Amps & Cabs: On Presenting Information

danielworks said:
It's a time consuming task browsing amps and having to figure out what works fine together.
Please, not again the story of "what sounds better for you" ... it can take hours and hours to browse 1.000 cabs
It would be cool just clicking in a JC-120 or a Fender Twin combo and having the respective cabs.
To be honest, I always have a little hard time matching Fender combos.
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Please read the earlier posts from @sprint again.

You are not choosing a CAB, you are choosing an IR which is much more than just a cabinet with a speaker.

If you don't understand how important the mic and mic placement are to the IR, just switch over to DynaCabs for a few minutes and note the extreme amount of influence from both mic choice and placement.

You are dialing in a mic'd amp tone, not an amp in the room tone. While you could argue that there is a "correct" or even "suggested" speaker cabinet (don't forget many amps are only heads, so what is correct then?) for the amps, there is not and never will be a "correct IR", because an IR is not only a cabinet and a speaker.

My advice: find a handful of IRs that work for you. Only use those unless you find a scenario where they don't do what you need.

I've been using Fractal for 10+ years and this method is a really good approach.

I'm done beating this dead horse... Moving on :)
 
People just want a fast starting point. Currently the fastest way is to look at the amp guide or wiki and load the suggestions.

A quicker way from the hardware is welcome. It’s been requested for years but we don’t have it at this time.
 
unix-guy said:
Please read the earlier posts from @sprint again.

You are not choosing a CAB, you are choosing an IR which is much more than just a cabinet with a speaker.

If you don't understand how important the mic and mic placement are to the IR, just switch over to DynaCabs for a few minutes and note the extreme amount of influence from both mic choice and placement.

You are dialing in a mic'd amp tone, not an amp in the room tone. While you could argue that there is a "correct" or even "suggested" speaker cabinet (don't forget many amps are only heads, so what is correct then?) for the amps, there is not and never will be a "correct IR", because an IR is not only a cabinet and a speaker.

My advice: find a handful of IRs that work for you. Only use those unless you find a scenario where they don't do what you need.

I've been using Fractal for 10+ years and this method is a really good approach.

I'm done beating this dead horse... Moving on :)
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In the age of DynaCabs, being this obtuse about IR vs cab is an active choice.
 
usersnoozer said:
I'm sorry sir, this thread has reliably informed me that what you want is literally impossible.
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it is literally impossible right now.

maybe it will be possible in the future.

many are presenting ideas of what to do for now since it is literally impossible right now.
 
While this is a valid request, and I can definitely see the merits for it, how exactly would this be done? If the Amp block and Cab block were combined into one, it would be seem to be a fairly simple thing to assign IRs to an amp model, just as the SIC's are.

The thing that hasn't really been discussed is the fact that the Cab block is separate from the Amp block. In order for an amp model to load with the 'appropriate' cab/IR, the Amp block would have to load/change the IR(s) in the Cab block IR slot(s). How would this be accomplished and is it even possible within the current system?
 
JoKeR III said:
While this is a valid request, and I can definitely see the merits for it, how exactly would this be done?
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Imagine if there was a library of amp/cab block pairs that you can draw upon to quickly drop an amp and cab block pair into a preset. That amp/cab pair library could be populated from the factory with some popular pairs, and you could add to it with your own favorites. This would be similar to a block library, but since it would only require a single click to drop the amp/cab block pair into the grid (including the appropriate SIC), it would be more efficient than creating amp and cab blocks, making a selection from the amp block library, then somehow searching through the cab block library for the matching cab.

It's not the highest priority usability issue in the Fractal world, but it is an area where some other modelers have a more streamlined workflow. Done right, it could potentially speed up the process of building Axe-FX presets, even for Axe-FX veterans. It might also be a more approachable way to build presets for newcomers.
 
Will Chen said:
No shortage of users across all modeler brands who will spend days on forums asking questions, weeks watching instructional videos, and hundreds of dollars on IRs and premade presets rather than an hour or so reading a manual and twisting some knobs.
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An hour for an amp tone is the quick time in your example?
 
GlennO said:
Imagine if there was a library of amp/cab block pairs that you can draw upon to quickly drop an amp and cab block pair into a preset. That amp/cab pair library could be populated from the factory with some popular pairs, and you could add to it with your own favorites. This would be similar to a block library, but since it would only require a single click to drop the amp/cab block pair into the grid (including the appropriate SIC), it would be more efficient than creating amp and cab blocks, making a selection from the amp block library, then somehow searching through the cab block library for the matching cab.

It's not the highest priority usability issue in the Fractal world, but it is an area where some other modelers have a more streamlined workflow. Done right, it could potentially speed up the process of building Axe-FX presets, even for Axe-FX veterans. It might also be a more approachable way to build presets for newcomers.
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I appreciate you giving the idea an honest intellectual shot.
 
Nobody is saying it, so I will. Fractal really is a PRO product, made for techs and engineers with maximum flexibility. It isnt tailored to people who dont know common/basic things about gear. I dont care if they evolve and cater to that crowd, so long as they dont dumb it down to Helix levels and take away all the options. Its "ok" that its that way. There are lots of options now for beginners and people who just want plug/play simplicity.
 
usersnoozer said:
Spend some time here and you'll realize that actually the loudest ones against usability improvements:

  • are over 50
  • don't gig
  • don't record
  • don't listen to music made after 2000.

This is not the crowd that should be dictating user experience for pros/semi-pros/weekend warrirors.
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Ok? That could be true, I've been here a while, I dont agree, but Im not running a study and dont see how the point is relevant.

Do you disagree with the point I made? That the product was designed for techs and audio engineers, and there are other products that cater more to beginners?

Again, personally, Im fine with making it easier just not at the cost of the flexibility.
 
usersnoozer said:
Spend some time here and you'll realize that actually the uloudest ones against usability improvements:

  • are over 50
  • don't gig
  • don't record
  • don't listen to music made after 2000.

This is not the crowd that should be dictating user experience for pros/semi-pros/weekend warrirors.
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you can save your BS age descrimination man - there has clearly been misunderstanding on terms in relation to this topic - scuze me for carefully attempting to clarify.
 
Feflicker said:
Ok? That could be true, I've been here a while, I dont agree, but Im not running a study and dont see how the point is relevant.

Do you disagree with the point I made? That the product was designed for techs and audio engineers, and there are other products that cater more to beginners?

Again, personally, Im fine with making it easier just not at the cost of the flexibility.
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I disagree, but your point is fair enough.

sprint said:
you can save your BS age descrimination man - there has clearly been misunderstanding on terms in relation to this topic - scuze me for carefully attempting to clarify.
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If you're not more than two of these bullet points, then you're not who I'm talking about.
 
usersnoozer said:
Spend some time here and you'll realize that actually the loudest ones against usability improvements:

  • are over 50
  • don't gig
  • don't record
  • don't listen to music made after 2000.

This is not the crowd that should be dictating user experience for pros/semi-pros/weekend warrirors.
Click to expand...
Better to be any of those, than be a Usersnoozer. :p
 
usersnoozer said:
If you're not more than two of these bullet points, then you're not who I'm talking about.
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pretty much 4 for 4 - like it even matters given the subject - guess I'm disqualified from participation in what seems to have somehow become your thread, with some kinda weird rules about who can say what - disregard any mindless musings I may have had on this subject - back to the 70s music threads for me

Rock On! - Ace Frehley rules!
 
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usersnoozer said:
Spend some time here and you'll realize that actually the loudest ones against usability improvements:

  • are over 50
  • don't gig
  • don't record
  • don't listen to music made after 2000.

This is not the crowd that should be dictating user experience for pros/semi-pros/weekend warriors.
Click to expand...

I am none of these but I just don't see the point to this particular issue. Why force anyone unable to put a couple of hours in on building a basic amp/cab tone to waste time selecting drives/effects/IO options/etc.? Just give them a good-sounding preset that does not require any research with the amp/cab/mic already set up plus all of that other stuff. Another option is to just select a Cab Block and use Dyna-Cabs. There are only 39 of them and they can be scrolled through using the Value wheel on the front of the unit in about 2mins.

If you did go with amp/cab pairing what design assumptions would you recommend for pairings that are not currently available in the presets?
  • Would you pair the amp block with the speaker block that would have originally been paired with the real amp when it was released (what if there were multiple options or what if the original cab sounded like crap)
  • Would you standardize on an SM-57 mic (or something else)
  • Would you standardize on a single cab in the block since that is how it would have been with the real amp (or 2 if it was a full stack)
  • Would you standardize on Dyna-Cabs
    • If not just Dyna-Cabs
  • Would it be limited to Fractal IRs or are all of the third-party IRs that are in the fractal library an option (If so how do you decide whose V30 loaded 4x12 cab to use)
    • AB — AustinBuddy
      CEL — Celestion
      DB — Dr. Bonkers
      JM — Jay Mitchell (farfield IRs)
      ML — ML Sound Lab
      OH — OwnHammer
      RW — Red Wirez
      TAF — The Amp Factory
      TS — Chris Traynor and James Santiago
      VH — Valhallir.at
      YA — York Audio

This is the issue, all of these IRs fit the bill for pairing with the 1987X Jumped Marshall. Each has its unique sound. The one that sounds good to me may sound like garbage to you. Which one do you pick to be the definitive recommended sound of this amp?


ab.jpg

G12M (GREENBACK)
  • 036 — 4x12 BASKETWEAVE G12M20 (RW) — "'68 Marshall Basketweave 4x12 loaded with 20-watt Celestion Heritage G12Ms. Brown sound all around"
  • 037 — 4x12 BASKETWEAVE G12M25 (RW) — "'68 Marshall Basketweave 4x12 loaded with vintage Marshall-labeled 25-watt Celestion G12Ms. For those who care, these beauties have T1221 frames and Pulsonic 003 "lead" cones"". UltraRes in firmware 15 and later
  • 038 — 4x12 1960A G12M (RW) — "Slant Marshall 1960 loaded with four 25-watt Celestion G12Ms, otherwise known as "Greenbacks""
  • 054 — 4x12 PRE-ROLA 55 M160 (ML) — Based on a 4x12 Marshall 1935 cab with G12M 55Hz greenbacks, UltraRes (Cab Pack 20). Previously: 4x12 MILLS 12K (OH)
  • 055 — 4x12 PRE-ROLA 75 M160 (ML) — Based on a 4x12 Marshall 1960 cab with G12M 75Hz greenbacks, UltraRes (Cab Pack 20). Previously: 4x12 SLM BLUE (OH)
  • 058 — 4x12 TV MIX C1 (ML) — IR mix, based on a 4x2 Marshall TV with G12M25 greenbacks, UltraRes (Cab Pack 8). Before firmware 18: 4×12 Slm M75 (OH)
  • 059 — 4x12 TV MIX C4 (ML) — IR mix, based on a 4x2 Marshall TV with G12M25 greenbacks, UltraRes (Cab Pack 8). Before firmware 18: 4×12 Slm V30 (OH)
  • 060 — 4x12 FRACTAL GB M160 — Mark Day's custom 4x12 with Greenbacks (non-stock), Beyer M160 mic, UltraRes (Cab Pack 10, 4x12 Fractal Gb 160 2B). Before firmware 18: 4×12 20w
  • 069 — 4x12 PRE-ROLA GB C414 — Marshall with 4x12 Pre-Rola Greenbacks, UltraRes (Cab Pack 6)
  • 070 — 4x12 BEATLE GB — Vox Beatle 4x12 with greenbacks, UltraRes (Cab Pack 6)
  • 101 — 4x12 BASKETWEAVE GREEN MIX — '72 Marshall 4x12 with four 12" G12M (greenback) speakers
  • 103 — 4x12 BASKETWEAVE TV MIX — Early 70s Marshall 1960 TV angled tall cabinet with four 12" speakers. This is a favorite cab of many Axe-Fx users (but not UltraRes)
  • 115 — 1x12 NUCLEAR TONE MIX — Swart Atomic Space Tone cabinet, open back, 1x12 Mojotone British Vintage Series BV-25m speaker, UltraRes (Cab Pack 10)
  • 127 — 4x12 LERXST R121 — Mojotone Alex Lifeson Lerxst ported 4x12 cabinet with greenbacks (works well with Marshall Silver Jubilee), UltraRes, captured using the Mic+DI method (Cab Pack 14). Before firmware 19: 4x12 Lerxst Mix
  • 131 — 4x12 TV MIX #1 — Marshall 1960 TV angled tall cabinet with four 12" speakers, mixed microphones, UltraRes (Cab Pack 14)
  • 132 — 4x12 TV MIX #2 — Same as #131, with more bite
  • 147 — 4x12 MAR-CB M-BB-55 MIX (OH) — 1970's Marshall 1960B "checkerboard" 4x12 cabinet, with 12" Pre-Rola black back G12M speakers, UltraRes
  • 148 — 4x12 MAR-PR-M20B FULL (OH) — 1970's Marshall 1960B "checkerboard" 4x12 cabinet, with 12" 1966 pre-Rola Celestion G12M-20 (75 Hz cone) speakers, UltraRes
  • 151 — 1x12 VINTAGE MARS MIX (TAF) — Marshall 1x12 cabinet with a G12M, UltraRes
  • 158 — 4x12 MARS BW G12 ROOM MIX (TAF) — Marshall Basketweave 4x12 with Pre-Rola G12M speakers, UltraRes. Specifically intended to be used in mixes in the box
  • 175 — 4x12 TV 160 B — Marshall 4x12 TV (Tall Vertical) cabinet, G12M speakers, Beyer 160, UltraRes (Cab Pack 14). Specifically intended to be used in mixes in the box
  • 176 — 4x12 TV 57 D — Marshall 4x12 TV (Tall Vertical) cabinet, G12M speakers, Shure SM57, UltraRes (Cab Pack 14). Specifically intended to be used in mixes in the box
  • 184 — 4x12 GREENBACK MIX — Mid-1970s Marshall 4x12 of unknown model, with four greenbacks (Cab Pack 22), UltraRes
  • 189 — 4x12 G12M CREAMBACK MIX (CEL) — Celestion's G12M Creamback speaker in a 4x12 cabinet, UltraRes
 
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