Any tips for cutting through live with FRFR

barhrecords said:
I use a 5 band passive GEQ after the cab block and boost the mids. This makes a great cutting tone.

But you originally said the problem was lack of low mids and girth? Pushing up the mids will make the bass and low mids relatively lower?

Try the 5 band passive and push up the middle and low mids. I would start with 3db low mids, 6db mids. Adjust the amp block level to avoid clipping.

If you can, create all your presets with the CLR on a stick in Free Field mode. When you switch to wedge / tilt, I think you will get better results.
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll give that a try.
 
I play on small stages similar to you.

I have found I need to mix a little of the other guitar players guitar into my CLR. Even though he has a wedge with his guitar in it right next to me, I can't hear him well enough without adding him to my CLR mix.

I have my guitar, my vocal, and the second guitar all going into one CLR in wedge position.
 
dpeterson said:
Some amps just cut more. I had a 16 space all boogie rack back in the 80's / 90's, quad pream, 50/50, lexicon, etc... a guy came over with an original slash signature (first one whenever that came out), and it sounded like I wasn't even playing, no amount of volume could get me over him. Learned a lot that night.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, I had a similar experience in the 90's, I had a 10 space rack rig and joined a band that was covering pearl jam, alice in chains etc and the first band practice the other guitar player used a jcm900 no pedals nothing and it just buried my tone.
I went out and got a Marshall after that and ran like that for years.
 
ok, so you're concerned with you hearing, not the audience. A CLR on a pole will project the sound to your ear better than coming up from the floor (I also think it sounds better). IF this doesn't solve your problem your other guitar player is too DAMN loud. If you can't hear your guitar with the CLR pointing directly at you it's more than a tone issue (obviously my opinion).
My personal take is that what the audience hears is FAR more important than the tone I hear (I'm quite happy with both btw). Before changing my tone on stage, I'd see what my tone was like in the mix from the audiences perspective. If you don't have a wireless, find a friend you trust to be your ears.
Once again, this is my opinion
 
warlockII said:
ok, so you're concerned with you hearing, not the audience. A CLR on a pole will project the sound to your ear better than coming up from the floor (I also think it sounds better). IF this doesn't solve your problem your other guitar player is too DAMN loud. If you can't hear your guitar with the CLR pointing directly at you it's more than a tone issue (obviously my opinion).
My personal take is that what the audience hears is FAR more important than the tone I hear (I'm quite happy with both btw). Before changing my tone on stage, I'd see what my tone was like in the mix from the audiences perspective. If you don't have a wireless, find a friend you trust to be your ears.
Once again, this is my opinion
Click to expand...

I can run direct to FOH for the audience that's no problem and I used to do that in previous band with e-drums and only one guitar and my tones were fantastic.

This new band is more old school, live drums guitar and bass un-mic'd with vocals only going through p.a. I can hear all the other members just fine and there sound isn't overly loud (except for the drummers cymbals)

The thing is I have to alter my tone so much to cut on stage (with limited success) that it's probably going to sound pretty nasty out front if I go direct with the same patches

The last two guitar band I played in was when I was using a jvm and I cut through just fine, all instruments were clear without being overly loud.

So I'm doing something wrong or this is just a situation that won't work.
 
Well, I'd say that even in a tiny venue, (like living room small) a CLR in wedge position faced away from the audience will not be heard very well. That speaker grill has to be pointed at who you want to hear it. Even in our (pretty small) practice room, my band members can't hear my CLR if I use it as a wedge. Monitors are pretty directional, even the CLR's. Now... you can put a CLR on a pole and set it to FF mode, and it will open up quite a bit. That would be the first thing I would do before I cut any thing out of my sound.
Have the other guitar player lay his combo amp on it's back with a couple of books or something under it to put it on an angle facing him (and away from everyone else) and see how well you hear him then...

I'll tell you I don't make many cuts to my presets. Maybe below 60-70Hz in the amp block, and above 9K, but I just have not found the need to do it, and I cut pretty well. Granted, I'm only 1 guitar, but we have multiple sets of keys and vocals going on, and a hard hitting busy drummer and a bass player who fills tons of sonic space. Cut if you have a collision or swirling or muddy sound, but too many guys cut their tone to bits unnecessarily IMO because they read that they should. Sometimes if you can't be heard, it's because your sound is too thin...
800-1.5Khz is where you will really come through in most cases though. You could try boosting there.
 
rickgk said:
Is there any way to measure this, I guess I would have to do a recording.
Click to expand...

I bet there is a spectrum analysis app, which you could use while they play without you. Look for the valleys, that's where you can fit in.
 
Not sure what the frequency center of the middle slider on the 5-band passive GEQ is, but it's in a good place for electric guitar sound. :)

If you want to get radical, shoot an IR of the other guitarist's cab.

Then you can compare apples to apples.
 
Pinkycramps said:
Well, I'd say that even in a tiny venue, (like living room small) a CLR in wedge position faced away from the audience will not be heard very well. That speaker grill has to be pointed at who you want to hear it. Even in our (pretty small) practice room, my band members can't hear my CLR if I use it as a wedge. Monitors are pretty directional, even the CLR's. Now... you can put a CLR on a pole and set it to FF mode, and it will open up quite a bit. That would be the first thing I would do before I cut any thing out of my sound.
Have the other guitar player lay his combo amp on it's back with a couple of books or something under it to put it on an angle facing him (and away from everyone else) and see how well you hear him then...

I'll tell you I don't make many cuts to my presets. Maybe below 60-70Hz in the amp block, and above 9K, but I just have not found the need to do it, and I cut pretty well. Granted, I'm only 1 guitar, but we have multiple sets of keys and vocals going on, and a hard hitting busy drummer and a bass player who fills tons of sonic space. Cut if you have a collision or swirling or muddy sound, but too many guys cut their tone to bits unnecessarily IMO because they read that they should. Sometimes if you can't be heard, it's because your sound is too thin...
800-1.5Khz is where you will really come through in most cases though. You could try boosting there.
Click to expand...

I never used to do anything to my axefx tone in the previous band either, but it was a different animal to this, I think it's a relative thing.
The wedge filled the room no problem in the old band (edrums, one guitar) in tilt mode, and the tone was the same at front of stage as back of room (it's nothing like the directionality of guitar cabs), like I said they are only small venues we are playing.

Other guitar players 1x12 combo (orange ad30) is angled up at his head, it's not overly loud.

I find the spread of the clr amazing, but as soon as the other guys (live drums, guitar, bass) start playing in this new band my tone disappears, it's cool I've got some things to try from this thread.

Maybe I have cut the lows and highs too much and am focussing in on the wrong mid frequency in my attempt to cut better.

Something I used to use many firmwares ago was tyler grunds live frfr parametric eq trick, I might try that again though I thought that started to sound too honky as of a few firmwares ago.

I'll report back.
 
With unlimited IR combinations, PEQs, global EQs, bright switches, speaker proximity control, tone stack swapping abilities, and a freakishly broad array of compressors/enhancers/boost options you can't seem to cut through?
Me neither! =}.
For me two things made life grand. I combined FRFR AND reg speaker cab. This gave me that kick that I was accustomed to for years but with that fat axefx warmth I've grown to love. My Xitone 212 cab is split in half this way and I have zero need to change it.
The second thing I did was properly build patches. Like many others, creating patches and presets began with me sitting in the band room/studio with AxeEdit and setting up rigs. I made killer tones over the last couple years but I didn't build them with drum sets and basses in mind. It sounds like you understand this factor pretty well but simply haven't found that frequency combo you require...
If I were you I would change the IR while you're jamming with the band and see if this is an easy fix instead of a rabbit hole!

Good luck...
 
I play with a guitarist who is using a Fender blues deluxe. It is hard to hear myself with him as well. The Fenders have a definite midrange honk. I was looking at the tone frequency setting on the preamp page for Fender Princeton model. I noticed that it was set to a lot lower frequency than the Mod Marshall JCM800 model. I lowered the tone frequency on the Marshall patch to about 445 and it seems to thicken the sound a bit. I have yet to try this setting live. But I feel that it will compete at least somewhat better.
 
Overthinking. Play with the band and tinker until you stick out. TMB and EQ...push the sliders around until you find your 'nitch'. YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE RESULTS PLAYING BY YOURSELF.

But you'll find your place in the mix.

R
 
electronpirate said:
Overthinking. Play with the band and tinker until you stick out. TMB and EQ...push the sliders around until you find your 'nitch'. YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE RESULTS PLAYING BY YOURSELF.

But you'll find your place in the mix.

R
Click to expand...

Yep I plan to take my laptop to next practice and do exactly that.
 
warlockII said:
ok, so you're concerned with you hearing, not the audience. A CLR on a pole will project the sound to your ear better than coming up from the floor (I also think it sounds better). IF this doesn't solve your problem your other guitar player is too DAMN loud. If you can't hear your guitar with the CLR pointing directly at you it's more than a tone issue (obviously my opinion).
My personal take is that what the audience hears is FAR more important than the tone I hear (I'm quite happy with both btw). Before changing my tone on stage, I'd see what my tone was like in the mix from the audiences perspective. If you don't have a wireless, find a friend you trust to be your ears.
Once again, this is my opinion
Click to expand...

I was going to reply to the last reply the OP made to me but you basically said everything that I was about to say.

Another thing to try is to put the CLR behind you, instead of in front of you.
You might want to raise it on a milk crate or amp stand, to reduce the coupling with the floor (put the CLR into FF mode), and to get it closer to your own ears similar to the way you described the other guitar player's 1 X 12 relative to his ears.
But a pole would be even better.

Still not clear whether you're complaining that *you* can't hear yourself or whether *the other guys* can't hear you.
I'm assuming it's the former though and that once you get that sorted out the CLR's dispersion characteristics will achieve a decent mix for the other guys.

If you have Presets that sound the way you want them to and have the CLR pointed at your head and you still can't hear yourself then the other guys are too loud.
 
Overthinking it. Try some different IRs. You're comparing the far field sound of his amp with a near field IR. You need to find an IR that complements.
 
I'm not exactly sure how your setup differs from mine, but I am standing on a stage 2' in front of a loud drummer with 22" kick and lots of cymbals.

I can place a single CLR as a wedge on the floor directly behind my mic stand and have plenty of volume in reserve to blow my face off. I'm 6'5" so the distance from the CLR to my ears is a pretty good distance. My mic boom has to be fairly long too.

I use unbalanced out 2 to the CLR. I run the front panel output 2 knob on the XL+ at noon to 1'oclock. I can get silly loud in the CLR. So much so the other band members can't hear their own wedge.
 
I'm with Cliff on this. The IR is critical. Try using an IR that is not a 4x12 and see what happens. I find that in some situations that a 4x12 disappears in the mix and sounds distant, but when I switch to a 1x12 or 2x12 IR it is more "in your face". You may find a 4x12 that works for you, but a quick test would be to try an IR of a smaller cab just to see if a radical change in IR's makes a big difference for you. Try Factory cab #22 and see what you get. BTW, one of the more "in your face" 4x12 IR's for me is Factory cab #60.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom