After 10 years, I'm done...

I am happy that I read this post. I also have a lot of (too much) gear and have been weighing setup options. I just unboxed my Matrix GT1000FX that I purchased from Great Britain two years ago (I've been busy as a rented mule at work for the past two years). I am going to use the advice from your experience - I will be using the Matrix through a Z Best 2X12 and through a Kustom 2X15 with 1965 D 130's. Your may have saved 10 years of my life. I will let you know. Thanks!
 
I still quite like the Axe-Fx into my Marshall 20/20, either into a cab or as set of FRFR Yamaha CBR12's,
You can never have too many toys, guitars yes, toys, nawwww ;)
 
Johnnyking said:
I am happy that I read this post. I also have a lot of (too much) gear and have been weighing setup options. I just unboxed my Matrix GT1000FX that I purchased from Great Britain two years ago (I've been busy as a rented mule at work for the past two years). I am going to use the advice from your experience - I will be using the Matrix through a Z Best 2X12 and through a Kustom 2X15 with 1965 D 130's. Your may have saved 10 years of my life. I will let you know. Thanks!
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I think you are on the right track for "cab in the room" but not sure about speaker selection. I went through a year-long process with literally 20+ speakers. I have a "cab switcher" which allows me to run amp into a load box that will let me switch between 6 different cabs. I have tried a lot of speakers and only really succeeded with the EVMs. Even a 2 x 12 w/ an evm and a second choice didn't cut it because that 2nd speaker always colored too much. I'm a big fan of the D120, had a twin w/ 2 D120s that SLEW! Had a Mesa Mark with a D120 that rocked. But, here I am trying to get "cab in the room" While still maintaining the FRFR sound as best I can. I could not find another speaker that would do this well.

Ian Minogue-Corps said:
I still quite like the Axe-Fx into my Marshall 20/20, either into a cab or as set of FRFR Yamaha CBR12's,
You can never have too many toys, guitars yes, toys, nawwww ;)
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The one thing I know for certain? There is no "right way". I still believe that you absolutely cannot beat the aAxe fully FRFR into FOH or into a recording board. I don't do much live work anymore. But, in my studio, I have the axe running direct, via AES into one of my Lynx Aurora 16s then into Pro Tools HD. The sound in the mix is perfect and I can manipulate it in any conceivable way. I always record the dry signal too so I can reamp. However, that same sound coming thru studio monitors (even Bryston/JBL or RCF NX12) absolutely does not work for my creative needs. Without that cab in the room, my playing style changes. The sustain of the guitar is not there. The air is not moving. In short, I do not get what I need to play my best.

So, this is kind of a weird solution. I am both:

1.) reaffirming that for your FOH and recorded sounds, FRFR is the absolute best way to go, using IRS, reamping, all the great tools the axe gives us.

2.) confessing that, for me, that same FRFR signal does not do it at all for my ears in the room as a player. However, I could not find another amp/ speaker combo that was "flat enough". For me, I need that cab. Now, if your "Dream cab" is a 4 x 12 w/ greenbacks, awesome! But, I'm trying to get as close as I can to that FRFR sound while STILL getting kicked in the balls by a pair of EVs powered by the Matrix

So, I'm straddling the fence here. I do not believe that the cab is a replacement for your FRFR signal to board or FOH. It is just an additional tool for me to hear what I want to hear.

Interestingly, I am still experimenting with micing the EV cabs with a pair of U87s as room mics (not close mics) to see if I can capture some of that immediacy and power. But, honestly, so far, this has not really added anything but mud to my awesome FRFR signal at the board. Experiments continue...
 
Quick update on my experience with the Matrix FR212:

In my post above, I was not impressed with the FR212. But, I just plugged it in and whipped thru a few presets. Last night, I set up the matrix side by side with the 2 X 12 EVM cab, both powered by the gt1000. I had output 1 going to the EVs with no cab, output 2 going to the fr212 with a cab IR. This time, instead of using presets I'd already dialed in. I simply scrolled through a few stock presets on the axe. The results were a little different than above:

The fr212 still has a bit of that flattish FRFR signal but the 12s definitely give it some balls. I found that by EQing the cab block going to the fr212, cutting lows below 150 and high filter all the way down to about 3.5k, the fr212 sounded a lot like EVs. I think there is just a Brutal proximity effect with the tweeter/ horn in the fr212. If I was 30' away, it would probably be different but from 10' that high end has to be tamed. I'm going to spend more time with the fr212. At first, I was ready to just return it. But, it might be possible that, with a fixed EQ on that cab, I might be able to use all my IRs, something I cannot do with the EVs w/o EQing most IRS. Generally, every IR is too bassy unedited. But, if what you are after is cab in the room with basically zero tweaking, the EVs are doing this in spades on virtually every amp w/o an IR
 
To the OP: I'm on a similar amplification journey that you are and I sincerely appreciate this thread and all the info you've shared here. It's been very insightful, so please continue.
 
wildolympic said:
Krcassid I am just curious about what type of music you play?
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Good question! I don't really know the answer. I was playing R&R in the 60s, Punk/ New Wave in the 70s in LA. I spent a number of years as a worship leader in the church. I'm retired from the music biz. These days, I mentor guys in the church but, on my own I am doing mostly instrumental guitar that is maybe best described as a cross between Gilmore and Townsend (not that I am anywhere near as good as either), very R&R but with a lot of melodic content. Mostly Guitar/ bass/ drums. My influences range from Betts/ Santana/ Beck to Andy Timmons. I'm just a studio player these days. Don't do much live. I'm 61 and blessed to have a nice studio and I basically spend a lot of time there with my friends doing what I love. So, my situation is different than a lot of you guys. I'm focused largely on studio recording, don't need to worry about IEMs, can play pretty much as loud as I want. Hence, my gear and the way I use it is different than it was in my years on stage, when I largely used my trusty 65 Fender Pro Reverb and a 69 Les Paul (bought both new). I still have both.

I saw Hendrix at age 10 (backing the Monkeys). Life was never the same again!
 
One thing I will say, running the FRFR monitors with a side-wash from a real 4X12 cabinet is an immersive experience. I highly recommend it.
 
yek said:
+1
It's the best. But too much to carry.
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Too much to carry has been the dilemma for me as I get older. But since I play live, I refuse to sacrifice tone, which is easy to do. So right now I'm still using a new model Mesa 2:Fifty to a 4 x 12 over sized Mesa cab loaded with Celestion Creamback 65s. It sounds awesome. I'm in the process of switching to two 2 x 12 cabs, for smaller gigs, when the 4 x 12 is not needed. I've read tons of info on the Matrix GT1000FX amp, but have not had a chance to try one yet. I just can't get over the whole solid state thing, since I've been a tuber for too many years to count. But I'd still like to test one to see what all the hype is about. Unfortunately it is not possible unless I buy one.
 
Honestly, I think a 1 X 12 w/ an EV and a Matrix is all you need. Send the other output FRFR to board or FOH and you are done. 2 X 12s and 4 x 12s are great but not necessary. One of the best results I got was EVM-12L in a 1 X 12 Thiele cab. There are lots of these cabs around from Mesa. I think that particular cab was built around an EV in the 80s by Mesa.

A 40# 1 X 12, a 9# power amp... done.

Tommy Tempest said:
Too much to carry has been the dilemma for me as I get older. But since I play live, I refuse to sacrifice tone, which is easy to do. So right now I'm still using a new model Mesa 2:Fifty to a 4 x 12 over sized Mesa cab loaded with Celestion Creamback 65s. It sounds awesome. I'm in the process of switching to two 2 x 12 cabs, for smaller gigs, when the 4 x 12 is not needed. I've read tons of info on the Matrix GT1000FX amp, but have not had a chance to try one yet. I just can't get over the whole solid state thing, since I've been a tuber for too many years to count. But I'd still like to test one to see what all the hype is about. Unfortunately it is not possible unless I buy one.
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You definitely should try the Matrix. I have used 2:90, 2:50 and 20/20. The Matrix kills them all (power amp sims on). Talk to Andy at Matrix. I bet he'll let you return it if you don't like it. There are also quite a few used for sale. You can buy/ sell with limited risk. Worth $100 to find out what the hype is about? Biggest problem I found with tube power was power tubes not matching model. IE: 2:90 works great for a Fender Bassman (they are both 6L6). Totally sucked for an AC30 (EL84 power tubes). Think of it this way: When you run a tube amp you are choosing a power amp model (2:90 = 6L6). Do you really want to run a Marshall or a Vox thru 6L6 tubes? I got this to work with radical EQ but kinda defeats the purpose, right?
 
i am really reassessing my comments above on the Matrix fr212. Out of the box, I think my comments above are true. But, after spending a couple weeks, and a lot of a/bing between it and one of the ev 2 x 12s, I'm starting to like it. However, for me, it took a lot of EQ to get there. Basically, I am rolling off everything below 240 and everything above 4.5k. Kinda defeats the purpose of FRFR? But, who cares about purpose? It sounds good! And, I can use IRs!

What is still unclear is if I can find an EQ setting that will work for a variety of IRs. The cab is very flat but it has HUGE low end and is very bright. Hence, the cuts in the cab EQ.

More to follow...
 
krcassid said:
i am really reassessing my comments above on the Matrix fr212. Out of the box, I think my comments above are true. But, after spending a couple weeks, and a lot of a/bing between it and one of the ev 2 x 12s, I'm starting to like it. However, for me, it took a lot of EQ to get there. Basically, I am rolling off everything below 240 and everything above 4.5k. Kinda defeats the purpose of FRFR? But, who cares about purpose? It sounds good! And, I can use IRs!
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I'm glad it's starting to work out for you. But man, cutting above 4.5K and below 240 is really aggressive. I mean really, really aggressive. Either the speaker has no mids to begin with, or you're turning your guitar into a midrange brass instrument. :)
 
Those values are not thát far away from what I used years ago when playing live.
I used to block highs at 5kHz and lows at 200Hz and it sounded fine. I wasn't using CLRs back then.
That's for dirty sounds. That much high cut won't work for glassy clean tones.
 
yek said:
Those values are not thát far away from what I used years ago when playing live.
I used to block highs at 5kHz and lows at 200Hz and it sounded fine. I wasn't using CLRs back then.
That's for dirty sounds. That much high cut won't work for glassy clean tones.
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I'll have to play around with that. I often have to high-cut at 6 or 7K, but I feel as if I'm dulling the sound if I drop below that.
 
I must add: only when playing real loud, and within a band setting!
 
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I was using rough numbers. It really depends on the guitar, the cab... Tonight this was on a Tele thru CA3 (bright guitar, bright amp). I think the biggest issue might be proximity. This is a big cab with a pretty big tweeter assembly. I've got it 10' away, aimed right at me, and the lows and highs are way too much. If I was 20-30' away? in a bigger room? Like most of the FRFR solutions, highs seem aggressive, mids dull. Keep in mind, I'm sending exactly the same signal thru 2 EVMs and it sounds great, no EQ. I was trying to relate the 2. The FR212 is "fuller", the EVs more like a traditional cab. I would not give up the EVs for the FR212. But, like I was doing early on (mixing the RCF NX12 & EVs), it has as similar effect. The guitar cab has loads of mids. I think the highs and lows from the FR212 complement this. Would I schlep this mess around live? No way! But, in search of the holy grail...

The only reason I'm going down this road is to see if I can find a good overall EQ space for the FFR212 so I can use IRs "in the room". The EV cabs in the room are killer but, since I've got the FR212, I figured I'd explore.

Primary purpose of this post was to reverse my earlier position that the FR212 was not good. I think it can be good, maybe great. But, you should not have to work so hard to get there. Or, maybe this big cab really designed for a larger room. EVs are a slam dunk. Still recording with Axe direct FRFR and this sounds great as always.
 
I've got the 2U Matrix GT1000 powering the 2 x 12 Matrix cab and love it. It's a crisp bright sound next to a regular guitar cab, but it is a fully produced sound. Takes some getting used to, but I can't ignore all the speaker options I can use, it's far too limiting to just have one cabinet tone with the Axe.
 
Rex said:
I'll have to play around with that. I often have to high-cut at 6 or 7K, but I feel as if I'm dulling the sound if I drop below that.
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Ditto. Anything below ~8K for me starts sounding like cotton being stuffed in my ears.
 
Martyntb said:
I've got the 2U Matrix GT1000 powering the 2 x 12 Matrix cab and love it. It's a crisp bright sound next to a regular guitar cab, but it is a fully produced sound. Takes some getting used to, but I can't ignore all the speaker options I can use, it's far too limiting to just have one cabinet tone with the Axe.
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I need to spend some more time with the FR212. It isn't "bad" but in my environment, it's needing a lot of EQ for every IR I've tried. Might just be my environment. I don't have to EQ the EVMs at all.
 
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