Axe Fx II, It's not Hype (IMO)

[6L6C]

What is the Model of the JBL cabs that Cliff and Co. chose to demo his AXE-II??

Not really sure there was allot of traffic going in and out of the room, it’s amazing I got that photo without anyone in front of it.

All three of us were disappointed. This was the "ultimate" setting for a presentation since, I assume, it was presented in an optimum way.

The problem with the presentation I felt, someone would sit down with their guitar and start to request settings and to some extent that’s fine (people request strange stuff sometimes). Something I would have liked to seen is take say 5 or so of the most popular models and tweak them out for each system before the show, real cab, Atomics, JBL. Give a presentation 15 min would be good (Public hands off) with each system and use one guitar player, and then after the presentation let everybody pile in for the free for all, for about 45 min and then restart the process. But this would be hard to do under the conditions since the room could really only hold about six people.
I did notice present owners of the AF could dial in (or request) very quickly and get great sounds and with the help of Fractal use the new feature and get better results.
A little background on myself 35 year player of guitar, many tube amp’s through the years, called in to consult other guitarist on their rigs (for my ears). Electronics, very lite but basic stuff set tube bias and so on (basically enough to be dangerous). Built a few rigs for people.

It was flat and thin.

Even if you hated it, Come on!
But there again if the player at the time was requesting that, it can do that too.


Not everything is 100%, and not everybody is going to like the same thing. The good news since you don’t like the unit that’s a unit that will end up in somebody else’s hands that wants one. There was allot of cool gear at the show for sure!

What is under that cloth? Anyone took apeak.
Maybe another misterious SS amp like last year LOL
Did anyone see Tom King?

No Tom was not there this year. Pretty sure it was another power amp under the cloth but not a mystery item, just keeping the AF II scratch free and of course it is the center of attention

 

[NY Guitarist]

All three of us were disappointed. This was the "ultimate" setting for a presentation since, I assume, it was presented in an optimum way. Yes, this is a state of the art device. Yes, the technological strides made are very impressive. But you can really hear the difference between this and the real thing.

What do you mean by "real thing"? I'm not trying to be an azz here, but want to get a better idea of the reference. I know when we're in the studio what's coming through the monitors is not experienced the same way as being in the room with amp. We're always trying to "remove the control room window" when we record. Does the Axe seem more like a recording of an amp? Is that what you're saying?

Also, the effects lacked depth and sounded thin when compared to the Eventide. It was flat and thin. Lots of digital 'stuff' in there. I wonder if it would have sounded better without the modeling and just the effects. (The Eventide does not do amp modeling.)

I do find the comparison to the Eventide odd, but I assume it was just a comparison of the effects in both units. If so, I can somewhat understand the conclusion. I have always preferred separate high-end effects units to those in all-in-one guitar processors, but that is in context of a recording studio. Just keep in mind most units cost more than the Axe and are only effects units.

But, there are advantages. If you are into certain types of music, this does a very nice job. And let's face it, the reduced weight is a big plus. If you do it right, you can cut tons of wires and carry lots less. That reduces potential mishaps during gigs. And, if you need the sound of many types of amps, this could be adequate. And I wonder whether the phenomenon of masking makes my criticisms moot.

For gigging musicians the Axe seems like a great way to go, although there is always the issue of amplification, whether you bring your own or rely on what sound system is there and who is running it. By masking, I assume you mean the masking effects of the other instruments in a live situation.

I know many people may disagree with me, and perhaps vehemently. Hey, if you like it, buy it. I merely suggest that you hear it first. Do not listen to recordings. Hear it for yourself.

As someone who has not had the opportunity to use the Axe-Fx yet I'm open to all feedback and opinion. I'm really mostly interested in the amp/cab models for recording, so listening to recordings is useful.

 

[Zmonk]

Italo? LOL

Nice try.....................

For those who didn't get this reference, you may want to give this thread a quick once over, http://forum.fractalaudio.com/wish-list/36992-education-request.html

 

[Richard_G]

(...) a set of JBL’s monitors as you can see in the photo (...)

Could it be the JBL SRX712M? (link: http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/genera...?PId=113&MId=3)

 

[Cooper Carter]

I could be considered biased.

I can't help but notice that this could be a pun on your name 6L6. Are your tubes biased? ;-)

 

[kenjf]

Response

You guys are feeding a troll here....

OK guys, look: (And to everyone responding to my post)

Point 1: I said this is good for some guys. And I was polite. Why aren't you?
2: You are violating your own rules of interaction here. I'm being nice and just voicing my opinion, and to dismiss me in this manner is immature and more importantly, non-productive.
3: I did not mean Eventide when I said "the real thing". I meant a comparison to the equipment being simulated.
4: I respect your credentials. Unfortunately, you don't know mine. You are not the only one with ears or credentials (I have toured as far away as Japan playing music), and it's OK to disagree. Maybe we're listening for different things in this equipment. As I said, I am not a guitarist. In engineering, let's just say that my friends are chairmen of IEEE groups, ie, Communications, and I have participated in some ground breaking work in the digital communications realm. If you don't know what the IEEE is, look it up. So I'm not a schlub. Oh, and by the way: For the guy who called me an 8th grader, FYI: I have taught 8th graders, and yes, I am still young at heart. ;=)
5: I was very open minded and looking forward to a fantastic piece of equipment. As a Fractal demo, I assumed this would be under optimal conditions. So if it doesn't sound good due to the setup, whose fault is it?
6: Fact is, I certainly could not do this type of engineering myself. But the fact also remains that it is not good enough for my ears. But it's getting closer and the prospects for the future are exciting!
7: I was hoping to have an open discussion of the flaws I heard. Guess this is a forum for fanatics, not intelligent individuals who would like to explore some discussion points. Sorry to discover this.

 

[kenjf]

What do you mean by "real thing"? I'm not trying to be an azz here, but want to get a better idea of the reference. I know when we're in the studio what's coming through the monitors is not experienced the same way as being in the room with amp. We're always trying to "remove the control room window" when we record. Does the Axe seem more like a recording of an amp? Is that what you're saying?





I do find the comparison to the Eventide odd, but I assume it was just a comparison of the effects in both units. If so, I can somewhat understand the conclusion. I have always preferred separate high-end effects units to those in all-in-one guitar processors, but that is in context of a recording studio. Just keep in mind most units cost more than the Axe and are only effects units.





For gigging musicians the Axe seems like a great way to go, although there is always the issue of amplification, whether you bring your own or rely on what sound system is there and who is running it. By masking, I assume you mean the masking effects of the other instruments in a live situation.





As someone who has not had the opportunity to use the Axe-Fx yet I'm open to all feedback and opinion. I'm really mostly interested in the amp/cab models for recording, so listening to recordings is useful.

"Real thing" = the actual cabinet/amp combo being simulated.

Yes, the eventide was an effects only evaluation. Thought was if you really like one particular amp/speaker combo, the Eventide might be a better way to go. I think they have implemented their hardware/software/algorithms better in the effects section than Fractal.

 

[6L6C]

I can't help but notice that this could be a pun on your name 6L6. Are your tubes biased? ;-)

YES THEY ARE!! Except my Mesa's which run a little on the cool side.

I did not even notice till you pointed that out.

 

[6L6C]

Could it be the JBL SRX712M? (link: http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/genera...?PId=113&MId=3)

Hey Richard;

Really not sure I would be lying if I told you it was model XX.

 

[youngmic]

OK guys, look: (And to everyone responding to my post)

Point 1: I said this is good for some guys. And I was polite. Why aren't you?
2: You are violating your own rules of interaction here. I'm being nice and just voicing my opinion, and to dismiss me in this manner is immature and more importantly, non-productive.
3: I did not mean Eventide when I said "the real thing". I meant a comparison to the equipment being simulated.
4: I respect your credentials. Unfortunately, you don't know mine. You are not the only one with ears or credentials (I have toured as far away as Japan playing music), and it's OK to disagree. Maybe we're listening for different things in this equipment. As I said, I am not a guitarist. In engineering, let's just say that my friends are chairmen of IEEE groups, ie, Communications, and I have participated in some ground breaking work in the digital communications realm. If you don't know what the IEEE is, look it up. So I'm not a schlub. Oh, and by the way: For the guy who called me an 8th grader, FYI: I have taught 8th graders, and yes, I am still young at heart. ;=)
5: I was very open minded and looking forward to a fantastic piece of equipment. As a Fractal demo, I assumed this would be under optimal conditions. So if it doesn't sound good due to the setup, whose fault is it?
6: Fact is, I certainly could not do this type of engineering myself. But the fact also remains that it is not good enough for my ears. But it's getting closer and the prospects for the future are exciting!
7: I was hoping to have an open discussion of the flaws I heard. Guess this is a forum for fanatics, not intelligent individuals who would like to explore some discussion points. Sorry to discover this.

Hmm, OK. I'm interested in the specifics. Can you elaborate on the questions I posed earlier?

 

[kenjf]

I understand that. What I am saying is that some simulations or recordings cannot capture the live sound. For example, if you think that listening to a B3 and Leslie speaker have EVER been equaled in recording, then there's really no conversation to have. EX: Dr. Lonnie Smith, Too Damn Hot, THE premier B3 player of the McDuff school has fantastic recordings, however, as former B3 owner, they do not sound the same as a live Leslie. Don't know why. But it's not the same.

 

[NY Guitarist]

7: I was hoping to have an open discussion of the flaws I heard. Guess this is a forum for fanatics, not intelligent individuals who would like to explore some discussion points. Sorry to discover this.

I was hoping to do the same. I've been around the block enough times to understand that open-minded intelligent discussion gets far more accomplished than people automatically taking defensive/offensive positions and thinking that will be contructive.

I respect everyone's experience and opinion, but I asked a few questions because some of what you wrote was unclear to me. It is all about communicating.

Thanks for your review and follow-up response. Hang in there.

 

[youngmic]

I understand that. What I am saying is that some simulations or recordings cannot capture the live sound. For example, if you think that listening to a B3 and Leslie speaker have EVER been equaled in recording, then there's really no conversation to have. EX: Dr. Lonnie Smith, Too Damn Hot, THE premier B3 player of the McDuff school has fantastic recordings, however, as former B3 owner, they do not sound the same as a live Leslie. Don't know why. But it's not the same.

Of course. Hence the questions I posed. In them were represented several discussion points very worthy of conversation. There are many nuances to this conversation. Flexibility introduces the significant probability of misalignment to expectations. Detail is important to understand your perspective.

Furthermore, there is a marked inconsistency in your response above. Your mention of "the equivalent eventide device" played prominently in your post. Your latest response comes from a completely different paradigm.

I am interested in your perspective and am willing to have a respectful exchange. However, I am beginning to wonder...

Frankly, based on your responses following your initial post, it seems that Jay is likely correct. I'm fairly new to heavy participation in forums so I may be easily duped. So perhaps I should just ask you straight out: do you really have something productive to contribute to our understanding of this product or are you just looking to generate controversy?

 

[6L6C]

kenjf

What did you think of my idea for a different presentation, I'm just curios.
I ask because I do feel the conditions were not optimal.
However being a current user of the AF Standard I was hearing things with the new unit that I really like.
That said, I cant hit that "send payment" fast enough.

John

 

[kenjf]

Of course. Hence the questions I posed. In them were represented several discussion points very worthy of conversation. There are many nuances to this conversation. Flexibility introduces the significant probability of misalignment to expectations. Detail is important to understand your perspective.

Furthermore, there is a marked inconsistency in your response above. Your mention of "the equivalent eventide device" played prominently in your post. Your latest response comes from a completely different paradigm.

I am interested in your perspective and am willing to have a respectful exchange. However, I am beginning to wonder...

Frankly, based on your responses following your initial post, it seems that Jay is likely correct. I'm fairly new to heavy participation in forums so I may be easily duped. So perhaps I should just ask you straight out: do you really have something productive to contribute to our understanding of this product or are you just looking to generate controversy?

First, I apologize for being unclear. It's difficult to communicate clearly and succinctly in a forum because I wanted to minimize my words.

I am definitely not trying to generate controversy. My friend was interested in this device, and quite frankly, so was I. I have extensively used harmonizers and effects devices with my sax since 1990, and am always looking for new ways to create. I am very much aware that (aside from Joshua Redmond,) sax players have been in the Dark Ages electronically. All I was trying to do was share my impressions. And many responses had some good feedback as to why I may have felt this way. It is not in my nature to try to provoke a negative discussion.

Anyway, enough of this thread. There are more interesting things to read elsewhere on this site. There are also external sites with discussions about the Axe and other devices. Thanks for listening to my response. Appreciate it.

 

[youngmic]

First, I apologize for being unclear. It's difficult to communicate clearly and succinctly in a forum because I wanted to minimize my words.

I am definitely not trying to generate controversy. My friend was interested in this device, and quite frankly, so was I. I have extensively used harmonizers and effects devices with my sax since 1990, and am always looking for new ways to create. I am very much aware that (aside from Joshua Redmond,) sax players have been in the Dark Ages electronically. All I was trying to do was share my impressions. And many responses had some good feedback as to why I may have felt this way. It is not in my nature to try to provoke a negative discussion.

Anyway, enough of this thread. There are more interesting things to read elsewhere on this site. There are also external sites with discussions about the Axe and other devices. Thanks for listening to my response. Appreciate it.

I've heard some pretty cool examples of brass and woodwinds through effects. Seems like I remember hearing Michael Brecker play a bass clarinet with a wah pedal that made you listen twice. Ever hear Cuong Vu with the Pat Metheny group use delays with his trumpet? Very cool. And in a completely different genre, Jon Hassel using early harmonizers and other effects in collaboration with Brian Eno. I really liked that stuff.

That actually provides some really good context. Thanks.

And btw, thanks for your response as well.

Mike

 

[levipeto]

I am glad he didn't like it. Better chance to get one.

 

[Xrocker]

Exactly. I don't think anyone should like it until I get mine!

 

[mwc2112]

From what I understand, the amp show for Fractal pretty much consisted of a lot of people trying out the unit. So... did anybody actually delve deep into the effects or was most everybody interested in the amp modeling? I've heard an Eclipse side-by-side with a 1st generation AxeFX before and they were both stellar... certainly no lack of depth from either unit. My guess is that the effects weren't what was really on display at the amp show but rather it was the amp modeling. I think the they needed to hear it in a different context to make that kind of judgement about the effects... not to say they would necessarily change their mind, but if effects were an afterthought during the amp show, then it's certainly an unfair comparison.

 

[tabqwerty]

This is tangential, but would the Axe II be able to use its effects on VSTis in the same FX chain (I'm pretty sure POD Farm allows you to do this)? This question came to mind because of the brass and wind players' effects and owning plenty of sample libraries consisting those instruments. Being able to control the Axe's effects through a MIDI foot controller and also the MIDI wind / keyboard controller in conjunction would be incredible.