Hey Danny
I appreciate the post. You pull a great sound out of the box and are an inspiration to us all.
I dont mean to be abrasive. I just feel that when I originally posted this, the talk of the update to the drives in Q5 took the heat out of this discussion but the reality is that that not much has really changed in Driveland, as you point out. The drives aren't aren't bad and they are usable, they just dont match my pedals which include Fulltone OCD, Wampler Plexi even Boss OD3. All those pedals sound really good into a clean amp. I like that sound. Im a classic rock guy, more rolling stones than Metallica. More Black Crowes than Black Sabbath!
I have all options available to me and use them all. I love the AX8 into a power amp. Ive also used it with great success in FRFR. All good.
Everyone keeps telling me here to forget the Drives and use the amp models. I get all that and agree the amp models are the best available anywhere. But not many here seem to get what Im actually saying. I am a touring guitarist and use backline amps. My bread and better is to work off a clean bass. I cant tour a FRFR and cant rely on having great gear at the venue. And the drives should be great for the amount of money this unit costs and the awesomeness of everything else in the box. For me its stops the AX8 from being a one stop shop and has me back using different gear for different applications.
I did play around with using the amps as pedals , with some luck, and will continue to go deeper down that path. Its just not as intuitive and simple as switching on a drive.
All good. Dont want to start any fights. I just wish they developers would put the same attention into the drives as they do the amp models. Just till they get them right. Everything else on the AX8 is great.
No animosity here, Jonny. I totally respect your opinion on the matter as well as what you're up against. I would imagine the pedals you have may be better than what you're getting out of the AX8. Either way, there's always that personal preference and as you know, tone will always be subjective no matter what.
Being a beta tester/artist for Fractal, I've put a lot of time into their devices. Like probably more than anything I've ever worked on in my life. Now, that said, I have no personal bias. I'm the first one to jump on and open my mouth when something doesn't blow me away. Cliff has taped my mouth a few times. LOL! But that said, I'm one of the guys that's forever trying to get the best out of these units as well as pushing them as far as they can go. Case in point and the reason I'm saying this...
One of the things that I HATE about the AX8 is the glitch when it changes presets. So you know me...I went on a mission to see if there can be a remedy. I doubt there will ever be a processor update to where this will be fixed...so, let's work with what we have. I started messing with the unit and of course found out the X/Y block changes in the amps are what makes the glitch come to life. This forced me to see if I could create a sound based on just drive blocks alone. I'm a power amp guy...so going through a clean amp isn't something I like. Only because of my past experiences with that....not for any other reason. I got no problems with guys that use this method with success. I just always failed other than 3-4 times.
So anyway, what I figured out with the drive blocks was...they sound really good and I could get anything from classic rock with that little saturation sound, to the big nasty processed tones that I prefer. The only issue with this? I lost the "tube sound" by not using an amp block. But, the glitch was completely fixed and I can even change scenes with AX8 Edit open. That was a breath of fresh air. Ok, so I failed sort of with my first lab work...
But hey, I figured out that without an X/Y change, I still had a good sound and the glitch was gone, right? Ok, so that made me do a hybrid thing. I use an amp for my dirty sounds, and when I go to clean, I bypass the amp. Now, the issue there was...it was TOO clean. I like a little bit of break up, but not a drive breakup. So I changed my compressor block to something with the output a little hotter, turned on the micro drive block or the FET and just added a little sustain so that my clean sound had a little girth and some sustain. Again, it doesn't have drive...it just sounds full and hearty. Now that said, one press of the drive to off position, and it's crystal clean if I need it. Add a little pitch an octave up, and it's a pretty decent 12 string sim.
My point is....I worked extensively with these drive blocks...all of them....to see what worked with what. You have to literally use them and experiment while using other effects as well. Like for example, I always use a compressor block before my drive block which can drive the drive block a little. Should you have to do that? Well, it depends on the sound you want. In a perfect world, we'd love for the drive blocks to just sound like what we want them to. For me, they do for the most part and honest when I tell you, I'm VERY picky with this stuff.
All of the above said, I'd love to see you get into the amp blocks along with the drives. They really do enhance each other in a positive way. I've been so successful with the Fractal stuff, I've gotten rid of all my tube amps but one. I just think with the right direction and the right amount of help or experimentation, and you can really get some good stuff. I know that doesn't help you much since that's just me sharing my personal stuff....but honest man, if you can find the time to get into the amp blocks and the cabs....I think you will be blown away at what you can get. I have about 5 banks of classic rock patches that give you that nice breakup without going over the top. I actually use cab blocks with cab sim on even going through my 25 watt greenback cabs.
Or, If I want to go direct, I have patches that are created to go direct and they sound great too. I did a show with my AX8 where I just used in ears and no cab behind me. It's not quite the same as feeling that cab resonate the stage...but for quickie things or those festivals I play (I'm in a VH tribute band) where there are like 20 bands playing, it sure is nice to just bring my AX8, output into the return on whatever amp they supply, or go right into their snake to the board and I'm done.
On the abrasive comment....I just see people pretty much saying the drive blocks are bad. I'm not against the opinion there, and as you know, I didn't hear a huge difference when they were updated either. BUT....I've always looked at it like this...and this may or may not make sense to anyone but me. LOL!!!
When I bought my AxeFxII, I didn't care if the amps sounded like what they were supposed to or the pedals were identical. Now I get it, it's supposed to be a modeler and accepted as such....and people do want to be as close to the real thing as possible. I get all that. But for me, I wanted to just grab the components and come up with a killer sound.
I can't tell you what the real stuff is that I use in my Fractal gear. One day I have to open up Yek's awesome pdf and see what I'm actually using. LOL! But for me, I just wanted to select what worked and go with the flow, ya know? There are amps in the box that to me don't sound as tube as the real ones I've tried...YET, they have a better sound than the real amp. Other amps, just work for me when in real life, the real amp sounds terrible for me and how I play. So my thing is...I grab the Fractal by the horns and just mess with everything until I get the sound I want. If I end up with some country sound that happens to work for rock or whatever...so be it, ya know? One thing I've done for myself that has been super helpful with this modeling stuff is...I'm more open minded now. Whatever is, just is, as long as it sounds good, ya know?
Anyway....try some of those amps sometime. You may really be happy. The one thing you will pick up that you'll love....some of the amps in the Fractal have a VERY strong 12AX7 presence. When we use pedals into a clean amp, unless you can drive the clean part a little to push the 12AX7 tubes a bit, pedals (in my opinion) make you sound transistor. That there is one of the main reasons I've had issues with clean amps and pedals. With some of the pedals you use for real, it may inject more of that analog tone you are looking for. I think you'll definitely get this with the amp block, a drive and if possible, output to return on your amp bypassing the amp's pre-amp. I've had such great results this way, I guess it makes me a little biased when I hear people can't get the sounds they are looking for.
For what it's worth....I'll try and help you out if you decide to go down this road. It sure won't hurt anything and may even end up being an awesome solution that you like better than just the pedal drives alone. Whatever the case, best of luck.