Awesome through headphones - unbearable through studio monitors - need guidance/help!

I have been through this too, and never quite got a complete solution. My theory is that with headphones, even my semi open Beyer DT880 pros, most of the natural acoustic sound of the guitar is drowned out by the headphones, but with the Studio monitors, played at normal listening levels, you can here that natural acoustic sound from the guitar. To my ears, the clean acoustic stringy sound over the top of a dirty amp sound just doesn't sound right, especially if there's some reverb in play.

I did find that listening through the monitors in mono (I do mean just one speaker) was fairly comfortable for me to listen to whilst playing, not being a million miles away from having a quiet combo in the same room. My brain struggled less with that sound. A decent pair of studio stands with the monitors lower than ear level but angled up also seemed to help, vs having the tweeters at ear level. I'm using iso-acoustic stands.

I still mostly play with headphones and listen back with monitors though.
 
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Here's LT tweaking for headphones. Listen to what he says and then try this yourself...what works for headphones may not work for untweaked cab IRs. Retro-engineer LT's process, and you'll be good.

 
zerolight said:
I have been through this too, and never quite got a complete solution. My theory is that with headphones, even my semi open Beyer DT880 pros, most of the natural acoustic sound of the guitar is drowned out by the headphones, but with the Studio monitors, played at normal listening levels, you can here that natural acoustic sound from the guitar. To my ears, the clean acoustic stringy sound over the top of a dirty amp sound just doesn't sound right, especially if there's some reverb in play.

I did find that listening through the monitors in mono (I do mean just one speaker) was fairly comfortable for me to listen to whilst playing, not being a million miles away from having a quiet combo in the same room. My brain struggled less with that sound. A decent pair of studio stands with the monitors lower than ear level but angled up also seemed to help, vs having the tweeters at ear level. I'm using iso-acoustic stands.

I still mostly play with headphones and listen back with monitors though.
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This. If you're not monitoring loud, the guitar itself will have a significant effect on what you hear when you're listening through monitors.
 
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To the OP, I also play on a Beyerdynamic, a DT990. These cans are bright, really bright, like staring at the sun.

If something is sounding 'right' through them, will definitely sound dark on everything else.

I do apply some compensation EQ when playing through the DT's.
 
Rex said:
This. If you're not monitoring loud, the guitar itself will have a significant effect on what you hear when you're listening through monitors.
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Yeah. Record something and play it back through monitors and I bet the OP will like what he hears. It's the playing through monitors that can be a challenge. I imagine over time the brain gets used to it. When I do it, I do it mono, which works better for me.
 
framos said:
To the OP, I also play on a Beyerdynamic, a DT990. These cans are bright, really bright, like staring at the sun.

If something is sounding 'right' through them, will definitely sound dark on everything else.

I do apply some compensation EQ when playing through the DT's.
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For me it is less about the tone and more about the overtones when hearing the guitar and the monitors together. It does something that's a little phasey, a little reverby, that just sounds off. I guess it also adds a bit of clean - like if you mixed direct guitar and dirty amped guitar together in your signal chain. It's not there in the recorded tone - it's just what you hear as you play.
 
I should have created that topic before :D Excellent tipps from you all guys and super interesting stuff! This was on my shoulders ways too long ..
I'll check out the LT video, looks good!

Yesterday, i followed the approach to use the looper to play something back and then search for some IRs.
It definitely felt better - ways better! It's going into the direction like mentioned here before, like, sound/acoustics coming from your guitar while playing can be weird and hearing differently without that.

I'll try more, checkout all your tipps and will take a look at other IRs and IR combinations.
I really didn't know that the DT770's are that bright ... i like that brightness, but now i get it, that on my monitors, it's super dark.
I'll take a look on how to flatten them ... 👍
 
Sounding good on studio monitors is better, having a good direct FOH sound in mind, right? ...
I can't 'win' anything if my preset sounds perfectly through headphones but only ... 'alright' through studio monitors?
A comparison between studio monitors/PA system is better as a comparison betweengeadphones/PA system? ...
Again, sounding good with my real cab is the biggest priority - but i also want/need a good direct sound when the venue is capable (i still play venues where a cab is often not mic'ed ..)
 
MrPond said:
Sounding good on studio monitors is better, having a good direct FOH sound in mind, right? ...
I can't 'win' anything if my preset sounds perfectly through headphones but only ... 'alright' through studio monitors?
A comparison between studio monitors/PA system is better as a comparison betweengeadphones/PA system? ...
Again, sounding good with my real cab is the biggest priority - but i also want/need a good direct sound when the venue is capable (i still play venues where a cab is often not mic'ed ..)
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Full range, flat response.

If your transducers, no matter how sweet sounding, are not telling the truth and/or lying by omission, it’s guesswork. If you are dialing in at one volume, and playing out at another, it’s guesswork. You can solve this, or at least minimize compromise, with a little science. Good luck on the journey!
 
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jrayjr said:
For me, Headphones and Studio Monitors need two different Setups to sound best
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No if you use the appropriate headphones. What I get through my Audeze LCD-2 is the same that I get though my Mackie HR824 monitors. Either tweaking the Axe-FX or producing a song at the DAW.
 
I wonder if it is worth mentioning that no world-class mixer would ever mix or dial in
anything related to music on a set of cans. Never!! ;)

Sure cans are necessary for some of us, and in some situations, like low-volume at home
playing. But can you really get the best results by dialing in tones to suit the cans? Just
seems to me that is a recipe for disastrous tones when you then try to apply those headphone
mixes/tones with another delivery device---such as FOH or powered cab or studio monitors.
 
I think what you will find though is that listening back on studio monitors sounds great. Playing through them doesn’t. That’s a problem I can’t get past. It’s the hearing the guitar acoustically over the monitor. For me it’s not that I’m tuning my tone to sound better through cans, because I like the tone I hear recorded through my monitors. The tone is there. But it doesn’t sound the same whilst I’m playing. I just work around it and accept that I’ll never be very happy playing through monitors.
 
These kind of questions, while honest and valid, all seem to eventually be premised on some sort of objective standard of "flat" and "honest." But then when you dive down into the various monitoring options, whether IEMS, cans, monitors, PA speakers, or guitar-centric FRFR boxes like CLRs, I can't say that I've ever found that perfect ideal. They all put a different spin on the sound. That's regardless of volume level, acoustic treatment, musical context, cost of the monitor, and every other reason given why X doesn't sound like Y. My RCF monitors don't sound like my Neumann monitors don't sound like my Beyer or Blue headphones don't sound like my CLR ad infinitum. So my Blue headphones have a super-present upper-midrange that I don't get at all from DT-880s. I can look up analysis plots and employ correction tools, but that's just adding more EQ in the way. If I really believe any one of them is the flat and honest one, then I'm just going to get frustrated with the rest.

If anything, I have a much better sense of what each of my monitoring options sound like, and just have to keep it in mind and choose which particular spin I want to listen to that day (particularly with headphones) or use on a gig (I rarely like to chance it on whatever is already on stage). And hopefully when I start playing I can just forget about it and move on.
 
la noise said:
I wonder if it is worth mentioning that no world-class mixer would ever mix or dial in
anything related to music on a set of cans. Never!! ;)

Sure cans are necessary for some of us, and in some situations, like low-volume at home
playing. But can you really get the best results by dialing in tones to suit the cans? Just
seems to me that is a recipe for disastrous tones when you then try to apply those headphone
mixes/tones with another delivery device---such as FOH or powered cab or studio monitors.
Click to expand...
Have you ever tried the Audeze LCD-2 for mixing or tweaking? You should verify all the variables before making an absolute statement ;)
 
MrPond said:
Fair point. I'll ditch my headphones for judging sounds and just enjoy them.
Studio monitors are obviously a better place to find the right IR or dial in tones ...
Thanks, guys - i really appreciate all of your feedback!
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I have sennheiser hd 6xx - they are great nice flat response no coloring I have been interested in new headphones - quick glance the sennheiser hd 6xx hold their own for the price - that said you need a a quality amp to drive the sennheiser's

Been reading the DT's are quite bright - sennheiser hd 6xx are very neutral - I need to look more into it but for a acceptable price sennheiser may be worth a look

Heres a great read - click this image to go to link

 
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