Axe-Fx II "Quantum" Rev 6.02 Firmware Released

[Ed DeGenaro]

an "authentic mode" would surely benfit the Axe in regards to all the guitarists I hear in conversations being almost scared of the Axe-Fx because (at least that's what some believe) you need to tweak it too much. once you've used it you know that's not really the case, but even then, "authentic" could be a good starting point for amp models you're not familiar with, quick starts etc...

This while conversation is getting kinda silly. ( where's a Frankfurt bar with bad lounge singing when we talk about that lol).

Anyways the reality is this what the intent of Fractal was with the box... Sonically it has been a achieved in guessing. a great tool box.
Side effect making a prominent processor for guys that grew up on zoom, Digitech and line 6 stuff needs one of two things, guys learning how to use their damn tools or a simple mode.

Look around the handwringing over trying to get something identical is nuts.
The incessant arguments why the Axe is better, yet the guys that argue don't even understand that you put a LA2A for tone rather than compression.

Rant over

 

[psst]

Well, the idea was just a "mode", so you'd have the option to use it or not.
Another way would be to have the controls that don't exist in the real amp/pedal in grey (for example), so you know which ones to tweak IF you want to use the amp/pedal interface just like the real one.

Sometimes the beauty of an amp is not (only) the sound, but the simplicity. I sometimes consult the wiki if an amp has a mid control, for example, and I start tweaking as I would in the real amp. That doesn't mean I can't tweak later the controls that are not there in the real one.
I'm sure a lot of people would use it that way.

Not only that, an option to automatically select the "appropiate cab" (I know, I know, just a guide) when you cycle through amps would be really handy (of course you could always change it later).

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Talking about that "authentic mode" makes me wonder why people can't simply reset the block and use the basic controls and not touch the advanced parameters when it's not needed. That's how I use the unit. I've compared several real life counterparts to the amp sims and I'd say the only advanced parameter I use for fine tuning my tones is the speaker page of the amp sim since that varies between different speaker and amp combinations.

"When flying a plane... don't touch every knob in the cockpit."

 

[GuitarNut]

Well, the idea was just a "mode", so you'd have the option to use it or not.
Another way would be to have the controls that don't exist in the real amp/pedal in grey (for example), so you know which ones to tweak IF you want to use the amp/pedal interface just like the real one.

Sometimes the beauty of an amp is not (only) the sound, but the simplicity. I sometimes consult the wiki if an amp has a mid control, for example, and I start tweaking as I would in the real amp. That doesn't mean I can't tweak later the controls that are not there in the real one.
I'm sure a lot of people would use it that way.

Not only that, an option to automatically select the "appropiate cab" (I know, I know, just a guide) when you cycle through amps would be really handy (of course you could always change it later).

Exactly! These features added to Axe-edit or Fractool would be highly convenient for the guys with limited actual experience of the real gear that is modeled. It would a be fantastic addition to the companion software.

There is so much power for going beyond the actual gear that's what drew me to the AxeFX, I am a knob tweaker. Comparing the Fractal modelers to modern high-performance automobiles, many are flexible with an economy "daily driver mode" and the over the top "Tweakers Paradise Beast Mode" at the push of a button. I think its the natural evolution of a superior product.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Well, the idea was just a "mode", so you'd have the option to use it or not.
Another way would be to have the controls that don't exist in the real amp/pedal in grey (for example), so you know which ones to tweak IF you want to use the amp/pedal interface just like the real one.

Sometimes the beauty of an amp is not (only) the sound, but the simplicity. I sometimes consult the wiki if an amp has a mid control, for example, and I start tweaking as I would in the real amp. That doesn't mean I can't tweak later the controls that are not there in the real one.
I'm sure a lot of people would use it that way.

Not only that, an option to automatically select the "appropiate cab" (I know, I know, just a guide) when you cycle through amps would be really handy (of course you could always change it later).

Well, thew thing is that simplicity isa nice thing, that's how Soldano making an Avenger since I bitched for years I wanted single channel SLO.
On the other hand back in the day when I got a Guytron I ended have Andy Marshall at THD change the filtering since I loved how it sounded but hated how sluggish it responded.
I don't touch advance parameters unless I'm hunting for something specific. And then I'm more likely to use one of my go to amp blocks and change stuff rather than even looking at other models.

As for the default cab how you gauge that?
Fryette designs his stuff around Eminence speakers they make for him as is Soldano, I wouldn't use those if you paid be for it.
At THD we used to use a custom Celestion Classic Lead 80s, and then later two different Emmies. Wouldn't use any of them for anything.
I've had so many cabs over the years and what I learned for me is that I'm perfectly fine with Greenies, Golds, Blues, 65s, Red Fangs, Fane Alnicos, 12L, JBL K120, not when I stick a mic in front of it. Then I will take a 57 in any enclosure any time.

As far as I'm concerned there is a reason why back in the late 80s everybody stuck those in their designs, they just work with a 57. And you can set it and forget it. I mean the most esoteric I went was with a Bogner 4x12 I bought in like 93 and they sold it as V30 loaded and I ended up preferring it to anything I compared it to with V30s, and once it was open turned out it had V30 on the bottom and Greenies on top.
Sounded...wait for it...great in the room but I mostly ignored the greenies when close miking.
And we're right back to that illusive in the room nonsense.

As a side note when we voiced the Uni/BiValve and THD Flexi50 me and the Andy who designed the amps were working on it until we both were happy. That entailed setting stuff up so he could listen with the speaker/enclosure he liked and me with my trust 4x12 with Greenie/V30 mix.
His take on a neck pick-up is what a bridge pick up in my world should sound like.
Now just cause my taste differed doesn't mean the ability to get something completely useless TO ME shouldn't be there obviously.
I certainly learned from him, and also his brother who was the guy behind Marshall Time Modulator (check it if you dig delays) and Ensoniq PARIS. And one of the biggest things I took away...and muddled into my own personal take is...

There is a feedback loop between the played (more precisely the pickups and ears) and the source whether that's speakers or monitors.
And if that's taken into account all will be fine, secondly...
An amp was intended to amplify a signal literally to simply make a guitar louder. Marshall's big slogan used to be they won't distort. LOL
Now, with the advent of cascaded gain staged be it in amps or by using OD pedals, better yet stacking OD pedals takes some experimenting. What goes where...why do I dig it.
But I digress why are some amps good pedal platforms? Cause unlike say a Recto they don't have massive amounts of gain i.e. compression and already limited band width, so you get to shape it with the pedals.
And you have many of those options with the Axe.

As I said some place else before if some one figured out of letting me customise the content over the harmonics, I'll be stoked. Cause everything else is literally merely the ADSR, EQ and gain structure...sonically.

Well that got long.

 

[VegaBaby]

Anyways the reality is this what the intent of Fractal was with the box... Sonically it has been a achieved in guessing. a great tool box.
Side effect making a prominent processor for guys that grew up on zoom, Digitech and line 6 stuff needs one of two things, guys learning how to use their damn tools or a simple mode.

Look around the handwringing over trying to get something identical is nuts.
The incessant arguments why the Axe is better, yet the guys that argue don't even understand that you put a LA2A for tone rather than compression.

I couldn't agree more. I use the advanced stuff more than probably healthy and it's definitely one of the things that keeps the Axe far in front of other products, but in the end we're just talking about a "mode" here. not everyone is fluent in amp design and eventhough IMHO there's no excuse for not reading the manual (and judging by posts and questions, that seems to be the trend ), an "authentic mode" might actually add to an already super powerful unit.

 

[psst]

As for the default cab how you gauge that?

Fractal's criteria.
If I choose a Twin Reverb amp, the cab would change (if the option to "automate cab change" is set) to the 2x12 twin cabinet impulse that Fractal chooses as a cool sounding one and "correct" for that amp. Of course I could then go to the cab and change it, but I would have a very fast starting point to check if I like the amp.

Oh, and I was NOT talking about advanced controls, but REGULAR amp controls. Just if the "AUTHENTIC MODE" option is ON, for example if an amp doesn't have MASTER vol, don't show it (or show it in grey), or if it doesn't have MIDs control, don't show it. I usually go to the wiki to check how is the real amp to know which controls I would tweak. Of course, after that I can do whatever I want and tweak controls that aren't there. But it's a good starting point, saves a lot of time and I'm sure would be used by LOTS of users.


Just to clarify: I'm talking about an OPTION, which, if implemented, you could use it or not. So if you don't like it, no problem.

 

[yek]

I'm been helping a couple of friends with their recently acquired AX8s. One is a bass player and one has not a lot of experience with things like speaker types, effects in general, series vs parallel setups, effects loops, EQ-ing, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
I realized that these devices must be so daunting for those who do not have a lot of experience with this kind of gear.
Any help would be welcome, for example, as in an "EASY" mode.

 

[psst]

Well, I do have a lot of experience with it (I've had all fractal products since the ULTRA) and this options would be very handy for me too.
And would save time checking wikis and stuff.
Of course anything is valid, and you use your ears, but it's a very good starting point, and faster to get there.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

I agree that an simplified interface would be helpful. Even just a color coded display in axe edit would work (advanced controls red possibly) Maybe Fracpad??

 

[Vintagero]

The "Easy/Simple Mode" could be great at some point, but if you need to have all the options while you´re making new sounds, you can make it "easier" over time, but it can not be "simpler". Or we´ll all go back to issues like: "I can´t find a good sound moving all these 3 buttons"... (IMHO of course)

 

[StickMan]

I think that, for amp blocks, the "Basic" tab in Axe Edit is pretty much the "easy" mode. Everything there, except for "Depth" and "Saturation" are pretty much the same as what you'd find on the front of many amps. Default values are set to sane, typical usage for the amp model and some of the controls like "Overdrive" and "High Cut" only appear when appropriate.

And as many people have said, especially with the latest FW versions, you really don't need to go off the "Basic" tab to dial in a really awesome sound.

But I did see a post on another forum from a couple years back where someone said that they had an AxeFX, and then sold it after a couple of days because he couldn't see himself spending weeks sitting in a room tweaking it to get a good tone. He actually sounded really angry about it. I'm not sure that I "get" someone who drops $2K+ on a piece of equipment, then decides that it's too complicated for them, and makes that determination in two days, but I can see how the AxeFX has become seen as a techies only tool.

Personally, I too probably spend too much time goofing around with the advanced options. Too much time because I'm afraid that I'm taking the models and tweaking them to sound more like what I like, and the end result is that all of my patches are getting squeezed into the same sound.

 

[psst]

Probably it's a language problem (from me, I'm sure, I'm from Spain). You are not understanding.
I surrender.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Probably it's a language problem (from me, I'm sure, I'm from Spain). You are not understanding.
I surrender.

Don't think that is the issue. Look I get what you like, but on the other hand I like that the basic settings except dual volumes, gain controls are the same. I like that if the amp doesn't have a mid control i still have one were I'm expecting it. That does not belong to an advanced page IMO...for example.

 

[psst]

That's absolutely perfect. So in the general system settings, under "just real amp controls", you will set it to "NO", and the (for example) amps with MID control show MID control even though that actual amp has no MID control.
It's just a menu option.

I totally understand you want it that way.
In my case, I want to flip through the amps and if I want to try for example a 5F1 Tweed and I want to (at least try first) why is that amp so iconic LIKE THAT, and I don't want to have the option of bass, mid and treble (it doesn't have any), I want to get used to it, play with my guitar, my volume control, the drive knob and find what I know it's there.
Since I don't know every amp I have to wiki for it, see how is it in real etc.

Of course nothing is "as is", and you can tweak things that are not there in the physical amp, I do it and I will keep on doing it, but most of the times I like to find first the true thing, and being the Axe so good replicating it, I think it's really worthy to try the "real thing" (modeled really well in this case).

That thing and the option to automatically select the "right" cab impulse (I know this is very subjective, but at least as a starting point without wiki-ing it, and of course you can change it later) would be really really handy for me (and I'm sure for many others) to try sounds.

 

[Manny Fufish]

We have heard a lot about dialing in the amps, so we should remember that this came up (again) after a discussion of how some effects (the new Timmy pedal in this case) use AxeFX controllers to represent the knob values of that effect. Sometimes these controllers map naturally, like gain, and level, and sometimes they are not obvious because they have unique knobs (like swirl, or rumble, or mod) that need to be mapped to some controller of the Axe. In this case, it would be good to see the actual knobs on the box and spin them to see what they do.

As always, just my $.02

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

That's absolutely perfect. So in the general system settings, under "just real amp controls", you will set it to "NO", and the (for example) amps with MID control show MID control even though that actual amp has no MID control.
It's just a menu option.

Wait....you're talking in Axe-Edit you mean? Sure whatever, I thought you meant on the Axe.

 

[psst]

Wait....you're talking in Axe-Edit you mean? Sure whatever, I thought you meant on the Axe.

I edited my message to explain a little more.
Well, AxeEdit would be nice but for me it would be great in both. If you put that global setting to NO, it would show the controls as you have it now, if set to YES, the controls that are not in a particular amp would not show.

 

[psst]

We have heard a lot about dialing in the amps, so we should remember that this came up (again) after a discussion of how some effects (the new Timmy pedal in this case) use AxeFX controllers to represent the knob values of that effect. Sometimes these controllers map naturally, like gain, and level, and sometimes they are not obvious because they have unique knobs (like swirl, or rumble, or mod) that need to be mapped to some controller of the Axe. In this case, it would be good to see the actual knobs on the box and spin them to see what they do.

As always, just my $.02

Exactly, it's actually an extended (and for me, perfect) version of the idea that I was explaining.

 

[unix-guy]

Talking about that "authentic mode" makes me wonder why people can't simply reset the block and use the basic controls and not touch the advanced parameters when it's not needed. That's how I use the unit. I've compared several real life counterparts to the amp sims and I'd say the only advanced parameter I use for fine tuning my tones is the speaker page of the amp sim since that varies between different speaker and amp combinations.

"When flying a plane... don't touch every knob in the cockpit."

Mikko - here is the problem... even the "basic" page is not "authentic" - we (or at least I) are talking about indicating what controls exist on a given piece of gear, not advanced parameters.

Some amp models, for example, have no MID control... it would be nice to know that without having to dig thru the wiki. Another amp (I forget which) has only a "TONE" control and on the model, this is mapped to the "TREBLE" knob. Again, would be nice to know that without having to go searching.

The recent addition of the Timmy Drive model shows another example, where a user that owns a real Timmy was trying to get the controls mapped. Cliff said "set the Low Cut all the way off and the Treble all the way on to be 'flat'". Also, I believe the Ruckus Drive model has a similar thing with the Treble being a "high cut"...

How is anyone supposed to be aware of those things? They are not in the manual in most cases (which is severely outdated) and the average user is NOT scouring the forum or wiki to eek out these details.

I am a tech guy, I am a gear guy - I am not afraid of all the options although there are many advanced ones I choose not to use. I am at the same time still sometimes overwhelmed by the possibilities!

Imagine what a non-technical person who isn't really a gear fiend is going to feel when they plug in and need to dial in tones? I have a friend who recently bought in whole-hog (Axe Fx, MFC-101, FRFR) after hearing my rig. He is a really great musician that can get great tones on a traditional rig... he is getting by, but the amount of stuff he doesn't know or is not up to date on is staggering because he is NOT a technical person and he doesn't use the internet much.

Anyway, I know there is a tradeoff... my friend has an HD500X and I was helping him do some tone crafting the other day. In his Chorus block, he can choose "Dimension". He then has controls over 4 on/off switches and Mix. Period... pretty limited! Now, if that is authentically what that Chorus model offers, at least I can say "well, this is what the original options were". If I wanted to go deeper on the POD I am out of luck... but I know the Axe Fx gives me a lot more options to tweak the Dimension chorus.

So, while I would like the ability to easily know what is "authentic" I don't want to be locked in to it!