AM4 more expensive in Europe

[dji]

Perhaps Sukh could explain the profit and warranty arrangements? Does Fractal charge G66 the $699 per unit US price, meaning G66 has to charge profit on top of the US price? In other words, are they just a buyer reselling Fractal's products? That would be disappointing in a sole distributor arrangement. Otherwise I assume the additional costs are because of the warranty. Warranty in the UK is optional, not mandatory as it is in the EU, and could therefore be offered as optional to UK customers to ease the difference - could you consider that? Otherwise it amounts to mandatory insurance for UK customers.

For ease of reference, the US delivered price is around $787. In UK it is $1056 at current exchange rate. Even after duty, VAT and shipping there is a significant price difference.

And for those of you who might think I am a G66 basher, I am not - I bought my FM9 from them and was very happy with their service (despite the high price!) and Sukh has always been very polite, courteous and helpful. I am genuinely interested in what the costs are, due to the significant difference.

Did the math and added transferable warranty (take a distributor percentage and the transferable part you'll also need to add in, so not the Fractal 10%), the 30-days-money-back compared to 15 in the US, VAT, shipping, and duty, that's a price range around 1010-1030$ - that's 20-40 $ difference.

That's not a "significant" price difference; that's the same price as in the US depending on the dollar-rate that drops up and down.

But yeah, you don't need to like that additional service

 

[Richard_G]

While eagerly refreshing the tracking status of my AM4 shipment from G66, I’m convinced it will be worth every penny.

 

[playerone]

Have a great experience buying from G66, support is also outstanding. I think it's totally worth premium. In any casse it's not cheaper to buy from US and pay import taxes / shipping by yourself.
Yeah, I wish we have US prices, but it's not related only to Fractal.

 

[lauke-lux]

I once returned my Axe Fx 2 for a checkup it was way beyond the warranty. They did check the unit, and returned it free of any charges. Not much companies out there with such a service beyond expectations and beyond any obligation.

 

[mehegama]

200+ mark up is appropriate? OK, I m not sure you read the room very well

 

[dji]

200+ mark up is appropriate? OK, I m not sure you read the room very well

You're just throwing around with numbers now - it's not 200. Like what's your point? You don't like the 3-year warranty - then don't buy one.

 

[mehegama]

Price shown in US is without taxes.
Price shown in EU includes taxes (VAT~+20%), includes import duties, transportation,
and a delicious german chocolates box.

In US warranty is 1 year non-transferable (don't know why)
In Europe, G66 provides 3 years of transferable(*) warranty.

(*) Example:
I was able to sell my old FM9 still with 2 years warranty left... so it helped selling it fast, keeping the value high. Then I purchased the new one .

OK let me do the maths again:
699*1.2 vat UK = 838
838+70 insurance = 908.8
There are no import duties in the EU and UK for electronic devices (check it yourself if you want)
shipping cost to the UK is 0
with the current exchange rate of 1.337 this costs 679.73 GBP which has a markup of 110 GBP or 146 USD.
In the EU with the same math and shipment to Germany with 19% vat and 0 duties and shipping you get a markup of 130 EUR or 154 USD.
If you think shoving the insurance down your throat whether you want it or not and these 150 markups for absolutely nothing is ok, I will have to disagree

 

[mehegama]

You're just throwing around with numbers now - it's not 200. Like what's your point? You don't like the 3-year warranty - then don't buy one.

ok it s 150. check the maths above. it s still not worth it in my opinion

 

[ZenRigs Man]

OK let me do the maths again:
699*1.2 vat UK = 838
838+70 insurance = 908.8
There are no import duties in the EU and UK for electronic devices (check it yourself if you want)
shipping cost to the UK is 0
with the current exchange rate of 1.337 this costs 679.73 GBP which has a markup of 110 GBP or 146 USD.
In the EU with the same math and shipment to Germany with 19% vat and 0 duties and shipping you get a markup of 130 EUR or 154 USD.
If you think shoving the insurance down your throat whether you want it or not and these 150 markups for absolutely nothing is ok, I will have to disagree

Your assumptions are incorrect and you're missing multiple costs. I understand that it's more than you think it should be, and I'm truly sorry for that. I also wish I could buy things at US rates without any other costs added - but that's just not reality.

The dead horse has been well and truly flogged on this one.

With respect to all, can we lock this up mods?

 

[mehegama]

Your maths is wrong and you're missing multiple costs. I understand that it's more than you think it should be, and I'm truly sorry for that. I also wish I could buy things at US rates without any other costs added - but that's just not reality.

The dead horse has been well and truly flogged on this one.

With respect to all, can we lock this up mods?

how is it wrong? you need to point what is wrong, saying it jus like that is not going to cut it.
The only thing i did not factor in was the cost of shipment from the US to G66 facilities, but it is a bulk shipment and I don't think it is more than a few bucks per unit, given that the shipping costs to Germany and UK is 0 and for example to Greece it is just 5 eur.
And why lock it? You want to supress fair discussions? Do you have a financial interest in this?
Edit- I just saw you are the G66 UK manager. i see why now

 

[ZenRigs Man]

(Please note I instantly changed my text from 'maths' to 'assumptions' before your response)

And no, for the record, I have zero financial interest in this. I am an employee of G66, but I am a long-time business owner and understand first hand the costs of running an organisation, and have explained the costs involved in doing so earlier in this thread. There's really not much more I can say on this.

Thank you
Sukh

 

[yek]

how is it wrong? you need to point what is wrong, saying it jus like that is not going to cut it.
The only thing i did not factor in was the cost of shipment from the US to G66 facilities, but it is a bulk shipment and I don't think it is more than a few bucks per unit, given that the shipping costs to Germany and UK is 0 and for example to Greece it is just 5 eur.
And why lock it? You want to supress fair discussions? Do you have a financial interest in this?
Edit- I just saw you are the G66 UK manager. i see why now

It is explained here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/am4-more-expensive-in-europe.217280/#post-2734661

No company is obliged to fully disclose their costs and pricing.

Think it's too expensive? Don't buy it.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

I think @ZenRigs Man has explained things very well in here by now.

No amount of arguing or disagreeing is going to change it.

Things are what they are. If you don't like it, move along?

To keep putting a company down and insulting them over and over is very distasteful.

 

[mehegama]

I think @ZenRigs Man has explained things very well in here by now.

No amount of arguing or disagreeing is going to change it.

Things are what they are. If you don't like it, move along?

To keep putting a company down and insulting them over and over is very distasteful.

where exactly did i insult anyone?
I just stated my personal opinion that these are markups are excessive and explainwd why. So unless someone gives an explanation why these prices are fair or where m i wrong, i ll have that opionion.
i think it s more distasteful saying “i insult over and over” when it is demonstrably not true

 

[BROCKSTAR]

where exactly did i insult anyone?
I just stated my personal opinion that these are markups are excessive and explainwd why. So unless someone gives an explanation why these prices are fair or where m i wrong, i ll have that opionion.
i think it s more distasteful saying “i insult over and over” when it is demonstrably not true

They did explain why? Did you not see the other posts in this thread by @ZenRigs Man ? But you keep going on.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/am4-more-expensive-in-europe.217280/post-2736246

 

[ruso]

Stick a fork in this thread.

 

[mehegama]

They did explain why? Did you not see the other posts in this thread by @ZenRigs Man ? But you keep going on.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/am4-more-expensive-in-europe.217280/post-2736246

that s simply not a good enough reply. Why do i need to care about business expenses of a middleman that should not even exist in my opinion. Duties for electronic devices are 0, the only real difference is the sales tax vs vat which is about 7.5% in the states and 20% in europe. Again these markups are not substantiated in my opinion.
Now I did not know i had to ask you if I want "to keep going on" as you said. I just did not find these replies satisfactory. That is the point of forums to discuss, not to shut down discussions because some people feel their financial interests are hurt.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Cries in Marshall amp purchase in the US.

 

[MrGuitarabuse]

And in Japan 1,100 USD
https://www.okada-web.com/fractal-audio-systems/am4

All markets has it own challenges and costs. But one thing is for sure. You cant play it until you buy it

 

[Joshua_L]

I know g66 seems to be a really great company but the price of an fm9 in France is 2199€, that means 2580$…. That’s the retail price of the us axeIII. the axe is 2899€ so 3402$… That’s 1000$ more…
That’s really a lot.

Don’t want to argue or anything bist saying that makes fractal products really really really expensive.