About the Corncob...

D

DNW

Power User
Anyone here have much experience with the real thing? Is it really as crazy in the low freqs as the model in the Axe? I find for it to be of any real use to me, I have to cut a fair chunk of lows out in front of the amp with a filter block. Once I've done that it's a sweet sound, but without it, it's a huge unusably flubby sound for me.

But then, listening to say Guthrie's Erotic Cakes, supposedly it's Cornford stuff with no boosts, and there's no flubbiness to be heard anywhere.


Not that it really matters to me. I'm not really one for "authenticity" in amp modelling, and I can get some very sweet tones out of the Corncob with some filtering. It just seems a bit odd to me that the amp model has such a crazy amount of low end. :?
 
I own a Cornford mk50. Not exactly the same but very similar. Apparently RK loved the mk50 but wanted a 100 watt el34 version for a slightly more aggressive sound......
I have the matching cab (4x12 v30s).Loads of bottom end with the master volume run high.
At more realistic real-time volumes (about 3 on the master volume which is VERY loud) that bottom end is far less boomy.
Look at it like this, modern sounds work well with lower mv and higher gain.
More traditional sounds work well with higher mv and lower gain.
The axefx model sounds very close indeed to the real thing.
I still own a fair number of valve amps. The Cornford is my favourite followed by the Bogner Shiva.
They have both been gathering dust for about a year now.
 
sheguitarplayer said:
I own a Cornford mk50. Not exactly the same but very similar. Apparently RK loved the mk50 but wanted a 100 watt el34 version for a slightly more aggressive sound......
I have the matching cab (4x12 v30s).Loads of bottom end with the master volume run high.
At more realistic real-time volumes (about 3 on the master volume which is VERY loud) that bottom end is far less boomy.
Look at it like this, modern sounds work well with lower mv and higher gain.
More traditional sounds work well with higher mv and lower gain.
The axefx model sounds very close indeed to the real thing.
I still own a fair number of valve amps. The Cornford is my favourite followed by the Bogner Shiva.
They have both been gathering dust for about a year now.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. I guess I do tend to run the master fairly high in almost anything I do with the Axe, and the Corncob falls into that category. Maybe I'll back off the master a bit and see if the low end settles down a bit. Although, it seems to be pre-gain low end I'm finding to be huge, not so much the overall bassiness of the sound, so I'm not sure how much of that would actually be coming from the poweramp. I guess I'll test it out when I get home from work tonight. :)
 
The model was reworked slightly for 7.18 so if you're not running that version I recommend updating.
 
I never heard of the Corncob amp? Who is using these in the real world, does anyone know? Are these for high gain metal types?
 
Also, Cliff had mentioned that the Depth and Presence acted like bass and treble controls in the power amp stage -- if you have the Depth turned up you might try reducing that, since the power amp section will have more impact as the master volume is increased.

Cliff, please feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood anything you've stated previously.
 
FractalAudio said:
The model was reworked slightly for 7.18 so if you're not running that version I recommend updating.
Click to expand...

Well, that would be another thing then, coz I'm not yet on 7.18.

Hopefully this little bit of knowledge will push me to stop being lazy and actually update. :oops:

Thanks Cliff :cool:
 
steverosburg said:
Also, Cliff had mentioned that the Depth and Presence acted like bass and treble controls in the power amp stage -- if you have the Depth turned up you might try reducing that, since the power amp section will have more impact as the master volume is increased.

Cliff, please feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood anything you've stated previously.
Click to expand...

I believe I've got the presense fairly cranked, but I don't think I've touched the depth. Didn't get around to tweaking last night... too busy being lazy with the housemates, sitting around watching Jam. :roll: Will play with the poweramp controls when I get a chance though, see how much of the flubbiness is coming from the poweramp. Thanks. :)
 
sheguitarplayer said:
I own a Cornford mk50. Not exactly the same but very similar. Apparently RK loved the mk50 but wanted a 100 watt el34 version for a slightly more aggressive sound......
I have the matching cab (4x12 v30s).Loads of bottom end with the master volume run high.
At more realistic real-time volumes (about 3 on the master volume which is VERY loud) that bottom end is far less boomy.
Look at it like this, modern sounds work well with lower mv and higher gain.
More traditional sounds work well with higher mv and lower gain.
The axefx model sounds very close indeed to the real thing.
I still own a fair number of valve amps. The Cornford is my favourite followed by the Bogner Shiva.
They have both been gathering dust for about a year now.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the great post! I dialed in a couple of new Cornford patches based on what you said... one kind of hi-gain patch with the master below 5 and one more traditional with the gain low and the master high. Two very different tones, but both very nice in their own way. Probably never would have dug in and found these sounds if I hadn't read your post.
 
DNW said:
Anyone here have much experience with the real thing? Is it really as crazy in the low freqs as the model in the Axe? I find for it to be of any real use to me, I have to cut a fair chunk of lows out in front of the amp with a filter block. Once I've done that it's a sweet sound, but without it, it's a huge unusably flubby sound for me.

But then, listening to say Guthrie's Erotic Cakes, supposedly it's Cornford stuff with no boosts, and there's no flubbiness to be heard anywhere.


Not that it really matters to me. I'm not really one for "authenticity" in amp modelling, and I can get some very sweet tones out of the Corncob with some filtering. It just seems a bit odd to me that the amp model has such a crazy amount of low end. :?
Click to expand...

Guthrie could be hitting the amp with a lot of treble. His guitar is fairly bright I believe. It does have a LOT of low end. It is kind of nice to have a bassy amp in there with all the bright amps in the list. It is fairly simple to dial back the bass with the low cut parameter.
 
I know a bit about the Cornford amps. I own several different models including the MK 50 and The RK 100. They are great sounding amps. I've personally never found them to flubby in the low end. If anything I've found that they have a very strong high mid emphasis that needs to be adjusted to taste. I've often set the treble to 1 or 2 and the presence to 3 while cranking the mids and bass quite a bit more.

My guitars aren't particularly hi output nor are they particularly bright. I find it necessary to do fairly similar settings with the Fractal when using the Corford sim. I've never had a real low end issue. I've never had to use a filter. The bass frequency knob seemed to suffice.

Are the users who are experiencing this low end issue running through conventional guitar cabs? Anyone experiencing this running direct?

I need to update to the latest firmware so I can test all of the new parameters I've been hearing so much about. They sound very promising.

Many people have also mentioned the low end increase across the board. I will be curious to see if that happens in my patches. I've never had much of an issue with too much bass in the Axe either. I wonder if it is inherent in user parameters or actual unit tolerances. Curious...

DZ
 
What are you running your Axe-FX through? QSCs have a lot of bottom, especially if sitting horizontally on the stage....even with the 100hz roll-off engaged.
 
MKeditor said:
What are you running your Axe-FX through? QSCs have a lot of bottom, especially if sitting horizontally on the stage....even with the 100hz roll-off engaged.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the power amps or the FRFR units? I have a QSC GX5 and the low end before 7.18 was less than ok... now it's over powering, but I love that! All I have to do it kick the low down from 5 to 3.5 and it's freaking awe-inspiring!!!!! Maybe it's the bass player in me wanted to break out again! :D
 
dweezil zappa said:
I know a bit about the Cornford amps. I own several different models including the MK 50 and The RK 100. They are great sounding amps. I've personally never found them to flubby in the low end. If anything I've found that they have a very strong high mid emphasis that needs to be adjusted to taste. I've often set the treble to 1 or 2 and the presence to 3 while cranking the mids and bass quite a bit more.

My guitars aren't particularly hi output nor are they particularly bright. I find it necessary to do fairly similar settings with the Fractal when using the Corford sim. I've never had a real low end issue. I've never had to use a filter. The bass frequency knob seemed to suffice.

Are the users who are experiencing this low end issue running through conventional guitar cabs? Anyone experiencing this running direct?

I need to update to the latest firmware so I can test all of the new parameters I've been hearing so much about. They sound very promising.

Many people have also mentioned the low end increase across the board. I will be curious to see if that happens in my patches. I've never had much of an issue with too much bass in the Axe either. I wonder if it is inherent in user parameters or actual unit tolerances. Curious...

DZ
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, I don't have any low-end issues. The Cornford RK model does seem bassier and flubbier compared to the other axe-fx models. I've never played the actual amp so I have no means of comparison. It maybe I just need to turn down the Master Volume.

Interesting enough I was letting a guitar player try out my Ultra at a studio a couple of month ago and all my patches which sounded fine thru my home studio and several PAs, sounded very muddy on this guys setup. I think the room (or the location we were at) was sucking up a bunch of the upper mids.
 
dweezil zappa said:
Many people have also mentioned the low end increase across the board. I will be curious to see if that happens in my patches. I've never had much of an issue with too much bass in the Axe either. I wonder if it is inherent in user parameters or actual unit tolerances. Curious...

DZ
Click to expand...
This is probably due to the newly added Depth parameter, which in 'passive' mode seems to add more bass than in 'active', which was the pre7.18 way it worked.
 
I'm just running through monitors in a recording set up, same way I've always run my Axe. Only ever really had flubby low end issues like this in places where it's sorta to be expected, like say a Recto on ridiculous settings.

Like I've said, it's not so much the overall bassiness of the sound that I'm wondering, it's more the pre-gain bass I think. For example in a Mesa Mark, if you crank the low end knob you'll end up with a big loose flubby tone. I'm getting the same kind of thing with the Corncob, but of course the Corncob's tonestack is by default after the gain stages. Of course the solution is to change it to pre, or add a filter block or whatever to shape the pregain sound, but I was just wondering if this is how the real amp is.

I've played a bit with it since and part of it was me having the master set fairly high. Bringing that down and adding some preamp gain back in helps a bit, but it is still quite loose sounding to me, plus there's a certain sweet midrange thing that isn't there with the master set lower. :(

All that said, I haven't updated my Axe's firmware yet; I dunno how much of a change was made to the amp in this release, but I'll find out one of these days. :oops:

For now, the filter block before the amp helps me get the sounds I want, so this was more just a curiosity thing really. Or maybe I'll try backing off on a few things and then a PEQ after the amp to try get it closer to what I want... maybe some cab changes... Oh the possibilities! :lol:
 
Not sure if this thread is very active, but I only just recently starting experimenting with the Corncob (trying to find a more responsive/dynamic Plexi sound for lead), and I'm very impressed with this amp-sim!

For what it's worth, though, it's one of the few times where I've made specific use of the EQ to "sweeten" the tone: using a GraphicEQ with some high-boost/bass-cut. I know Cliff suggests this quite often, and it really helped. I also dialed back the gain stage dramatically and played with a StudioComp for mild compression/thickening for an overdriven 70's rock sound.

Once I did that I just couldn't stop playing playing the damn thing! Such a lovely, thick tone for lead work, and one of the most responsive Axe-amps for guitar-volume knob response.

BTW, that's playing it through a '56 Strat RI w/Kinman pickups.

Cheers,

ACV
 
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