Atomic FRFR, and CLR questions.

barhrecords said:
Try playing pink noise and using a spectrum analyzer.

While not scientific, you can see as you reduce the SPL the overall freq response does not change all that much.

(Your room modes and test equipment will affect this but I am talking about ballpark not a rigorous room analysis or scientific test.)
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I played music through it in free mode on a stand directed to my face. The CLR was at low volume and even by bringing my face close to it ( fletcher-munson) the bass and highs didn't come back that much. When I cranked the amp they did.
 
I have 2 Neos. Never had a problem until 2 days ago.
I was rearranging them to be a 2nd set of monitors for mixing a new single I wrote with Ace Frehley, called, Rise Up.
Suddenly one side was "off". Thought I had blown a tweeter on one side.
When I set them up originally, I used my ears to match the volume. When I set them up as monitors for mixing, I set the volumes with marker white line on the pot visually.
After examination of the signal chain, I found the issue.
The master volume has no click increments. At the factory, the master knob was attached one increment off, so if the're both at Noon visually, one will be at 11 o'clock volume wise, while the other will be at Noon. Enough to skew the stereo field at low volumes
I took one knob off, then on again, putting it in the right position. Viola. A sigh of relief!
Talk about simple fixes.

Anyway, I recommend getting 2, as you can do multiple things with 2. Mixing/Running 4 mono instruments live/ killer small P.A. --They are the best speaker investment I have made to date.
 
klaushouz said:
I have 2 Neos. Never had a problem until 2 days ago.
I was rearranging them to be a 2nd set of monitors for mixing a new single I wrote with Ace Frehley, called, Rise Up.
Suddenly one side was "off". Thought I had blown a tweeter on one side.
When I set them up originally, I used my ears to match the volume. When I set them up as monitors for mixing, I set the volumes with marker white line on the pot visually.
After examination of the signal chain, I found the issue.
The master volume has no click increments. At the factory, the master knob was attached one increment off, so if the're both at Noon visually, one will be at 11 o'clock volume wise, while the other will be at Noon. Enough to skew the stereo field at low volumes
I took one knob off, then on again, putting it in the right position. Viola. A sigh of relief!
Talk about simple fixes.

Anyway, I recommend getting 2, as you can do multiple things with 2. Mixing/Running 4 mono instruments live/ killer small P.A. --They are the best speaker investment I have made to date.
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Found the same thing out about knobs because they're pressure fitted in factory they weren't in the same position on my CLR's too simple fix indeed.
 
acidfrost said:
I played music through it in free mode on a stand directed to my face. The CLR was at low volume and even by bringing my face close to it ( fletcher-munson) the bass and highs didn't come back that much. When I cranked the amp they did.
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I think the CLR is "flat" through a wide volume range. It may be that your other monitors "smile" with emphasized lo and hi. If you were to apply eq to the CLR's to match the other monitors, they would probably sound the same. You may prefer EQ-ing the signal differently going to the CLRs if you don't like the flat response.

On the CLR's, were the switches set to preset=FF and sub=off? For those who don't know, here are the explanations from the manual:

"Sub – When in the “on” position this switch attenuate the low end of the system to accommodate use with an external sub woofer.

Preset Switch – Adjusts the frequency response of the amplifier to accommodate 3 different cabinet orientations while maintaining a flat response. The presets are: “FF” = Free Field – for when the cabinets are elevated off the floor like on a chair, pole mount or stand, “Tilt” – for when the cabinet is set up in the wedge position on the floor and “BL” – for when the cabinet is set up like a traditional guitar setup on the floor."
 
Most speakers keep pretty consistent EQ whether they're at low volume or high. The apparent tonal changes at different volumes comes courtesy of our friends Fletcher and Munson...and in the case of the guitar, it gets a boost from the speaker-to-guitar acoustic feedback. That can change your tone a lot.
 
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grape said:
I think the CLR is "flat" through a wide volume range. It may be that your other monitors "smile" with emphasized lo and hi. If you were to apply eq to the CLR's to match the other monitors, they would probably sound the same. You may prefer EQ-ing the signal differently going to the CLRs if you don't like the flat response.

On the CLR's, were the switches set to preset=FF and sub=off? For those who don't know, here are the explanations from the manual:

"Sub – When in the “on” position this switch attenuate the low end of the system to accommodate use with an external sub woofer.

Preset Switch – Adjusts the frequency response of the amplifier to accommodate 3 different cabinet orientations while maintaining a flat response. The presets are: “FF” = Free Field – for when the cabinets are elevated off the floor like on a chair, pole mount or stand, “Tilt” – for when the cabinet is set up in the wedge position on the floor and “BL” – for when the cabinet is set up like a traditional guitar setup on the floor."
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Yes.

What I'm saying is if I put the master on clr at 1/4 of the way and listen to a certain distance that gives me 80db and then I crank it at 1/2 and move back from the speaker to get that same 80db, it doesn't sound the same. It's not fletcher munson as I'm listening at the same volume in my position. The CLR is not good at low volume. It's not made for bedroom reference.

My studio monitors don't vary like that by cranking their amp.
 
acidfrost said:
Yes.

What I'm saying is if I put the master on clr at 1/4 of the way and listen to a certain distance that gives me 80db and then I crank it at 1/2 and move back from the speaker to get that same 80db, it doesn't sound the same. It's not fletcher munson as I'm listening at the same volume in my position. The CLR is not good at low volume. It's not made for bedroom reference.

My studio monitors don't vary like that by cranking their amp.
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I'm not getting this.

80db is not quiet.

And in your example you are changing your listening position.

How big is your room and what room treatments do you have that gives you an accurate listening position that is that large?
 
electronpirate said:
For roughly 5 years, I've had the 1st iteration of the Atomic amps 50watt FRFR active tube monitors.

While I have enjoyed them, and outside of one blown cap, they have been pretty flawless performers. Caveat: Light use gigging, mostly basement playing (2/3 times a week), but lately I've moved into my own space, and I can really make them sing at loud volumes.

Problem is, I'm at the point where I feel like I can only get the full use out of my Axe II unless these things are really singing volume wise. I don't NEED huge volume to play, but in tweaking, my patches sound radically different gig vs enjoyment volume (enjoyment being still loud, just not 'compete with the drummer' loud.) Also, I've felt that there is an overabundance of bass...it can get boomy unless tamed; and even then, it's a dance between 'I can feel it thump' and 'thin'.

Another problem is that I do not want to deal with tubes, caps, etc. My last problem is that a cap blew, and I really don't want to have to deal with that anymore. (And one of them is suspiciously crackling...which makes me think it's coming around again...) Enough.

I'm considering going CLR. Maybe a single active wedge, maybe 2. If a wedge could power another cab (say, the old atomic), I might go that way. Doing the math, it makes no sense to me to get 2 passive wedges, and the Matrix...more money, more cables, more hassle.

Questions for CLR owners:
-Is dispersion enough for a single wedge? Or would I miss 2 of them?
-I really need comments on low volume playing. I'm thinking of buying a condo (like I need 3 properties in my life...) and sonic disturbance is an issue. If I have to turn up to get *that* tone, then honestly, I'll just buy another house (if that gives some weird sick insight into what I consider 'priority'...)
-Is there anyone who's owned the earlier version of the Atomic, and moved onto the CLR? Comment please.
-How have they been reliability wise? This is an item I would want to buy, and not have to deal with again.

Yes, this is a roundabout way to say 'should I get a CLR'?
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You are welcome to stop by and check mine out.
 
barhrecords said:
I'm not getting this.

80db is not quiet.

And in your example you are changing your listening position.

How big is your room and what room treatments do you have that gives you an accurate listening position that is that large?
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The speaker is quiet. When you stick your face in front of it you can get 80db even though the overall volume is low. Volume changes with distance.
 
electronpirate said:
Questions for CLR owners:
-Is dispersion enough for a single wedge? Or would I miss 2 of them?
-I really need comments on low volume playing. I'm thinking of buying a condo (like I need 3 properties in my life...) and sonic disturbance is an issue. If I have to turn up to get *that* tone, then honestly, I'll just buy another house (if that gives some weird sick insight into what I consider 'priority'...)
-Is there anyone who's owned the earlier version of the Atomic, and moved onto the CLR? Comment please.
-How have they been reliability wise? This is an item I would want to buy, and not have to deal with again.
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-Dispersion is fine for me; actually much better than the active Atomic Reactor cab I had before (probably the last incarnation, I dunno how many versions there may have been). I usually play in my apartment living room and a reasonably small rehearsal space, so it's not like I have a lot of room to move around anyway. At a gig you might want to mount it on a pole for clearer dispersion. Last time I kept it as a wedge on the floor, and while I could hear myself just fine my bandmates were struggling a bit to hear me. The room acoustics weren't great either, so that probably also played a part.

-I think this is more about EQ-ing something in the Axe than anything related to the CLR. My apartment is insulated pretty well, so I haven't had anyone complaining at my doorstep. :) Then again, I'm such an awesome player that my neighbors would actually love to hear me all the time! Right? :p My patches are dialed in for high volume, so they're a bit muddy perhaps at low volumes (typical Fletcher-Munson stuff) but I cannot be arsed to change it anyway. :)

-Yup. Needed the additional volume which the Reactor couldn't bring. Satisfied now. Also, the Reactor hyped the lows slightly and suppressed the high end a bit (comparatively I mean), so I found my patches were actually much harsher-sounding through the CLR. The form factor/weight distribution for the wedge I have is also better; the Reactor has all its weight on the side where the tubes are, so I find the CLR easier to carry. The non-Neo version (which I have) is equally heavy though.

-No issues whatsoever. If you do get one, also order some sort of cover for it. It's pretty easy to chip pieces of black paint of it.

Whether or not you need 2, dunno. I still have my old Reactor, and for fun I sometimes put it in stereo with my CLR. Pretty cool; if you end up getting the CLR and still haven't sold your Reactor, try that and see how you like it.
 
acidfrost said:
The speaker is quiet. When you stick your face in front of it you can get 80db even though the overall volume is low. Volume changes with distance.
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When you stick your face in front of a speaker, you emphasize the speaker's sound, and room acoustics become less important. When you back away, you start to hear the room. Different position, different sound.
 
I have 2 CLRs.. had them since they first came out. They sound great.

I'll get straight to it... I can't stand playing at low volume unless I'm sitting down specifically to practice technique, etc. I tend to play around 95-100 db on average when I'm playing at home (which is all I do as of late). I'm too used to playing with some amount of healthy volume using mostly vintage amps for many years. I don't think it matters whether you're using studio monitors, the CLRs or other similar sized FRFR options, tube amps/cabs (even with attenuators).. whatever, I still think you need to hit a certain point with volume to get things happening. I always rented houses (before buying one) for this very reason.. or have a place where you can rehearse at volume.
 
cobbler said:
I have two Neo Active CLR and they have the combo jacks. I am using XLR cables as we speak.
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,

My mistake, Craig. I just tried an XLR connector. If I could READ - :? 'combo jack'? I hate to be a source of misinformation to OP or anyone else!
 
electronpirate said:
'should I get a CLR'?
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Yes, actually get two of them. I started with the original Atomics and now have two CLR neos. No issues, aside from the delicate finish that Severed mentions above. Studio Slips clamshells are your friend. :encouragement:

btw - I had Studio Slips clamshells for my my original Atomics and they are the reason that I got such a good return when I sold them to get the CLR neos.
 
I make 1 pach for clr for live and 1 for krk v6 I mostly use clr at home over the krk- tv volume sounds great eq on all is differnt
 
Hotplate said:
I have 2 CLRs.. had them since they first came out. They sound great.

I'll get straight to it... I can't stand playing at low volume unless I'm sitting down specifically to practice technique, etc. I tend to play around 95-100 db on average when I'm playing at home (which is all I do as of late). I'm too used to playing with some amount of healthy volume using mostly vintage amps for many years. I don't think it matters whether you're using studio monitors, the CLRs or other similar sized FRFR options, tube amps/cabs (even with attenuators).. whatever, I still think you need to hit a certain point with volume to get things happening. I always rented houses (before buying one) for this very reason.. or have a place where you can rehearse at volume.
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couldn't say it better myself! When i crank a clr the sound I get is NOTHING compared to the sound i get when its at low volume. My presets have so much balls when its cranked at least half way, pole mounted in the corner of the room
 
What you're describing does not depend on the cab tho. It's rather a matter of exciting the room and -above all- your ears.I've explicitely asked Mr. Mitchell about this, and he stated that the CLR are extremely linear in the 0-120 dB range. No change in sound, no cone break-out, no amp saturation, sagging, distortion. It's just thay high pressure levels fill our ears with bass and high freqs and return that feeling of fullness.:)
 
viabcroce said:
What you're describing does not depend on the cab tho. It's rather a matter of exciting the room and -above all- your ears.I've explicitely asked Mr. Mitchell about this, and he stated that the CLR are extremely linear in the 0-120 dB range. No change in sound, no cone break-out, no amp saturation, sagging, distortion. It's just thay high pressure levels fill our ears with bass and high freqs and return that feeling of fullness.:)
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That...and placing the speaker in the corner of the room, which gives an instant bass boost.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I got my email from Tom, and they're on the way. I briefly considered the NEO version, but couldn't justify the uptick on the price. I'm not gigging that much these days, so they won't move that much (and I didn't properly research the tonal differences in between *regular* CLR and *NEO* CLR...

The tube atomics are on sale, but not sure I have any real expectation that they'll move since I'm only selling them locally. (I don't want to ship them as I foolishly tossed the boxes when I moved to a new house...) But on the plus side, I might try to use them as home stereo speakers. A friend bequeathed me his fathers turntable (RIP), and I'm anxious to spin all those records I bought when I was young...

Hell, I'm even considering throwing all 4 of them into the mix (use the THRU) for a 4 speaker wall of sound.

Anyway, I'm in (and $2k lighter in the wallet...)

R
 
If you're still on time, you might want to consider buying just one Neo cab, for when you want to go out. All say (Mr. Mitchell included) that sound differences are negligible and, for just amplifying an instrument, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter at all :)
 
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