AX8 Price Point - At what price do you get upset?

Ok I went back and found the official explanation on why the FX8 costs as much to manufacture as the AX8. So now my question is : If I'm not using the 4 cable method but rather just plugging into the front of a real amp, does the FX8 still offer any sound quality advantage over the AX8?

The AX8 would be beneficial for home use, where I want to record and practice without blasting a real amp. But live, I'm still using a real amp. But I just run pedals in front of a clean amp. So could I just bypass the AX8 amp/cab blocks and run into the front of a real amp and achieve the same sound quality as doing the same with the FX8?
 
JTroska said:
Ok I went back and found the official explanation on why the FX8 costs as much to manufacture as the AX8. So now my question is : If I'm not using the 4 cable method but rather just plugging into the front of a real amp, does the FX8 still offer any sound quality advantage over the AX8?

The AX8 would be beneficial for home use, where I want to record and practice without blasting a real amp. But live, I'm still using a real amp. But I just run pedals in front of a clean amp. So could I just bypass the AX8 amp/cab blocks and run into the front of a real amp and achieve the same sound quality as doing the same with the FX8?
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I'd venture a guess that in your particular situation you'd be best off with the AX8. The FX8 does have improved I/O and is more transparent and less noisy, but if you're only going into it and out to the amp you probably wouldn't get as much benefit from that as you would in having something that is multi-purpose. It may be marginally better than the AX8 on paper used like that, but I doubt it would make a huge difference in actual use. The real benefit of the FX8 is for people who always use an amp and want the cleanest, most transparent tone available for 4 cable method, and you seem to need more of a multi-purpose workhorse.
 
Robboman said:
They're going to sell at least 100 AX8 for every FX8 going forward. Unless they drop the price on FX8. It's just a crazy hell of a lot more value for an extra 50 bucks. I could see them perhaps just discontinuing the FX8. Afterall, amp channel switching is no biggie, and the fx loop is there.

We knew AX8 was coming before we bought our FX8.. So we could have just waited for all the AX8 details and price reveal and THEN decide. But then we'd have had to exist all these months without FX8. So, no I'm not upset. And I'm thrilled that FAS is going to compete hard against Helix.. Very exciting!
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AMP channel switching is no biggie??? LOL Maybe not for you, but I NEED the channel switching. I don't need the modelling. Proving that your opinion is not everyone's opinion. I doubt it'll be 10-1 sales. People with good tube amps will buy FX8 over AX8, every day.
 
Rex said:
Die-hard tube-amp lovers will continue to buy and use the FX8. They want a great effects box that does channel switching and slays at low-noise 4CM.
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This. Big time this. There are MANY people that don't want a modelling amp!
 
I want both which is why I'm keeping my fx8 and likely buying an ax8 as well. If you run them together it will likely be near as powerful as the xl+
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
there are no controls on the Micro DI other than on/off, so remember you won't have the EQ/Tone shaping of even a simple clean channel amp. you'll have to EQ using the tools in the Drive block or some other EQ method. since you are recording, you could probably do a lot in post.

but just keep that in mind with that type of amp/cab sim pedal.
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One more question for you Chris. How to get best result for recording in studio with FX8? To do a lot in post means I should doing with a mic'd real amp thru the send and return right? Thanks again:)
 
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Genghis said:
I'd venture a guess that in your particular situation you'd be best off with the AX8. The FX8 does have improved I/O and is more transparent and less noisy, but if you're only going into it and out to the amp you probably wouldn't get as much benefit from that as you would in having something that is multi-purpose. It may be marginally better than the AX8 on paper used like that, but I doubt it would make a huge difference in actual use. The real benefit of the FX8 is for people who always use an amp and want the cleanest, most transparent tone available for 4 cable method, and you seem to need more of a multi-purpose workhorse.
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That's what I'm thinking too. Thanks.

Hmmm... Now I'm wondering what the output section of the AX8 will be like. Since it uses the grid system, it may be possible to route a Cab Simulated line to FOH and a straight non-simulated line to my little clean combo amp for monitoring.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
I want both which is why I'm keeping my fx8 and likely buying an ax8 as well. If you run them together it will likely be near as powerful as the xl+
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Unless the AX8 sounds as good in 4cm as my FX8 (which it shouldn't by all accounts so far), my FX8 isn't going anywhere.

I'm trying to envision the size and weight of a pedalboard with an AX8 and an FX8 plus up to 4 expression pedals. I'm now picturing a separate pedalboard for each. :) However, if the AX8 can run an amp and cab or ir plus 8-10 effects, I don't see the need to use both together though it could be done. Not sure what the looper capabilities are on the AX8, but I don't loop with my electric gear; only acoustic.
 
FractalAudio said:
The AX-8 will not work as well as the FX-8 in 4CM. It is not designed for that. It will do 4CM, as will most digital processors but the FX-8 is the only processor of which I'm aware that is truly optimized for 4CM. That optimization requires a lot of expensive circuitry. The op-amps used are very expensive and there's dozens of them just to support the 4CM stuff. Add to that relays for true bypass, metal film capacitors, etc., etc., and you end up with an expensive design.
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Thanks Cliff for this feel-good paragraph for us early FX8 buyers! :)

Still, the real question is, how does AX8 actually sound (with real amp) compared to FX8? Can't wait for someone to directly A/B the AX8 against the FX8 to hear to what extent all this expensive optimization translates to real audible benefit.

FWIW.. I'm not using the relays for amp-channel switching, and I rarely bypass the FX8 to experience 'true-bypass'.. other than to show off how little it changes since the signal path is so quiet and clean. I do use 4CM.

I'd probably choose AX8 over FX8 given the choice right now. AX8 (for FX) with my amps for live use, AX8 (plus amp models and IRs) for studio use, and then I could sell off my Axe-Fx II.
 
brads4 said:
AMP channel switching is no biggie??? LOL Maybe not for you, but I NEED the channel switching. I don't need the modelling. Proving that your opinion is not everyone's opinion. I doubt it'll be 10-1 sales. People with good tube amps will buy FX8 over AX8, every day.
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..but you can just keep using the footswitch that came with your amp for channel switching. That's why I say no biggie, but of course IMO.

FWIW.. for some reason I had a bunch of crazy noise when I tried to cable FX8 relay output to my amp footswitch input. It functioned, but it's way quieter with my old footswitch. Maybe just my cabling...
 
FullReverse said:
I'm not mad, but like others have stated, FX8 sales are going to go by the wayside with an AX8 price that low. I know, I know.. different applications, blah blah blah.. but that's not going to stop MOST people from just buying the AX8 for $50 bucks more. You can buy a normal Ferrari, or for $50 more, you can buy a Ferrari that does what the first one does but can also fly. I'd buy the flying Ferrari.

I'm just VERY concerned that Fractals FX8 love is going to diminish along with its sales. that would be horse shit considering it was JUST released.

Also, is the FX8 just way over priced or are they just not going to make any money on the AX8? Crazy.
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I think that the software / firmware updates to the AX8 will carry over to the FX8 for the effects side in most cases. So both should benefit from the same work.

Ultimately I don't think the FX8 is overpriced. We got a lot for $1349 when compared to a board full of high quality pedals. This is not an M13, that's for sure.

I expect the AX8 will generate profit for the company. Cliff seems to be a smart business man. When he explained the high cost of the many op amps and other parts in the FX8 that make it work so well and so quietly with an amp in 4cm, I figured that these components are not in the AX8 and that manufacturing costs may be fairly close. The software/firmware is leveraged across the all of the amp modelers so there's likely a relatively small amount in cost to configure the amp/cab modeling part for the AX8, if any. If the profit margin on an AX8 is less than on the other products, I expect the sales volume will justify it.
 
DavidE said:
Unless the AX8 sounds as good in 4cm as my FX8 (which it shouldn't by all accounts so far), my FX8 isn't going anywhere.

I'm trying to envision the size and weight of a pedalboard with an AX8 and an FX8 plus up to 4 expression pedals. I'm now picturing a separate pedalboard for each. :) However, if the AX8 can run an amp and cab or ir plus 8-10 effects, I don't see the need to use both together though it could be done. Not sure what the looper capabilities are on the AX8, but I don't loop with my electric gear; only acoustic.
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I'm thinking of running he fx8 in front of my amp, and an ax8 in the loop. That way the fx8 would be out front like a pedal board and the ax8 would be back with the amp. Could use the midi of the fx8 to control the ax8, use right out of the fx8 to ax8 in to bypass the real preamp, use the loop in of the ax8 from the amp loop send. This way you could use your fx8 for all pre effects, ax8 for all post fx. And have the option of using your real amp pre, or ax8 modeled pres. The next step would be to use both outs of the ax8, one to amp fx return, xlr outs to frfr
 
Robboman said:
..but you can just keep using the footswitch that came with your amp for channel switching. That's why I say no biggie, but of course IMO.

FWIW.. for some reason I had a bunch of crazy noise when I tried to cable FX8 relay output to my amp footswitch input. It functioned, but it's way quieter with my old footswitch. Maybe just my cabling...
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I bought this unit to cut down on tap dancing, not keep the tap on the floor going. I want 1 button scene changes, including amp. Without this, it's a deal breaker for me.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
I'm thinking of running he fx8 in front of my amp, and an ax8 in the loop. That way the fx8 would be out front like a pedal board and the ax8 would be back with the amp. Could use the midi of the fx8 to control the ax8, use right out of the fx8 to ax8 in to bypass the real preamp, use the loop in of the ax8 from the amp loop send. This way you could use your fx8 for all pre effects, ax8 for all post fx. And have the option of using your real amp pre, or ax8 modeled pres. The next step would be to use both outs of the ax8, one to amp fx return, xlr outs to frfr
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That makes no sense at all. You can do it all with the FX8 with a much lower noise floor. Why get an ax8 involved at all???
 
brads4 said:
I bought this unit to cut down on tap dancing, not keep the tap on the floor going. I want 1 button scene changes, including amp. Without this, it's a deal breaker for me.
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It will do that. And not use a block when you set it up that way.

I'm not sure how the relay would cause noise. That's curious.
 
The relay may cause noise if your relay switch is voltage differential rather than short to sleeve. Just a guess, but I bet that's the issue.

Also I think you are mixing replies :)

The person with the noise issues is not me, I was responding to someone who said relays are not that necessary. One of the main reasons I got this was relay support.
 
Relays can cause a ground loop. You may have to use midi and amp gizmo instead.

And why would I use an ax8 with the fx8? Easy, so I can use my real amp, or the amp modeler, or both. Best of everything all in one.
 
I just spent 2 days with the FX8.....WOW .. pretty much sums it up. :eek:

- at one time or the other over 35 years I have owned or played just about every 'name pedal. While a few stacked up individually. Nothing comes close to the power & over all tone goodness FAS is producing

More - more - more !


Upset over the $ing's of the FX8 - AX8? .....not for one second. :p

F8 Firmware update soon :eagerness:

It's not the notes in your music, it's the music in you notes

JD
 
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