Ax8 - more punchiness/in your face-iness?

G

GuitaRasmus

Member
Hi guys - new member of the fractal family, but a pretty experienced modelling user here.

I've had my Ax8 for about 2 months now, and while I'm very excited about it, I'm having a little trouble; I'm primarily using the Top Boost, Dirty Shirley and Plexi amps, for all round cover band duty, but I'm not sure I think theyre punchy enough. Tonight a buddy of mine and I was geeking around in my rehearsal room, and we pulles out my former Amt Fender preamp/torpedo cab setup, and the sound seemed much more punchy and "in your face." I play through a Yamaha Dxr10, which I think is very nice, but somehow the Ax8 seems to not punch through the mix as well - not a blanket sound, but not as punchy and clear as I'd like.

Any tips from the nice people here?
 
Did you try dialing up more compression? That "punchy" thing older modelers exhibited was generally due to a lack of dynamics in the processed signal. Something Fractal works hard to supply is a very dynamic modeling experience; unlike any other really. If you want some of that punch back, dial out the dynamics by adding compression. I'd start by trying the compressor built right in to the AMP block. And if that's not quite doing it for you, put a studio compressor model out in front of the AMP block and clamp down on the lower frequencies.
 
DXR speakers have a very balanced sound coming out of it. it could be masking the punchy EQ. you may need to poke some Mid frequencies out in the EQ
 
Hi Rasmus

Did you try to set up a patch similar to the AMT->Torpedo setup; i.e. did you try something like a Doubleverb SF or maybe Bassguy in the Ax8.

As you know, I also have the Torpedo CAB, and if I recall correctly, you quite like the power amp sims in there. I always considered the PA sims in the Torpedo to be quite stiff, so maybe it might get you closer by dialing down power amp sag in Ax8? Just a thought.
 
I got mine yesterday and fiddled around a bit. Stumbled upon the combo Marshall TV greenbacks cab
and the Spawn Nitro head (chose the "Jumped Plexi" preset and just switched amp block).
Now THAT was punchy, chunky and fat! My fave so far!
 
Thanks for the tips - I'll give them a try, although I'm a bit sceptic about the compressor thing - I usually find compressors seem to take away a bit of punch? I just want some more clarity/punchiness of sound, not neccesarily a different or stiffer feel.
 
GuitaRasmus said:
Thanks for the tips - I'll give them a try, although I'm a bit sceptic about the compressor thing - I usually find compressors seem to take away a bit of punch? I just want some more clarity/punchiness of sound, not neccesarily a different or stiffer feel.
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With the right settings, a compressor will definitely add some punch.
 
GuitaRasmus said:
Very interesting - I've never seemed to be able to get that out of it - do you have any examples of settings you could share?
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You need to slow down Attack. Not so slow that it sounds stupid, but slow enough to let the pick attack come through before the compressor clamps down on the signal.

Play with Attack until you find the settings that work best with your music and playing style.
 
I must admit knowing Rasmus that I doubt that a compressor will solve his problem. However, look up @Danny Danzi s recent video on compression in the AxeFX forum. He gets a quite punchy sound.

I think punchyness might start in the cab. Which IRs are you using? Based on which cabs and microphones?
 
Try the bludo cab or One of the TAF cabs called something like AC30 like for the top boost. The Bludo is quite punchy. Edit: That's cab 11 and 154.

How about trying a V30 based cab for the Marshalls?
 
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Well, now I've tried out some of your suggestions;

The compression thing sort of works - it's more punchy, but I also lose some of the feel of the amp, which is a major tradeoff for me - a lot of the touch sensitivity and dynamics seem to disappear. At least with the amps built in compressor.

I've also tried out some other cabs - with the top boost, I tried out the Bludo, and it seems very bassy and a little harsh for me - the treble seems somewhat harder than the blues/silver/boutique cabs I usually use.

With the Dirty Shirley I tried out a lot of cabs - I kept coming back to the Basketweave TV mix, which is the one I've using for some time. I tried messing a little with pick attack, and power amp hardness to get some more punch through, but I'm not sure I'm looking in the right place. It's hard to explain - I basically want to feel the note more - more immediate/spanky/punchy response.

Any help is much appreciated! :)
 
GuitaRasmus said:
...I basically want to feel the note more - more immediate/spanky/punchy response.
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Volume!

When someone doesn't think a Fractal product has enough punch/slap/whatever, it's almost always a matter of volume. They play it loud, but not as loud as their old tube rigs.

The Axe's modeling gives you the sound of a pushed amp without the volume of a pushed amp. So people crank it, but not as far as they'd crank a real amp. Because, let's face it: that kind of volume isn't comfortable for very long. Then they dial it up...oh yeah, that's where the spank went.
 
Rex said:
Volume!

When someone doesn't think a Fractal product has enough punch/slap/whatever, it's almost always a matter of volume. They play it loud, but not as loud as their old tube rigs.

The Axe's modeling gives you the sound of a pushed amp without the volume of a pushed amp. So people crank it, but not as far as they'd crank a real amp. Because, let's face it: that kind of volume isn't comfortable for very long. Then they dial it up...oh yeah, that's where the spank went.
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^This!
 
You're comparing a preamp through an IR to a full amp simulation through an IR. The AMT is just a preamp. The Torpedo Cab is just an IR "player".

Now the preamp being based on a Fender will be quite clean and there will be little, if any distortion. Since there is no power amp simulation there won't be any power amp compression.

Therefore what you are hearing is the compression of the AX-8 power amp simulation. At low volumes this will make things seem less punchy since the dynamic range is reduced. At high volumes, however, you want less dynamic range and a preamp into IR solution will be too dynamic and get lost in the mix.

You can either turn off the Power Amp modeling or turn down the Master Volume to get less power amp compression but then it's not authentic.
 
Of course, volume helps, but I'm still not convinced it's the direction I need to go - I've heard the punchiness in countless youtube videos, most notably Pete Thorns, and the Torpedo cab setup does it too - Pete uses an Axe as well, so I know it can be done.

@ Cliff (I suppose?) First of all, thanks for an amazing product - I'm blown away by the flexibility and options.
Actually, the Torpedo Cab does have poweramp simulations, which I used - in this particular case I used a single ended EL34 power amp, turned up about half way.

The thing I guess I'm looking for, is more sense of "the string" - I know it's a large part of his technique, but Pete Thorn has it in spades - you can always hear an amazing attack in his videos. If you have any tips on how to emphasize that part of the sound, I would be very grateful.
 
OK, you are asking for settings, that could help?
Rise NEG FDBK, then retweak presence the way you want it. Higher negative feedback can help the highs to jump more into your face.
For punchier lows, the EQ band at 125 Hz, 250 Hz, and 500 Hz, can help.
Lower the depth frequency to around 200 Hz when you want to have a lot of punchy depth, without drowning the low mids.
Find a frequency that resonates at the speaker tab, low freq, and have the low res high enough, more than 5 or so.
Lower supply sag to have a harder (unforgiving?) sound.
Lower XFMR Match a bit.

You see there's a lot handles where you can change things. It can take a time until you find YOUR parameters, don't worry. To each his own.
 
If you are using the Output Comp in the Amp block, a little goes a long way.

Try 1.0 to 1.6 with the type set to feedback. I find settings at or over 2.0 start to sound noticeably compressed on the pick attack with the default threshold.

Really wish there was a GR meter on that comp.
 
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