Any tips for cutting through live with FRFR

rickgk

rickgk

Experienced
I use an atomic clr live with the axefx2 and have always had good results playing live with a previous band that was one guitar and used e-drums.
I'm now playing in a band with another guitarist and live drums and am finding that my tone doesn't cut through the mix, obviously I've done the usual and cranked the mids but with limited success.
My tone seems to have very little low end compared to the other guitar, and leads in particular are getting lost even with a 4db boost.
I just purchased fremens presets and have found very little difference between my raw amp tones and his except his generally have more gain than mine.

Please note I don't run through FOH, just the one clr.

I'm hoping everyone that uses FRFR in a full band situation can chime in with their tips for cutting through a dense rock mix.
 
Next time you're at practice, have the other guitarist "sit out" for a minute and see if you're cutting. It's possible that you're both fighting for the same frequencies. Are you listening to the band mix out front or just talking about hearing yourself?
 
How do have the CLR on stage, wedge, on a stick, backline?

I use mine as a wedge and set it to "Tilt" mode.

How are your input / master settings on the CLR? It gets silly loud. You might not have it gain staged correctly.
 
Good question above from Barh.... very important to know. I'd guess you are using as a backline since it's the only source of guitar sound (no PA), and the other guy is playing an amp. If your tones are similar as you said, with him having more gain, that tells me his tone is going to occupy more space than yours (more overtones), so you both may need to adjust, and find your individual tones that work.

Consider what type of guitars and amp rigs you are both playing. Also, what is he playing through? A single CLR has it's work cut out for it against a 4x12....

Warlock is right, individual tone is a different beast than band tone, and the trick is to find your own space in the mix. Listen to yours (by itself with the band) then listen to his. Try to pick out the differences and similarities and adjust yours (or HIS!) to create seperation.

EQ notches are one way to do this (Make a 2-3db cut at 400 on one guitar, make a 3db boost at 400 on the other. Switch and repeat at 800 or 1000).

It also depends on what parts you are playing. Do you need a lot of low end? In many (not all) 2 guitar situations, one guy is playing low, mostly on the 3 bottom strings and the other high with a lot of work on the 3 top strings. This helps the most for finding your space in the mix and the song.
 
Also...

CLR's don't have a lot of low end compared to most guitar cabs or FOH speakers. You need to dial it up pretty decently in my experience. They don't really "thump." I would look towards EQ over straight vol boost in most cases.

It is also always good to know relative vol (DB) levels of both guitars though... if you have a DB meter it can be an eye opener...
 
barhrecords said:
How do have the CLR on stage, wedge, on a stick, backline?

I use mine as a wedge and set it to "Tilt" mode.

How are your input / master settings on the CLR? It gets silly loud. You might not have it gain staged correctly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response

I use it as a wedge set to tilt also.

Input at 1oclock and master at 1oclock,
 
Pinkycramps said:
Good question above from Barh.... very important to know. I'd guess you are using as a backline since it's the only source of guitar sound (no PA), and the other guy is playing an amp. If your tones are similar as you said, with him having more gain, that tells me his tone is going to occupy more space than yours (more overtones), so you both may need to adjust, and find your individual tones that work.

Consider what type of guitars and amp rigs you are both playing. Also, what is he playing through? A single CLR has it's work cut out for it against a 4x12....

Warlock is right, individual tone is a different beast than band tone, and the trick is to find your own space in the mix. Listen to yours (by itself with the band) then listen to his. Try to pick out the differences and similarities and adjust yours (or HIS!) to create seperation.

EQ notches are one way to do this (Make a 2-3db cut at 400 on one guitar, make a 3db boost at 400 on the other. Switch and repeat at 800 or 1000).

It also depends on what parts you are playing. Do you need a lot of low end? In many (not all) 2 guitar situations, one guy is playing low, mostly on the 3 bottom strings and the other high with a lot of work on the 3 top strings. This helps the most for finding your space in the mix and the song.
Click to expand...

He is only using a 1x12 combo amp.

Our tones aren't really similar at all but that's not really by choice on my part, he has much more lows and low mids than me and just seems to cut through alot better.
 
warlockII said:
Next time you're at practice, have the other guitarist "sit out" for a minute and see if you're cutting. It's possible that you're both fighting for the same frequencies. Are you listening to the band mix out front or just talking about hearing yourself?
Click to expand...

Well I think we have very different sounds but not really by design, mine has alot less lows and low mids, which is ok seeing as I am the lead guitarist I guess but mine is just less ballsy less cutting and less thick.
 
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Sorry if you've already answered this, but is this overpowering being experienced through the FOH or are you hearing it on stage? I absolutely know what you're talking about with cymbals during solo's...should be more of an issue to us on stage rather than to the audience though. I try to get out in the crowd during our gigs and the audience thankfully doesn't get that smearing like we do standing right next to the cymbals.
 
Well I don't run the axefx through FOH so I guess if I and the other band members struggle to hear then so would the crowd, bare in mind also the stage we are playing on is so small we are all cramped close together, so it may be that the sound disperses better off stage.
 
I cut at the cab block 100 hz and 6-7k at the cab block. Then I crank it up. By eliminating the top and bottom, your tone doesn't get too tubby or strident when you get your volume up and it doesn't get in the way of the kick drum/bass or the vocals/cymbals. Sits nicely in the mix
 
notalemming said:
Yes, especially when the other guitar has lots of lows & low mids which are also fighting with the bass & the low end of the drums & P.A.
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There isn't any issue with the other instruments cutting or the other guitar just mine, and mine already has way less lows and low mids than the other guitar and he doesn't sound muddy or lost in the mix so I'm not sure where I am going wrong really.

This is just a top40 covers band, each member has been playing the club scene for 15+years so are not inexperienced in live sound.

I was using a JVM410 head and cab in my last 2 guitar live drums band I was playing in and never had trouble being heard.

I'm thinking I might try going back to a real cab to see if that makes a difference. Though I'd prefer not to obviously.
 
i played those types of gigs for a long time with a single CLR and never had any issues. how is it set up? flat on the floor? angled? elevated?
 
jlynnb1 said:
i played those types of gigs for a long time with a single CLR and never had any issues. how is it set up? flat on the floor? angled? elevated?
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Hi the clr is angled up (tilt mode), I never had a problem in the last band I was doing where the drummer used an e-kit and I was the only guitarist, but going back to a full band with live drums, & another guitar has been a bit of a different story.
 
I had a similar'ish issue when I first started using my Friedman ASM with my band who has a guitarist that plays a 100w JCM900.. I too found that I was getting a little lost in the broad scheme of things.. WHAT I DID was I tweaked my ASM and patches so that it could sound as close to his JCM900 as possible.. Sounds kinda silly too replicate, but, I could hear myself a lot better after the tweaks. It makes a WORLD of difference. That could be a starting point.. It certainly worked for me.
 
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