Analog Drive Pedals in front of Axe III to get better FEEL, who else is doing this?

Don’t want to be the ass, we already know that the axe is the best unit at this size sound wise etc etc. I m not saying it’s bad. But the main quest is to have the most accurate simulation of effects and amps . His new algorithm is a proof that once again, his main quest is to be the more accurate possible . Some People say “don’t care if the knobs are missing or don’t act like the real deal”, but I think that cliff prefer 10 times something perfect . So if a guy choose a ds1 in the axe, he need to see the 3 buttons that act exactly like the pedal, and now we are the kings .
This is just an example . So the op is not dreaming that his pedals are “different”. The quest is not over ! But yes, with the contain and options, we have already more than enough to built a nice tone . The discussion is more about the authenticity of what is supposed to be modeled.
Yeah I agree. I think Cliff would argue (and others) that some implementation decisions are actually improvements on the real unit, even if means they now behave a little different.
 
Guitar recording tone has been nailed at least a decade ago....

On the other hand, the real-time playing experience in digital world remains to have much left to be desired....
This is what I was waiting for and wondered was the reason for the post. Playing through studio monitors or even an FRFR is never going to 100% replicate a physical amp and cab experience. It bugged me for awhile until I came to that conclusion. Playing through studio monitors is like listening to a CD or recording of the tone. Once I understood and wrapped my head around it, playing through a modeler in any environment became much more enjoyable.

If one must have the interaction with a physical amp and cab to enjoy playing guitar, more power to them. To say that playing in the digital realm leaves a lot to be desired is subjective, there are plenty of guys here including myself who very much enjoy playing guitar through the Axe III into studio monitors. It does take looking at it from the perspective that you are hearing a recorded guitar sound.
 
I have been using 4~5 drive pedals in front of my Axe III for late night practice with headphone for a while now, e.g. treating a Fender tone patch in Axe III as the pedal platform.

I found I really like how things feels with analog pedals in front, i.e. it feels more real.

I have A/B compared a bunch of real analog pedals with the one modeled in Axe III, tone-wise, they can be dialed quite close, but feel wise, the real pedal clearly impart their own characters which is often lost in the digital model. The pedals I compared includes Timmy (V2 and V3), OCD (V2 and GE), Fulldrive V2, Prince of Tone, etc.
I love running my guitar into a pedalboard into the front of the axe III. I mostly use overdrive pedals (GT-OD) and some fuzzes (rat, big muff) and have A/Bd them with the fractals models. I know this probably doesn’t help but I honestly love the sound of both the hardware pedals and the modeled versions in the axe. There is definitely a difference in feel tho when using real pedals. I find that they make things sound a bit more noisy (in a good way). Just make sure you gain stage (i.e. try to have the signal hit around -12dB before and after engaging the pedal) to get the most out of the pedals. I use a DAW to monitor the dBs.
 
Well there’s your Klonish pedal. Haven’t tried this yet but I’m on it tomorrow. The Tumnus Deluxe was my favorite on my tube rig. Especially for stacking into other drives.
 
I don't miss pedals at all. I think something(s) a lot of people don't consider is that the models are 1v1 to their real world counterparts so it takes some tweaking, and that we typically run the amps in the Fractal much hotter than we would real world because there are no volume limitations. Guys will dial up a fender no master and the volume on 7 and not be happy with the results, when real world you'd be deaf.

Not saying that's the OP's experience, or @boyce89976 , but something I've seen time and time again
That's a possibility, but not my experience. I only use amps I'm familiar with (I've had quite a few, haha), and my main amp preset is a two amp preset of the amp I ran live for 6 years... Matchless DC30. I had zero volume limitations with my real DC30 live because it was always in an iso-box, or run with an attenuator, at gigs.

Pedals in front of the Axe sound great. I run drives, modulation, delay, reverb... all in front of the Axe III. It's glorious and sounds just like my real amp.
 
I've been very impressed with the overdrive and distortion pedal models—so much so that I've sold what used to be my three favorite overdrive and distortion pedals because the models sound and feel essentially identical after adjusting for pot taper tolerances.

On the other hand, I have not been able to satisfactorily replicate my fuzz and fuzz adjacent pedals (i.e. Rangemaster) in the Fractalverse. I haven't been able to replicate the glitchy sub octaves and glassy cleanup of a modified Bosstone (think KMA Fuzzly Bear or Trombetta Mini-bone) no matter how much I tweak the bias settings and pre/post eq. Same with the Superfuzz–I can't get the same sound and feel from the octave fuzz, even when paired with an additional fuzz and a compressor. The treble booster has a less vocal quality than mine and feels less dynamic. So for the time being, I've got a modular setup with four fuzz pedals and a Rangemaster clone that I run in front of my FM9 when I want some fuzzy filth. I don't mean this as a knock on Fractal's modeling; I am absolutely floored by the accuracy and flexibility of the amp modeling and the quality of the other effects. Getting an FM3 and then an FM9 has made it easier and more frictionless to pick up my guitar and play, which has helped me significantly improve my playing over the last year.

That said I would be over the moon if we could get some additional fuzz models, especially if they have the same level of realism as the overdrives and distortion models.
 
I get that certain fuzz circuits have a unique loading effect, sag/bloom et al; and there are certainly some unique dynamics in some tube circuits (assuming running at proper voltage and not just a tube with led behind it for show aka “warmth”, but I can’t agree that rather basic circuits like a OCD have any unique “feel” to them that doesn’t otherwise exist in the Axe modeling

More power to anyone who enjoys it, not hurting anything or anyone, but just like with all the Marshall in a box type pedals, I don’t think a simple $100 drive pedal is going to “feel” anymore real than a $2000 modeler....

If it did, I think we all just plug a DLS pedal into a solid state amp and call it a day, and not spend big bucks on high end modelers

Again, not saying the pedals are bad, I’ve owned tons of Crunch Boxes, OCD’s, DLS, Plexidrives et al, and they sound good, but they are still just a pedal emulation of an amp tone, that gives great bang for the buck, but they aren’t doing anything magical
 
I've been very impressed with the overdrive and distortion pedal models—so much so that I've sold what used to be my three favorite overdrive and distortion pedals because the models sound and feel essentially identical after adjusting for pot taper tolerances.

On the other hand, I have not been able to satisfactorily replicate my fuzz and fuzz adjacent pedals (i.e. Rangemaster) in the Fractalverse. I haven't been able to replicate the glitchy sub octaves and glassy cleanup of a modified Bosstone (think KMA Fuzzly Bear or Trombetta Mini-bone) no matter how much I tweak the bias settings and pre/post eq. Same with the Superfuzz–I can't get the same sound and feel from the octave fuzz, even when paired with an additional fuzz and a compressor. The treble booster has a less vocal quality than mine and feels less dynamic. So for the time being, I've got a modular setup with four fuzz pedals and a Rangemaster clone that I run in front of my FM9 when I want some fuzzy filth. I don't mean this as a knock on Fractal's modeling; I am absolutely floored by the accuracy and flexibility of the amp modeling and the quality of the other effects. Getting an FM3 and then an FM9 has made it easier and more frictionless to pick up my guitar and play, which has helped me significantly improve my playing over the last year.

That said I would be over the moon if we could get some additional fuzz models, especially if they have the same level of realism as the overdrives and distortion models.
Have you tried playing with the input impedance setting in the Input 1 block? That makes a huge difference as far as replicating the cleanup characteristics of a fuzz. Of course, if you're using a wireless or any pedals in front of the Axe/FM9 it may not make much of a difference.
 
Have you tried playing with the input impedance setting in the Input 1 block? That makes a huge difference as far as replicating the cleanup characteristics of a fuzz. Of course, if you're using a wireless or any pedals in front of the Axe/FM9 it may not make much of a difference.
Yep, I found that switching to 22k+capacitor and changing the clip type to germanium helped get the treble booster closer than I was able to achieve with the FM3. TBH I'm not sure whether the difference between the pedal and the model is the modeling or the different impedance (pedal is ~10k). Going from the fixed impedance FM3 to the variable impedance FM9 made a noticeable improvement in how the fuzz pedals behave, but the bloom/sag/sputter still isn't quite on par with the physical pedals.
 
Put me in the no dirt pedals camp. Theres cool ones out there but ive found my gnarly sounds and cant be bothered.
I have had the same Ibanez MSL Metal Screamer since 1985 and I know what it sounds like in front of nearly any amp. That pedal has been something of a security blanket. However... I find that I am able to dial in sounds in the Axe Fx that are just awesome and the problems that the pedal fixes are already addressed. That and the drive pedals in the Axe Fx make my board redundant.

Being the insecure guitarist that I am, I still keep my simplified pedal board plugged in, even if I don't use it. Dumb, but honest.
 
Yep, I found that switching to 22k+capacitor and changing the clip type to germanium helped get the treble booster closer than I was able to achieve with the FM3. TBH I'm not sure whether the difference between the pedal and the model is the modeling or the different impedance (pedal is ~10k). Going from the fixed impedance FM3 to the variable impedance FM9 made a noticeable improvement in how the fuzz pedals behave, but the bloom/sag/sputter still isn't quite on par with the physical pedals.
It's impossible to get a buffered device (like a multi-effect) to replicate fuzz pedals because the input impedance of a fuzz pedal is nonlinear. You can get close by using a static input resistance at the input to the device but it will never be exactly the same.
 
It's impossible to get a buffered device (like a multi-effect) to replicate fuzz pedals because the input impedance of a fuzz pedal is nonlinear. You can get close by using a static input resistance at the input to the device but it will never be exactly the same.
I saw in a video that another modeler (i think it was the QC) has a knob that simulates the guitar volume roll-off in the fuzzes and a switch to select single coil or humbucker, so I assume they modeled the whole guitar-fuzz impedance interactions.
I don't know if it's realistic and/or if it sounds good though, never tried one in person, but maybe it could be a good approach to solve the problem
 
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It's impossible to get a buffered device (like a multi-effect) to replicate fuzz pedals because the input impedance of a fuzz pedal is nonlinear. You can get close by using a static input resistance at the input to the device but it will never be exactly the same.
Ah, that's interesting. Thank you for the response. Just spitballing here, because this is not at all my area of expertise, but I s it possible to work around that constraint by doing something like what Spaceman does with their fuzzes? My recollection is that their fuzz pedals have a 1M input impedance, and have a built-in version of the AMZ pickup simulator circuit immediately after the input. (Possibly) as a result, their fuzz pedals still behave like traditional fuzz pedals when placed after a buffer. Obviously it won't load down the pickups the same way that a traditional fuzz would, but they do still sound and feel like a traditional fuzz pedal to me.
 
One thing about pedals: they will pretty much always have a higher noise floor than the axe. Take that away and your brain may be fooled into thinking the cleaner sound is inferior. Just a thought.
 
One thing about pedals: they will pretty much always have a higher noise floor than the axe. Take that away and your brain may be fooled into thinking the cleaner sound is inferior. Just a thought.
Nay.... I was switching among a few pedals last night, Timmy V3, Barber CDD and GC, FD2. Timmy V3 impart certain loose dynamic feel when plucking the strings, CDD would feel different even when I switch between different modes within this pedal (as described in the manual), etc....

These things may be considered subtle but I am quite sensitive to them, and they make a big difference to me in the playing experience. The change of feel fundamentally affect how I play/approach the playing, I often switch to a different pedal, NOT due to craving for its tone but how it feels.

One thing is for sure, the digital modeled pedals and the real thing do feel different more often than not, whether one cares about such difference is completely subjective though.
 
Though i often see 12ms as a typical point at which a guitarist starts to "notice" latency (whether latency due to physical distance from amp or digital processing lag or both), I do have the sneaking suspicion that much lower latency values can be "felt" and maybe explains the often heard "I don't know what it is exactly but it just seems different" type comments.
 
It's impossible to get a buffered device (like a multi-effect) to replicate fuzz pedals because the input impedance of a fuzz pedal is nonlinear. You can get close by using a static input resistance at the input to the device but it will never be exactly the same.
Ah

It can explain why the dist sim in whatever product are never really accurate .
I m not sure it concern only the fuzz ones. I remember the difference between the boss pedals and the gt6/gt8 etc . They said they contains all the pedals, but the pedals sound better separately.

Against that, in the helix the “industrial fuzz” is pretty well done , so there is maybe a way to have big dirty fuzz in modelers .

I have done my best to find a bunch of extreme fuzz sound recently with the axe based on my pedals …



I had fun with the band Electric wizard recently, the tone is really dirty and I like it.



You can have this tone with the boss fz2 or the behringer super fuzz , but with the axe is more complex
 
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