Another option for tape delay that sounds similar?

[Thenewexhibit]

Hey, guys! I love the tape delay a lot; it sounds super great actually! But one problem I'm running into is the tape delay does the pitch shifting when doing the tap tempo, so I was wondering what other algorithms can sound similar to tape with some tweaking? What have you guys found that cops the tape delay sound without pitch shifting artifacts during tap tempo?

 

[phil92]

that's just the nature of any delay: when you're changing the tempo while it's being used, it will affect the pitch.

Really no way around it except for not playing or muting/bypassing the delay while you adjust it

 

[Greg Ferguson]

the tape delay does the pitch shifting when doing the tap tempo

Well... that's a realistic model, and an artifact that we actually count on. NOT doing it would be really bad.

One of the best examples of why it's good was Billy Cobham's Spectrum album in the song Quadrant 4, with Tommy Bolin on guitar. Tommy used an Echoplex tape delay, and would set feedback to infinite and play with the tape head distance as an effect, which really made his solos come alive in the recording.



For our purposes with a modeler, you'd want a pedal assigned to the feedback and delay time.

And, the funny thing to me is I heard youngsters on the Internet saying that Bolin did it with a pitch-shift/whammy-pedal... unh-uh. It's all an Echoplex tape delay. Kids!?

 

[Thenewexhibit]

that's just the nature of any delay: when you're changing the tempo while it's being used, it will affect the pitch.

Really no way around it except for not playing or muting/bypassing the delay while you adjust it

Hmmm, analog sounds pretty close and doesn't exhibit pitch shifting; I haven't tested other models yet. Just the tape has the pitch shifting which I know is intentional.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Well... that's a realistic model, and an artifact that we actually count on. NOT doing it would be really bad.

One of the best examples of why it's good was Billy Cobham's Stratus, with Tommy Bolin on guitar. Tommy used an EchoPlex tape delay, and would set feedback to infinite and play with the tape head distance as an effect, which really made his solos come alive in the recording.



For our purposes with a modeler, you'd want a pedal assigned to the feedback and delay time.

Oh, for sure! I know it was intentionally made that way which is great for sure, but that's why I was asking if anyone had a cool patch or suggestions for other models that can be made to sound similar to the tape without the artifact.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Oh, for sure! I know it was intentionally made that way which is great for sure, but that's why I was asking if anyone had a cool patch or suggestions for other models that can be made to sound similar to the tape without the artifact.

Tape delay is interesting to us because of the modulation and rolloff of lows and highs. Play with some of the other delays to see if one will jump without the change in pitch, then add a touch of modulation to it.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Tape delay is interesting to us because of the modulation and rolloff of lows and highs. Play with some of the other delays to see if one will jump without the change in pitch, then add a touch of modulation to it.

Got ya! Yeah, the tape is awesome! I love the tone, so I need to find one that can get edited a bit to sound like it. My timeline doesn't do the pitch shifting with tap tempo, so I think I'm used to that.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Would be a good feature if constant pitch was selectable in the model

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Would be a good feature if constant pitch was selectable in the model

@Cliff would know how to do that if it's possible.

 

[Larz]

Well... that's a realistic model, and an artifact that we actually count on. NOT doing it would be really bad.

One of the best examples of why it's good was Billy Cobham's Spectrum album in the song Quadrant 4, with Tommy Bolin on guitar. Tommy used an Echoplex tape delay, and would set feedback to infinite and play with the tape head distance as an effect, which really made his solos come alive in the recording.



For our purposes with a modeler, you'd want a pedal assigned to the feedback and delay time.

And, the funny thing to me is I heard youngsters on the Internet saying that Bolin did it with a pitch-shift/whammy-pedal... unh-uh. It's all an Echoplex tape delay. Kids!?

thanks for the tip, love that effect Bolin gets with the Echoplex...

 

[simeon]

the digital delay type doesn't do it, so try copying the parameters (eq, drive, modulation etc) from the tape type and it'll sound similar

 

[yek]

Well... that's a realistic model, and an artifact that we actually count on. NOT doing it would be really bad.

One of the best examples of why it's good was Billy Cobham's Spectrum album in the song Quadrant 4, with Tommy Bolin on guitar. Tommy used an Echoplex tape delay, and would set feedback to infinite and play with the tape head distance as an effect, which really made his solos come alive in the recording.



For our purposes with a modeler, you'd want a pedal assigned to the feedback and delay time.

And, the funny thing to me is I heard youngsters on the Internet saying that Bolin did it with a pitch-shift/whammy-pedal... unh-uh. It's all an Echoplex tape delay. Kids!?

Never realized that he used an Echoplex. Love that album and the guitar parts.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Never realized that he used an Echoplex. Love that album and the guitar parts.

He treated it like another instrument and kept it perched on a stool at the front of the stage so he could get to it easily while playing.

I'm currently listening to Alphonse Mouzon's "Golden Rainbows" from the Mind Transplant album, and you can hear Bolin use the delay like an extension of the guitar to bend notes, shifting the delay times, playing with the feedback to fade-in notes. He was SO good, and virtually unknown now. I can only imagine what sort of music we'd have today if Bolin and Hendrix got together to create music. They'd have pushed the envelope!

Yes about the Spectrum album. Stratus is another song from Spectrum that gets called during jams around here and can stretch ten minutes when we're in the mood; I'm the sort that likes to spice it up and make it heavier, more like Jeff Beck does it. I look forward to when I get to use my FM3 for it.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

Well... that's a realistic model, and an artifact that we actually count on. NOT doing it would be really bad.

One of the best examples of why it's good was Billy Cobham's Spectrum album in the song Quadrant 4, with Tommy Bolin on guitar. Tommy used an Echoplex tape delay, and would set feedback to infinite and play with the tape head distance as an effect, which really made his solos come alive in the recording.



For our purposes with a modeler, you'd want a pedal assigned to the feedback and delay time.

And, the funny thing to me is I heard youngsters on the Internet saying that Bolin did it with a pitch-shift/whammy-pedal... unh-uh. It's all an Echoplex tape delay. Kids!?

I never heard that song before! That's cool! I hear that effect too, which I think is great!

 

[Thenewexhibit]

the digital delay type doesn't do it, so try copying the parameters (eq, drive, modulation etc) from the tape type and it'll sound similar

Are you saying the digital delay algorithm can get close by tweaking the parameters and matching them to the tape delay?

 

[GlennO]

Would be a good feature if constant pitch was selectable in the model

All delays necessarily have a pitch change while modifying the delay time. The faster they slew to the new delay time, the more pronounced the pitch shift. A tape delay has a long slew time, a digital delay has a short slew time. With a digital delay, the trick is to make the slew time short enough that it isn't too noticeable, but not so short that it emits a nasty glitch.

 

[javajunkie]

Use the Stereo Tape delay type, it does not do the pitch glide on tap tempo like the mono tape does.

 

[Smilzo]

that's just the nature of any delay: when you're changing the tempo while it's being used, it will affect the pitch.

Really no way around it except for not playing or muting/bypassing the delay while you adjust it

There are 2 way to change tempo delay: one is to add/cut tape (or buffer dimention, in digital domani). The read speed is the same, so the pitch stay the same. Another approach is slower/faster speed (being tape or buffer lenght the same). This will introduce pitch glitch, until the speed stabilise and read reach the same speed as write.

 

[jamongrande]

@Thenewexhibit: I know what you are searching for, as my last delay unit I owned was a Timeline before I switched over to Fractal gear. I particularly liked having non-pitched altered delay changes for getting glitchy sounds (particularly when used in conjuction with an external midi source cranking out a stream of tempo changes). Even the digital delay will briefly alter the pitch of repeats, though not as drastically as the tape algorithm. I haven't found a delay option yet that doesn't do this (including some of the other delay types).

Some of Simeon's ambient presets can mimic the glitching behavior using things like multiple delay blocks in parallel, but it utilizes a whole preset worth of processing to get there. Here's a video I made a long time ago demonstrating using random tap tempo messages to glitch playback.



Funny enough, what was once a "non-standard" use of the delay has now become standardized in stomp boxes like the Tensor, Count to 5, and Microcosm (I'm just scratching the surface of that one now). The next question is how to make a glitch pedal function in unusual ways.

 

[Budda]

@jamongrande if you want to make a glitch delay thread with how to get weird with various gear, im for it. Thats the only thing I want that the axe doesnt offer like specific pedals.