Atomic Amps - "Coincident Linear Reference" Designed by Jay Mitchell

This is all very exciting, the speculation that is. Sorry if I missed this but when will these be available. Was it 3 months? From when? Today. Thanks for the reminder.

I've been looking at the RCF NX 12-sma as part of my first modeling setup, along with Axe II. I'm just not sure I can wait several months for this and, from overwhelming feedback I've seen here, it will be hard for the Atomic to best the 12-sma. Any arguments regarding my last statement? From those that have heard both or have been a 12-sma believer?

Maybe I didn't search hard enough for the 12-sma's shortcomings. I hate sour koolaid.
 
tubesRking said:
I'm just not sure I can wait several months for this and, from overwhelming feedback I've seen here, it will be hard for the Atomic to best the 12-sma. Any arguments regarding my last statement? From those that have heard both or have been a 12-sma believer?
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No argument.
Statement.

I have played through the Frazier version of the CLR.

And I have tried many high end solutions, some of them costing upwards of $3,500. That is to say I have tried products that exist in the high end of the loudspeaker market. These high end products are a good bit better than the stuff most of us are using.

At this point I would like to have the high end $3,500 Turbosound powered monitor before the CLR... ...so I could sell it and buy two CLRs.

The CLR is going to redefine the FRFR monitor market.

Most of us here simply have never heard transparency at the level of the CLR. We have had nothing like this to measure against except our best studio reference monitors.

I say again. You will have better than your best studio reference monitors on stage with you.

At some point I will build my PA system around these. Two CLRs firing forward with subs. Two CLRs monitoring. Woof.
 
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tubesRking said:
This is all very exciting, the speculation that is. Sorry if I missed this but when will these be available. Was it 3 months? From when? Today. Thanks for the reminder.

I've been looking at the RCF NX 12-sma as part of my first modeling setup, along with Axe II. I'm just not sure I can wait several months for this and, from overwhelming feedback I've seen here, it will be hard for the Atomic to best the 12-sma. Any arguments regarding my last statement? From those that have heard both or have been a 12-sma believer?

Maybe I didn't search hard enough for the 12-sma's shortcomings. I hate sour koolaid.
Click to expand...

I have not heard nor used the CLR yet, but am a RCF NX 12SMA owner. It's a pro level solution, not just a good speaker box. It's the best I've personally used other than a Meyer Sound monitor provided on a national festival stage; but that was a passive 2-12 design and I imagine costs well upwards of the price range scotts has quoted.

But I am compelled and will be demoing, reviewing and comparing the Atomic CLR and I am excited to hear what it can do. Am I skeptical? Sure, I know what I have and it's doing a great job.

I personally only talk about what I've experienced; and unlike scotts I cannot claim firsthand knowledge of the Frazier or Atomic CLR so until the time I can try it... I am mum.

If the CLR actually outperforms the RCF NX 12SMA, I am in for a treat no doubt. To me it would literally have to be reference level to best what the NX delivers. The NX will continue to deliver, even if the CLR does outperform it... there are too many variables and unknowns for me to even guess the final result for me.

The keys with my opinions are that: a) I have to have firsthand knowledge; b) I am completely honest with praise and/or criticism; c) I will be doing this demo/review/comparison to the best of my ability to communicate what/why/how my opinion is formed. I believe deeply in context and what works for me - and why it does - might not translate to what might work for you or anyone else. But I will be fully forthcoming once I have firsthand knowledge.
 
scotts said:
Most of us here simply have never heard transparency at the level of the CLR.
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Uhhh, exactly. Only a few heard the CLR. A protoype for that matter. So how you can claim: "You will have better than your best studio reference monitors on stage with you"?

Seriously, I hope and trust mr Mitchell to deliver on the promises. Really I do. But I rather wait for production units, test results, reviews and personal experience before making any claims. Just common sense.
 
I want to adress for a moment what I see as the root of all this.

There is no good sonic reason for non-coinceident loudspeakers to exist. All of us scientifically ignorant end users have been duped into believing in a design paradigm that only exists because it can be cheaply made and can somewhat easily provide "good enough" and for the right amount of money "pretty darn good" results.

The big companies release varying levels of product. to wit...
"Hello consumer. Over here we have our entry level crap if you are poor. Then we have our more expensive slightly better sounding stuff if you've got a little more money. You'll like it better and it does cost more... because it's better.
Ah...
but then over here my friend...
then we have the best stuff we can make with non-coicident technology." (let the marketing trumpets sound)
"Of course you mere mortals can't afford such luxury... so the marketing gods say - too bad for you."

Now we have a pairing of Jay's deep knowledge and experience with Tom's business and marketing skills and guess what?
They are bringing Frazier level performance to the market for $1,000. Think about that. No... really... stop a moment and think about that.
Jay has been very clear that the CLR is designed and tested to meet his rigorous standards.

This is one thing I very much respect about Jay Mitchell. He refuses to embrace good-better-best. If he can't provide you with "great" he won't engage.

Thought game:
If Tom King can make this happen with a company the size of Atomic then...
What if JBL had a fit of collective corporate open mindedness and creative introspection?
What if JBL hired a guy like Jay and gave him free reign to re-launch the company?
What if JBLs new corporate philosophy became:
JBL will only produce coincident linear reference products in varying sizes, nothing else. Every speaker will meet the non-negotiable standards of CLR. Every loudspeaker will perform to studio reference levels. There will be no more good-better-best. JBL only makes "great" and we fully embrace CLR.

Jay and Tom are bringing the CLR to market for $1,000 or so. What could a big company do if it turned guys like Jay loose the way Tom King has?

Of course companies like JBL will never do this. It would amount to 'fessing up - admitting their long term investiture in a hopelessly flawed design paradigm that has no good sonic reason to exist.

Things would also be too simple in corporate land. The marketing men would rend there clothes and beat their breasts trying to live without a good-better-best mentality. The bean counters would be afraid for the future. The ad men would have a job that would be so simple they probably couldn't do it.
____________

I'll stop now...

...for a moment anyway.
 
yek said:
So how you can claim: "You will have better than your best studio reference monitors on stage with you"?
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1 I have direct experience with the Frazier monitor that the CLR is patterned after
2 Jay has plainly stated that he will not release any product that does not meet his standards
3 Jay has plainly stated that the CLR meets his standards.

Unless Jay is lying to me I believe I can engage some inference from experience here.
 
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Can't wait to get some CLR HEADPHONES! :D

In all seriousness... would the CLR technology scale down to laptop speakers, headphones and in-ear buds?
 
scotts said:
1 I have direct experience with the Frazier monitor that the CLR is patterned after
2 Jay has plainly stated that he will not release any product that does not meet his standards
3 Jay has plainly stated that the CLR meets his standards.
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I understand your arguments, POV, and I know that you've playing through Jay's rig (not the CLR).

But still, it's creating a hype in my eyes. The production unit doesn't even exist yet. Furthermore, I simply refuse to believe that all engineers from other companies are all idiots or profit-only driven whiteboard fanatics.

My response is also initiated by, how should I put it, the evident change in attitude exhibited in some of these threads.
If a Fractal (or Fractal-related) competitor comes up with something, anticipation builds up and beta reports are posted, lots of people will make fun of all that anticpation/hype. I always find it remarkable how that attitude changes if it comes to a product that's from within the "inner circle".

Oh well, maybe it's just my current mood.
 
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yek said:
I understand your arguments, POV, and I know that you've playing through Jay's rig (not the CLR).

But still, it's creating a hype in my eyes. The production unit doesn't even exist yet. Furthermore, I simply refuse to believe that all engineers from other companies are all idiots or profit-only driven whiteboard fanatics.

My response is also initiated by, how should I put it, the evident change in attitude exhibited in some of these threads.
If a Fractal (or Fractal-related) competitor comes up with something, anticipation builds up and beta reports are posted, lots of people will make fun of all that anticpation/hype. I always find it remarkable how that attitude changes if it comes to a product that's from within the "inner circle".

Oh well, maybe it's just my current mood.
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I see all these sorts of things from a different perspective.

It's not 'hype' more than a person expressing their opinion. That tends, online, to be generalized into 'hype' when it is honestly only one man's opinion. One man's opinion - pro or con - does not a consensus make.

And part of the other side of that is that there is no real 'consensus' at all, even among those of similar taste and background. Further examination of what really goes on is that it's subjective opinion sort of accepted as objective truth. Even if the person believes deeply that what he believes to be true is irrefutable and obvious; it is still subject to outside unattached perspective.

I'll repeat my mantra - your opinion is your opinion... it is not truth or falsehood. No matter where on the scale you are between 'it sucks!' and 'it rules!'. Opinions are by nature subjective, and therefore matter on the experience, perspective and feelings of the individual. That does not mean it will be universal.
 
If they have a return policy, I'll be more than happy to compare them side-by-side with my JBL LSR6332 monitors. The lesser pair gets dumped.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if the CLRs "blew away" my current monitors, coincident or not. Having said that, I hope that they *do*, because I really like my current monitors.
 
yek said:
Furthermore, I simply refuse to believe that all engineers from other companies are all idiots or profit-only driven whiteboard fanatics.
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Hold on now. Back up a second. Read more carefully Yek. I didn't say this.

Jay has been very clear with me about this. He knows lots of engineers that understand this stuff. Some work for the big companies. And yes, their creative hands have been tied by the design and marketing philosophies of the big companies they work for. And yes, at many if not all big loudspeaker companies ultimate decision making power rests with non-engineer, profit-only driven, whiteboard fanatics. And as you would expect it pisses off and discourages many of their design people. No true creative wants to embrace the compromise of, and watering down of their life-work.

Having said that, their are other boutique companies like Frazier producing excellent products. Like Frazier they are priced way out of my range. Also like Frazier, their products are not freely available to the retail consumer.

The point is that you and I are about to be able own extremely high end FRFR at a reasonable, middle-class consumer price.

And I feel your angst and distrust. If you only knew how long I've been chewing through FRFR gear and how much doubt the journey has caused me about my ears and sanity. I have wanted to give this part of my musical journey up many times over the years.
 
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