Andre Flood on why some people think PRS guitars have no mojo

[rossipedia]

Suffering fools is so fun for me! In actuality it isn't suffering at all. It is sport. I do feel a slight tinge of guilt when the fools are out of their league. But when they overstep and throw lame insults the guilt vanishes instantly.

What is quantitative vs qualitative?
Quantitative data is numbers-based, countable, or measurable. Qualitative data is interpretation-based, descriptive, and relating to language or emotional response.

Ahh right, then yeah we're all waiting for the same thing

 

[Rex Rox]

Ahh right, then yeah we're all waiting for the same thing

How is the upper fret access on a PRS which you don't own? Have you ever played one vs a guitar with 24 frets and minimal neck heal? Please do tell.

How is the value based on what you spend on one vs a much less expensive alternative that provides more tone options and better playability?

Dude you already admitted you have no skin in the game. So you are jumping on a bandwagon for exactly why? You apparently just don't like my quantitative arguments or me in general. That's fine I don't like a certain former chief executive or anything his followers believe in either.

The difference is my position is based on fact based evidence. What exactly is yours based on? How many PRS have you played and if you like them so much and think the cost is worth it why don't you own one? I can easily afford several. I would never waste my money on one.

I would rather donate it to charity and buy a guitar for a third of the price, more playable and sounds better.

Again can't wait for your reply. Oops bass player is back from his phone call. Gotta go but I'll check back for what I'm sure will be your gems of wisdom.

 

[Rex Rox]

The substance of my position is pretty evident, just commentary on how some people like to waste their time.

What? The more you type the less sense you make. If you are worried about wasting time then stop replying. Because your responses are certainly a waste of time. They don't even make sense.

 

[Rex Rox]

Off to watch a movie with the family. But seriously this was fun!

Let's do it again soon.

 

[rossipedia]

I feel like you're trying to catch me in some kind of "gotcha", but what the hell I'll bite.

How is the upper fret access on a PRS which you don't own? Have you ever played one vs a guitar with 24 frets and minimal neck heal? Please do tell.

Oh yeah, quite a few actually. I don't own one, but I did play a few quite a few years back. Never had any problems with upper fret access tbh. And yeah I've got all sorts of neck through, set neck, and bolt-on guitars with all different kinds of heels.

How is the value based on what you spend on one vs a much less expensive alternative that provides more tone options and better playability?

Value is entirely subjective. I have a $6000+ guitar, I have a $400 guitar, and all sorts in between. I happen to be fortunate enough where a $1k - $2k guitar doesn't really meet my bar for "expensive", but I realize that it probably does for others. Again, it's subject / perspective.

Dude you already admitted you have no skin in the game. So you are jumping on a bandwagon for exactly why? You apparently just don't like my quantitative arguments or me in general. That's fine I don't like a certain former chief executive or anything his followers believe in either.

Because words matter. When people start making claims that things are "facts" that just... aren't, I'm gonna chime in.

The difference is my position is based on fact based evidence. What exactly is yours based on? How many PRS have you played and if you like them so much and think the cost is worth it why don't you own one? I can easily afford several. I would never waste my money on one.

I've never made any claim that I "like them so much" and think the cost is worth it. I'm stating that if somebody believes one way or the other it's opinion. Not fact. Again: words matter.

I would rather donate it to charity and buy a guitar for a third of the price, more playable and sounds better.

.. to you.

Again can't wait for your reply. Oops bass player is back from his phone call. Gotta go but I'll check back for what I'm sure will be your gems of wisdom.

As I said, I don't have any skin in the game and you seem like you've already got your mind made up.

Have fun at band practice and stay mad bro I'm sure all the PRS enjoyers are losing sleep over your opinions.

 

[Rex Rox]

Because words matter. When people start making claims that things are "facts" that just... aren't, I'm gonna chime in.

If you have guitars with thinner neck heal profiles then they are certainly more accessible then PRS up there. To deny it is not quantifiable. How is the upper fret access on an acoustic guitar compared to any electric? You are losing credibility with that one by any measure of "words matter".

I've never made any claim that I "like them so much" and think the cost is worth it. I'm stating that if somebody believes one way or the other it's opinion.

I never approached this from opinion. I approached it from what is quantifiable. In other words typical pickup configurations of PRS, chunky neck heal, prices that are beyond the reach of many for little return on those quantifiable attributes which are available on other guitars at a fraction of the price.

Your entire response validates my point that your position and the ones you are defending is qualitative not quantitative.

Have fun at band practice and stay mad bro I'm sure all the PRS enjoyers are losing sleep over your opinions.

Band practice was great - thanks! Wood shedded a brand new jazz tune and it sounds great so far. For the record I was never mad. It is amusing you think so. As I said this is sport for me and I enjoy sports - mental and physical.

It is the PRS crusaders whose hair gets set on fire when you call out the sh*tty value prop of their magically imbued instruments that aren't so magical for the money. Just look at the flames in this thread and others when I have maligned their precious b*tches. Who is mad?

Funniest thing of all is that what I would consider to be the best professional guitar players in my book (a qualitative judgement), never played PRS. The only exceptions were the ones that played something else entirely then switched when offered big endorsement deals by PRS.

A curious coincidence don't you think?

 

[Dave Merrill]

So is it actually true that you can't Ignore threads you started? .

 

[skolacki]

So is it actually true that you can't Ignore threads you started? .

Just gotta ignore it the old fashioned way. Your thread went south Dave lol

 

[rog]

So is it actually true that you can't Ignore threads you started? .

You can unfollow the thread. I put one person on ignore, made it much easier for me.

 

[Andy Eagle]

All my partscasters are Warmouth superstrat bodies and Warmouth necks with a variety of pickups (HSH, HSS, and P-Rails with triple shot rings). All have the contoured heals and all are 24 frets. Sorry I don't have time to take pics (I have band practice in an hour). But I'm not sure what pics would prove to you anyway. You are a certified, card carrying PRS diehard that thinks Paul has imbued his overpriced guitars with magic mojo. Where as I just think you drank and continue to drink his funky cool aid.

A better apples to apples comparison would be "What is my favorite production guitar?"

That would be my Gibson M3. I have let many PRS fanboi friends/bandmates play it and to the last one they all agreed it is a superior guitar in terms of versatile tone and playability to their PRS cores. One even has a $5K 509. What he liked most was the significantly lighter weight without sacrificing tone - and he loved the upper fret access.

Go figure. Not everyone that spent on one is a never ending fanboi.

You have no idea. I am a pro tech with 30 + years of experience and I don't particularly favour PRS but I recognise a good instrument when I see one and I have no issues with the price. But I have no issues with $5K + as a reasonable cost for a professional instrument from any quality brand that pays it's people properly. I would seriously doubt your Warmoth has better upper fret access as I have built 50+ Warmoths over the years for people and used the speck you say is better. The heel only gets in the way if you have crappy thumb over technique .

 

[Rex Rox]

PRS pays it's people properly.

So that is the entire sum of quantifiable justification for purchasing one? Got it. I use my charitable contributions differently. Among many other contributions to worthy causes, I give money to our local school district every year to support music education.

But I guess everyone can legitimately feel good when they buy a PRS that they support the 350 employees that work for Paul.

Found these by the way:

A Quality Assurance Inspector at PRS starts at 17.00 an hour (from their own job postings). My kid makes more than that as a server slinging plates for a local catering company.

The average hourly rate for PRS Guitars employees is around $32 to $41 according salary.com. Average - So some make much more and some
make much less. Extrapolating that would seem to mean that a pretty small number of those 350 employees (lets say half & that's generous) is making decent cabbage by today's standards and cost of living.

This has been fun!

 

[Andy Eagle]

So that is the entire sum of quantifiable justification for purchasing one? Got it. I use my charitable contributions differently. Among many other contributions to worthy causes, I give money to our local school district every year to support music education.

But I guess everyone can legitimately feel good when they buy a PRS that they support the 350 employees that work for Paul.

Found these by the way:

A Quality Assurance Inspector at PRS starts at 17.00 an hour (from their own job postings). My kid makes more than that as a server slinging plates for a local catering company.

The average hourly rate for PRS Guitars employees is around $32 to $41 according salary.com. Average - So some make much more and some
make much less. Extrapolating that would seem to mean that a pretty small number of those 350 employees (lets say half & that's generous) is making decent cabbage by today's standards and cost of living.

This has been fun!

You are missing the point and totally clueless.

 

[tobafett]

I've played a few nice PRS guitars - the other guitar player in one of the bands I am in has amassed several super nice ones. I heard all the great comments about the DGT SE, and figured why not try it. I do not want to take my Gibson Goldtop HP out on show runs anymore. For me, the DGT SE plays great, and the pickups are decent and give some good sonic options, no where as many as my HP, but that is ok. The guitar does have some tuning stability issues - my trem is blocked, but I still have to retune quite a bit. I think the tuners may need to be replaced. (I'm using it for demo sessions right now, no biggie - but for live work it does need to be addressed.) Heck my HP had tuning issues until I replaced the robo tuners... The guitar plays well and I enjoy playing on it. Overall, I am pretty happy with the DGT SE, so much so that I just ordered another one. Just my .02.

 

[Rex Rox]

You are missing the point and totally clueless.

Yes you are right Andy. I didn't make one cogent, quantitative argument including the one above which uses facts to directly call into question your own point.

So ashamed of my clueless inability to rebut all the fanatical hyperbola in this thread and posit a valid point.

Have a nice day bud!

 

[Andy Eagle]

Just gotta ignore it the old fashioned way. Your thread went south Dave lol

On the Rox to be precise,

 

[RevDrucifer]

Yes you are right Andy. I didn't make one cogent, quantitative argument including the one above which uses facts to directly call into question your own point.

So ashamed of my clueless inability to rebut all the fanatical hyperbola in this thread and posit a valid point.

Have a nice day bud!

Are you for real? You’ve trashed this thread by shitting all over PRS and anyone who digs the guitars completely based off your own subjective preferences. The way you keep saying “This is fun” as if you’re overlooking a bunch of mindless peons who discovered fire for the first time is nothing but condescending and the way you believe you’re getting “gotchas” on everyone just points to some seriously narcissistic behavior. All you’re doing is saying “No I’m right, PRS’s suck so tell me again why you think they’re good”

And I also sold my PRS after putting my partscasters together. Not interested in even trying another PRS, their switch layouts and necks don’t work for me. As far as build quality and everything else, the SE I got was the first guitar I bought off the shelf in less than 5 minutes after seeing it and the only thing I had to do to it was put 10’s on it and adjust the action/intonation for the change in strings. It was flawless outside of that, I simply didn’t get on with the control layout and neck shape. Personal preference stuff.

And since this seems to matter, I was comparing it to these-

 

[axes]

For my entire musician life I've missed out on PRS. I've had a very early experience with a USA Custom 24 and a CE 22 but I couldn't really understand what made a good guitar back then. PRS just became the brand I didn't care for and never really considered owning one.
Now just about a week ago I was offered a PRS Standard 24 from 1995. I let out my usual sigh when I saw PRS guitars but for some reason this one just stuck with me and I decided to go and try it. And just like that.. a new guitar and a convert. I just LOVE it, I mean, I LOVE IT! After Gibsons, Music Mans, really good Ibanezes and everything else in between I just couldn't believe how lively this guitar sounds. The neck is a dream, everything is just perfect and I actually think it hits way above its paygrade.
Then just a few days ago I got an offer on one of my MM JPs including a trade-in for a 1998 PRS Custom 24 and I did it. And this guitar is also just as good if not even better.
They definitely have their own character to my ears. They sound like a good hot LP with a little bit of Strat and something modern mixed in. They are super versatile but they have this absolutely ridiculous high harmonics going on that I haven't really heard in other instruments so much. They just want to sing and scream and are so lively that it's captivating.
For years I've been uninterested in PRS but now I can confidently say that they're among the best guitars ever made and certainly among the very best I've ever had the privilege to play.

 

[sprint]

AE sporting new Avatar!

 

[Rex Rox]

You’ve trashed this thread by shitting all over PRS and anyone who digs the guitars completely based off your own subjective preferences.

Not subjective - quantifiable value proposition based on their cost to benefit ratio when compared to higher performing and lower cost alternatives.

I have been pretty outspoken about my disdain for PRS' value proposition.

The way you keep saying “This is fun”

I said that twice (sort of). Once replying to a lame insult lobbed my way. The other to inaccurate information put forward as a reason to justify their high cost.

the way you believe you’re getting “gotchas” on everyone just points to some seriously narcissistic behavior.

Self confident yes, narcissistic no. I definitely at my age and level of life achievements have no lack of self esteem. I can also easily admit when I'm wrong when someone makes a valid point. Just ask my wife, bandmates and friends - they point out when I'm wrong all the time!

All you’re doing is saying “No I’m right, PRS’s suck so tell me again why you think they’re good”

Nope:

Remember everyone!!! You are entitled to love your PRS - but if you are trying to say it was a great value compared to many available alternatives based on quantitative reasoning then I am very intrigued as to what your cogent argument will be.

And I also sold my PRS after putting my partscasters together. Not interested in even trying another PRS, their switch layouts and necks don’t work for me.

How would you describe PRS' value proposition compared to your other guitars. Would a $5K PRS be a better value?

Save your money - if you know what to look for you can get 2 (or 3?) very nice guitars for the price of 1 PRS. They will sound just as good (or better), play just as good (or better), look just as good ... for a fraction of PRS' prices.

Much like the guitars on your couch.

Sorry @Dave Merrill I'll leave this thread alone now. Saving even one poor newbie from drinking the PRS cool aid and breaking their wallet to buy a guitar that just doesn't deliver tangible benefit against some really great and much cheaper alternatives then ... 1 newbie saved!!

Most PRS fanatics will never get the message and they always assail the messenger. Its OK I have thick skin. But I won't respond to any more flames - Promise! So anyone that cares to can light me up with impunity now.

 

[Andy Eagle]

There appears to be a troll loose .