Just add the speakers together for 2/4x12. Usually gets me in the ballpark.

 

[trancegodz]

Sorry if it's been said, but about how much CPU is DynaCab using over the previous setup? I have an AxeFXIII mk2 and an FM9 turbo, and all of my presets are at/under 70%. Hoping that I won't need to delete stuff?

It depends on whether you use just one DynaCab, or two, three, or four. The more you use the more CPU it uses.
Using two Dyna-cabs instead of two legacy cabs I had to delete three blocks from my Axe FXIII.

The CPU bounces between these two numbers:
A totally blank preset shows 4.8 CPU.
One Dyna-cab showed 11.4 CPU to 15.2 CPU.
Two Dyna-cabs showed 17.2 CPU to 20.8 CPU
Three Dyna-cabs showed 23 CPU to 26.5 CPU
Four Dyna-cabs showed 28.7 CPU to 32.5 CPU

Methodology:
I started with a totally blank preset, which shows 4.8 CPU.
The numbers above show the CPU with nothing at all in a preset except a cab block.
If you subtract the 4.8 that is there with nothing in the preset it becomes:
One Dyna-cab raised the CPU by 6.6 CPU to 10.4 CPU
Two Dyna-cabs raised the CPU by 12.4 to 16 CPU
Three Dyna-cabs raised the CPU by 18.2 to 21.7 CPU
Four Dyna-cabs raised the CPU by 23.9 to 27.7 CPU

 

[Greg Ferguson]

It depends on whether you use just one DynaCab, or two, three, or four. The more you use the more CPU it uses.
Using two Dyna-cabs instead of two legacy cabs I had to delete three blocks from my Axe FXIII.

The CPU bounces between these two numbers:
A totally blank preset shows 4.8 CPU.
One Dyna-cab showed 11.4 CPU to 15.2 CPU.
Two Dyna-cabs showed 17.2 CPU to 20.8 CPU
Three Dyna-cabs showed 23 CPU to 26.5 CPU
Four Dyna-cabs showed 28.7 CPU to 32.5 CPU

When I tested I was working from a single channel, with three instances of the same IR. It was about 3%.

Possibly, adding additional IRs will add more CPU load.

Describe your methodology and let’s figure out how to estimate the load.

 

[Smittefar]

Compression is kind of like speaker age, because speakers react to the signal differently when they are new compared to when they’re old.

I think you describe speaker compliance here.

Speaker compression and drive are characteristics of the speaker type. A Blue has soft musical saturation and slow compression, while a v30 has much faster compression and a harder drive (but it's most often not really pushed into drive territory)

 

[Sashman]

I just switched on my Axe III and I thought…
Holy Crap my preset never sounded better and I tried to figure out what is the reason and what did I changed the last time? And then I discovered that last time I saved it with the new Dyna Cab!