Amp block GEQ vs PEQ vs Global EQ

TCW

TCW

Member
Hey All, I'm hoping for a little better understanding setting up my rig for live use playing through FRFR. I play through studio monitors at home and all my presets sound great. factory and user and one's downloaded from axe change. But when I get to my bands studio and play live it's a different story. I play through 2 EV ELX 112p's through output 2 on stage and output 1 direct to FOH with the band and most presets are a little boomy and I get lost in the mix.
I have been reading tons of threads and Wikki about FRFR. It seems most people put a PEQ block in there presets and bring up the mids to prevent getting lost in the mix and most people use lo and hi resonance and lo cut and hi cut freq. to help with the boomy sound.
My 2 main questions are. 1. there is lo and hi cut on the amp block and the cab block. Do I just adjust 1 of them or both the same ? and if you adjust 1 which one and why? and number 2. what are pros and cons of the way to EQ. i read most people only use amp block GEQ as a last resort. Why is a PEQ better to use than the amp block GEQ or is it better to just use a global EQ ?
I am currently using the amp block GEQ and bringing up the mids a bit until I'm setting better in the mix. but this a trial by error task. I am trying to learn and understand more about using this AXE Fx 2. I am a old school 80's hair band guy that has used tube amps all his life and I got my Axe Fx 2 about 9 months ago and I have been on a new learning experience ever since. Thank you for any help you can send my way....
 
Lo cut in the amp block is before preamp distortion, this can cut out mud in the amp. You can restore some of it back post. GEQ is fine, for broad strokes. PEQ can be more surgical. Global EQ will effect all presets not just one.
 
For this purpose is better to use a EQ block i stese of the amp GEQ because You'll be able to switch on and off as you wish .... You don't nerd to enter the amp , go to GEQ , blablabla...

BUT if your sounds are boomy with PA , even if adjustment are required switching network differenti systems ( home-gig ) , probably you are tweaking your presets at headroom levels .... This is no good if you are planning to play live...
And Playng with BASS and drums .... You nerd to switch off some lows and maghe completely sub-lows ... You can't compete with BASS and drum in This frequencies ... It'a always a no win
 
Noriuky73 said:
You can't compete with BASS and drum in This frequencies ... It'a always a no win
Click to expand...


...and should never be a fight in the first place
thumbsup.gif
 
The Sound guy usually dials in the tone through the PA very well. The boomy sounds are mainly in my 2 EV ELX 112p's I use on stage. So I should have said my stage mix is a bit boomy not the FOH.
Thank you for you responces. I totally understand I cant compete with the bass and drum frequencies. Thats why I I'm currently using the GEQ to bring up some mids. My question is what is the best way to do this . GEQ - PEQ - Global EQ and why.
Thank you javajunkie and Noriuky73 for your explanations, also can someone give me some guidance on setting up a PEQ block for this to try. i'm new at this and there is a steep learning curve to this compaired to using a amp.
 
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I use Global EQ to compensate for different rooms. If one preset is suddenly boomy, they usually all are, so I adjust the global for my onstage monitor and it usually does the trick.

It's important to make sure you create your tones with that Global EQ flat so you can adjust it later. Make sure to reset it when you go back home or whatever. Try to create your tones always in the same room and volume so there is some sort of constant.

I'm sure you've read that presets created at low bedroom volumes tend to have too much bass and treble when turned up to stage volumes, so keep that in mind as well when you create. Then you won't always be dumping 250 and below and 6k and above :)
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
I use Global EQ to compensate for different rooms. If one preset is suddenly boomy, they usually all are, so I adjust the global for my onstage monitor and it usually does the trick.

It's important to make sure you create your tones with that Global EQ flat so you can adjust it later. Make sure to reset it when you go back home or whatever. Try to create your tones always in the same room and volume so there is some sort of constant.

I'm sure you've read that presets created at low bedroom volumes tend to have too much bass and treble when turned up to stage volumes, so keep that in mind as well when you create. Then you won't always be dumping 250 and below and 6k and above :)
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Thanks Chris. I have read lots of your posts and watched lots of your you tube videos. You have been very helpful.
Can I ask when you build your presets do you adjust the hi and low cut parameters in you amp and cab blocks or just use the default settings and use the global EQ.
I make my presets in a 12x22 ft. home studio through Yamaha HS7's. and my band rehearse's in a in a larger room where I use my 2 EV ELX 112p's.
Are music is somewhat Classic rock and old school metal. my main go to amp is the Friedman hb and hbe.
thanks for any help you can send my way.

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Amp GEQ for fundamental corrections
GEQ or PEQ for tone shaping and / or sweetening
Global for minor corrections / compensations when performing live
 
TCW said:
The Sound guy usually dials in the tone through the PA very well. The boomy sounds are mainly in my 2 EV ELX 112p's I use on stage. So I should have said my stage mix is a bit boomy not the FOH.
Thank you for you responces. I totally understand I cant compete with the bass and drum frequencies. Thats why I I'm currently using the GEQ to bring up some mids. My question is what is the best way to do this . GEQ - PEQ - Global EQ and why.
Thank you javajunkie and Noriuky73 for your explanations, also can someone give me some guidance on setting up a PEQ block for this to try. i'm new at this and there is a steep learning curve to this compaired to using a amp.
Click to expand...

Using a PEQ to fix a problem with frequencies is really a good way ...
SO if your experiencing boominess I suggest to use the 2nd freq with a very narrow bandwith ( narrower is better ) and instead to trying to cut you need to increase all the way up this freq ... so +12db
That's because you need to know where actually is the freq area of your interest . So now you have to swip this bandwith trough all the spectrum . In your case I thing between 150to 250 hz going really slow
make this operatiuon 2-3 times and I assure youìll be certain of whivh frequencies is responsible :)
OK !! now it's time to cut !! ... without touching the "lenght " of the bandwith you can cut this problem .... only problem is being exagerate in cutting ... I think something between -3 \ -6 db can be enough

Now .. if you're not feeling this boomines is gone it's really time for a HIGHPASS !!
Do you remember we started with freq 2 ?? that's because always is a good idea to let te first and last freq for hipass\lowpass purpose
take the firt freq and put hipass mode ... then put the freq all the way at you left ( usually 20 Hz ?! ) and start increasing the frequencies very slow ... when you experience that the lows are completley gone , meke a little step back ... experiment ... usually is good to take away until you don't feel the lows going around with the "thumb" and then come back few Hz but is depending on your purpose and as I think you need something more drastic.

Don't be afraid to experiment ... there is out there some "rules" that seems to be writed in the stone ... but really there is no rules
another really good use for PEQ ( really needed in the digital domain ) is to put a PEQ to tame the harshness and fizzz ... completly the inverse , put the last freq to block \ LOWPASS and swip from 20Kh ...

Usually if you cut before 80hz and after 12000 hz you will hardly able to ear the difference in a band .
With Hi-gain sounds you can go further and cut until 7000\8000 Hz ... but as usual there is no rule

Hope this can help you
 
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The most reliable way to fix the problem is to dial in your tones through your EVs at gig level, in the mix (band playing along with you, or similar recorded backing material). With the current firmware, you'll probably be able to do that with just the basic amp controls.
 
the advantage of using the global eq, is that there is a separate one for each output. so you can eq your monitors and the foh feeds differently. i leave my global flat on the set of outs i use for recording and my live monitors (which sound very similar to my studio monitors). i adjust the global on the outs that go to foh by reducing bass and treble like this - 31, 63, 8 and 16 all at -6db. 125 and 4 at -2db.

if you're hearing boomyness from your monitors, then it should be a simple fix to just reduce the bass in the global eq. if you get the chance...try playing some music through them at gig volume. this will help you identify any problem frequencies and "flatten" the response a bit. what you do with the global eq for the foh pair is up to you, but i've found my eq curve has served me very well over the last few years and my rig has sounded great through a variety of pa's without much work needed by the soundman
 
Make sure to turn off the full range switch on the ev live x. I have them. I global out the boom as well ie global eq.


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