Analog Drive Pedals in front of Axe III to get better FEEL, who else is doing this?

sprint said:
Though i often see 12ms as a typical point at which a guitarist starts to "notice" latency (whether latency due to physical distance from amp or digital processing lag or both), I do have the sneaking suspicion that much lower latency values can be "felt" and maybe explains the often heard "I don't know what it is exactly but it just seems different" type comments.
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I honestly thought that too for a long time. It was running my FM3 with wireless IEMs that basically disproved it for me.

Now....I really don't have a clue what it is except to say that my home setup now feels fine to me....and pretty much everything is going against that (e.g., modeling + monitoring through a DAW + often using wireless IEMs).
 
Pedals in front of a Fractal unit are good and work well.

The only ones I personally use are real fuzzes - because there is no buffer before the amp model (like when using a fuzz drive block in III). I will use my Klon with single coils, because it has a magic to it. I have an AnalogMan Sunface fuzz w/NKT-275s that loves the JTM45 amp Fractal model - it truly nails this vintage 60s' guitar hero fuzz tones a la Jimi etc.

EDIT: Just saw Cliff said it in more accurate way, above; "It's impossible to get a buffered device (like a multi-effect) to replicate fuzz pedals because the input impedance of a fuzz pedal is nonlinear. You can get close by using a static input resistance at the input to the device but it will never be exactly the same."

I love that there are no wrong answers using a III or FM9 or FM3. If you love pedals, use them in front, you'll be happy. But the ones in the unit do the job very well! It's a personal taste thing, IMHO.
 
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It’s “fun” as fuzz is considered as the most simple wiring diagram pedal and the go-to when you want to start building your own pedals, and maybe the most difficult one to simulate in the end .
 
Tried running my Tumnus into the front of the FM3. Results were good. Don’t know if I’ll be bringing it to the next jam but yes it acts like a pedal in front of a tube amp. I run it as a low drive boost and it’s a nice alternative to the various drives and boosts in the FM3. Too much to choose from. Unlike the old days when I had to make what I had work.
 
Feflicker said:
@Mark Al @My name is mud what are the links to your bands/solo projects? With exacting requirements that exceed my own major OCD, I have to hear it, I thought I was picky!
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Dude, we just explained that such nuances are not translated when one listens to recordings...

Somehow, I feel people who claim they can't FEEL or don't care the difference are:

1. Their playing style don't appreciate those nuances.
2. They never know or they forgot how wonderful a well tuned tube amp sounds with analog drive pedals, e.g. the tone the feel that oozes at their fingertips and responds musically to the slightly change of picking attack.
3. They had too much cappy experience with horrible tube amps.
4. They never had those ethereal moments in the zone with tube analog gears, which reminds them why they are heads and toes in love with electric guitar in the first place.

When it feels right, the guitar, the amp, the pedal, with the right volume level, man, you just feel musical all over your body... Those moment/experience happens rarely with digital or solid state gears for me, unfortunately (and it's not due to lack of efforts from my end).

Don't get me wrong, digital/SS are really really practical tools to get the job done. For years, I have tried to replace my tube/analog set ups with digital gears, I went all-in for a while, but eventually sobered up from that hang over, e.g. after a long while that I didn't turn on my favorite tube combos, I thought I was happy with my Axe III + PowerCab 212, I was shocked how much better a simple Deluxe Reverb with vol@4 sounds in comparison. Anyway...
 
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Mark Al said:
Dude, we just explained that such nuances are not translated when one listens to recordings...

Somehow, I feel people who claim they can't FEEL or don't care the difference are:

1. Their playing style don't appreciate those nuances.
2. They never know or they forgot how wonderful a well tuned tube amp sounds with analog drive pedals, e.g. the tone the feel that oozes at their fingertips and responds musically to the slightly change of picking attack.
3. They had too much cappy experience with horrible tube amps.
4. They never had those ethereal moments in the zone with tube analog gears, which reminds them why they are heads and toes in love with electric guitar in the first place.

When it feels right, the guitar, the amp, the pedal, with the right volume level, man, you just feel musical all over your body... Those moment/experience happens rarely with digital or solid state gears for me, unfortunately (and it's not due to lack of efforts from my end).

Don't get me wrong, digital/SS are really really practical tools to get the job done. For years, I have tried to replace my tube/analog set ups with digital gears, I went all-in for a while, but eventually sobered up from that hang over, e.g. after a long while that I didn't turn on my favorite tube combos, I thought I was happy with my Axe III + PowerCab 212, I was shocked how much better a simple Deluxe Reverb with vol@4 sounds in comparison. Anyway...
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Huh? I just want to hear the music. Not debate personal experiences had while playing guitar. You seem really dialed in, like you have a strong sense of what you like. Would like to hear your projects 🤷‍♂️
 
Mark Al said:
Dude, we just explained that such nuances are not translated when one listens to recordings...

Somehow, I feel people who claim they can't FEEL or don't care the difference are:

1. Their playing style don't appreciate those nuances.
2. They never know or they forgot how wonderful a well tuned tube amp sounds with analog drive pedals, e.g. the tone the feel that oozes at their fingertips and responds musically to the slightly change of picking attack.
3. They had too much cappy experience with horrible tube amps.
4. They never had those ethereal moments in the zone with tube analog gears, which reminds them why they are heads and toes in love with electric guitar in the first place.

When it feels right, the guitar, the amp, the pedal, with the right volume level, man, you just feel musical all over your body... Those moment/experience happens rarely with digital or solid state gears for me, unfortunately (and it's not due to lack of efforts from my end).

Don't get me wrong, digital/SS are really really practical tools to get the job done. For years, I have tried to replace my tube/analog set ups with digital gears, I went all-in for a while, but eventually sobered up from that hang over, e.g. after a long while that I didn't turn on my favorite tube combos, I thought I was happy with my Axe III + PowerCab 212, I was shocked how much better a simple Deluxe Reverb with vol@4 sounds in comparison. Anyway...
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I appreciate your opinion and am glad you found a setup that provides you with an engaging experience. I don't understand why you can't seem to accept that some users have found it is possible to thoroughly enjoy, be inspired by and get lost in playing through the Axe III without any external pedals. Again, after approaching what I hear from a different perspective, all of the feel, dynamics and other 'nuances' I enjoyed with physical amps and pedals are very much there with the Axe III.
 
JoKeR III said:
I appreciate your opinion and am glad you found a setup that provides you with an engaging experience. I don't understand why you can't seem to accept that some users have found it is possible to thoroughly enjoy, be inspired by and get lost in playing through the Axe III without any external pedals. Again, after approaching what I hear from a different perspective, all of the feel, dynamics and other 'nuances' I enjoyed with physical amps and pedals are very much there with the Axe III.
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Sorry if I may have came across that way. Sometimes I have too strong an opinion…. Unconsciously, I think I really want to motivate/inspire more advancement and innovation in the digital realm. Anyway….
 
I’m the same type of guy @Mark Al , that’s just passionate people, nothing else. Music is a religion to me.

When you prefer something you are not saying that the rest is bad, it’s just “better” (to us almost) .

@Feflicker
As you ask for it

https://n-o-m-a.bandcamp.com/

Here is my main project, where I play all the instruments since I’m a teenager . I started in the mid 90’s. Live I have musicians but I do everything in the records . I ve never been “huge” and I’m part of the underground scene. Everything is home made and I m self taugh for everything so warning, it’s not produced like a korn record 😅. I have done 18 (?) albums with this project , 6 with a female punk grunge band (sassy) where i play bass and drums , 1 with a us/fr punk band where I was bassist .
I m influenced by grunge and alternative music, industrial , but also thrash/death/black … if you have the time you ll see that Noma covers most of the rock genre. In every albums I experiment my recording technique . To pedals in the boards in the first demos , Mesa boogie amps most of the time with a mic , one with a kemper , one with an axe 2 … the latest is with the JP2c and torpedo and the next one already recorded, will be with the axe 3 for bass and guitar .
My songs are not really related to what we talk about here. But if you ask 😅.

But I’m happy to read what mark ai said . It’s like that we want to love our modeler but every time we return to our “real” gear it’s like we rediscover the wheel

You don’t erase 25 years of analog like that, playing all the weeks with cranked stacks in the face . So yeah . When I play with the axe in my studio monitor I don’t have my **** shaking like a tube amp does . That’s a product for recording and don’t break your back after show. That’s why I have an axe, that’s all. Sure you can play guitar with it and only have this at home but. No. I can’t only play with modelers knowing the pleasure it is playing with the real stuff . No one said that the goal of the axe is to snob tubes amps and pedals now.
 
Mark Al said:
Dude, we just explained that such nuances are not translated when one listens to recordings...

Somehow, I feel people who claim they can't FEEL or don't care the difference are:

1. Their playing style don't appreciate those nuances.
2. They never know or they forgot how wonderful a well tuned tube amp sounds with analog drive pedals, e.g. the tone the feel that oozes at their fingertips and responds musically to the slightly change of picking attack.
3. They had too much cappy experience with horrible tube amps.
4. They never had those ethereal moments in the zone with tube analog gears, which reminds them why they are heads and toes in love with electric guitar in the first place.

When it feels right, the guitar, the amp, the pedal, with the right volume level, man, you just feel musical all over your body... Those moment/experience happens rarely with digital or solid state gears for me, unfortunately (and it's not due to lack of efforts from my end).

Don't get me wrong, digital/SS are really really practical tools to get the job done. For years, I have tried to replace my tube/analog set ups with digital gears, I went all-in for a while, but eventually sobered up from that hang over, e.g. after a long while that I didn't turn on my favorite tube combos, I thought I was happy with my Axe III + PowerCab 212, I was shocked how much better a simple Deluxe Reverb with vol@4 sounds in comparison. Anyway...
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Have you ever tried to run the axe fx thru a transparent power amp and guitar cab?
I felt quite the same for some time but I found the culprit was playing thru IRs and monitors/frfr, as soon as I bought a power amp and used a real cab (with its own impedance curve selected) nothing was missing anymore for me.
I still have a small tube amp (a 20w Hiwatt) with a bunch of nice pedals and it's fun to play thru that rig from time to time, but I actually prefer the axe fx's hiwatt sim and I rarely turn the real amp on these days, it mostly gets used when some other guitarist comes for a jam
 
FractalAudio said:
It's impossible to get a buffered device (like a multi-effect) to replicate fuzz pedals because the input impedance of a fuzz pedal is nonlinear. You can get close by using a static input resistance at the input to the device but it will never be exactly the same.
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This makes me feel so less stupid for using stomp boxes with the Axe. My ears told me there was something there, but now the admin says it so it must be true.

I also think there is a psychological “Boost” one can get from plugging in a pedal that should not be discounted.
 
D.B. Walker said:
This makes me feel so less stupid for using stomp boxes with the Axe. My ears told me there was something there, but now the admin says it so it must be true.

I also think there is a psychological “Boost” one can get from plugging in a pedal that should not be discounted.
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Fuzzes. I don't personally hear or feel any difference with distortion pedals (i.e. Tube Screamers).
 
My name is mud said:
I’m the same type of guy @Mark Al , that’s just passionate people, nothing else. Music is a religion to me.

When you prefer something you are not saying that the rest is bad, it’s just “better” (to us almost) .

@Feflicker
As you ask for it

https://n-o-m-a.bandcamp.com/

Here is my main project, where I play all the instruments since I’m a teenager . I started in the mid 90’s. Live I have musicians but I do everything in the records . I ve never been “huge” and I’m part of the underground scene. Everything is home made and I m self taugh for everything so warning, it’s not produced like a korn record 😅. I have done 18 (?) albums with this project , 6 with a female punk grunge band (sassy) where i play bass and drums , 1 with a us/fr punk band where I was bassist .
I m influenced by grunge and alternative music, industrial , but also thrash/death/black … if you have the time you ll see that Noma covers most of the rock genre. In every albums I experiment my recording technique . To pedals in the boards in the first demos , Mesa boogie amps most of the time with a mic , one with a kemper , one with an axe 2 … the latest is with the JP2c and torpedo and the next one already recorded, will be with the axe 3 for bass and guitar .
My songs are not really related to what we talk about here. But if you ask 😅.

But I’m happy to read what mark ai said . It’s like that we want to love our modeler but every time we return to our “real” gear it’s like we rediscover the wheel

You don’t erase 25 years of analog like that, playing all the weeks with cranked stacks in the face . So yeah . When I play with the axe in my studio monitor I don’t have my **** shaking like a tube amp does . That’s a product for recording and don’t break your back after show. That’s why I have an axe, that’s all. Sure you can play guitar with it and only have this at home but. No. I can’t only play with modelers knowing the pleasure it is playing with the real stuff . No one said that the goal of the axe is to snob tubes amps and pedals now.
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Dude this is rad! I like the harsh sawtoothy dirty tones. Very industrial. Sick man, Im gonna download this, I can see this being nice for the drive to work!

I've done 5 full lengths, 5 EPs, and some singles and guest spots/producing here and there. Im the writer/producer type, I consider myself more of a singwriter than a guitar player. Thats why I love the fractal, recorded tones all the time, no noisy amps that I was always fighting to get the eq the way I wanted live. Sounds like the record in my living room 🤘

Latest thing I did (my solo project) is here:



Now, is that a modeler or an amp? Lol, thatll start a big debate.

My other projects were Ignis, Versed in Grey, Dead Light Shines and Moon Haven. Actually have a country EP coming out next month too 🤷‍♂️😅
 
When @My name is mud says "big dirty fuzz" I feel I should post these clips:





Add a variety of IR's and you can take those farther. It was fuzz that moved me to the axe III, so far so good.

Maybe one day I'll try a fuzzrocious demon out front for fun.
 
In front of my FM9 I run an AM Sunface (CV7005), Arcane Analog MKI Bender (OC75+AC125) + Rangemaster (OC71), AM King of Tone (HG both sides), & Wampler Tumnus.

Why? a) I feel like modeling hasn't yet nailed germanium transistors, b) my KOT has more options than are available in the FM9, c) I already have all the pedals, and d) cause why the F**k not?!
 
Prince said:
my KOT has more options than are available
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Same here. I think this model deserves to be updated to give everyone the full potential of the KOT. We have multiple Suhr, Timmy…and nothing more to the “King”!
 
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