9.0 Reverb Instability - Bug?

[sampleaccurate]

This may or may not be a "bug". I don't know if 8.09 did the same and it can certainly be avoided if you're aware of it.

With firmware 9.0, certain settings will cause the reverb to become unstable and go into a feedback condition. Setting the Input Diffusion and Diffusion Time both to 100% can bring this about. I'm not certain what other parameters are involved.

Stephen Cole

 

[iaresee]

Sounds like a feature to me! Woot! :mrgreen:

 

[FractalAudio]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

 

[mortega76]

This may or may not be a "bug". I don't know if 8.09 did the same and it can certainly be avoided if you're aware of it.

With firmware 9.0, certain settings will cause the reverb to become unstable and go into a feedback condition. Setting the Input Diffusion and Diffusion Time both to 100% can bring this about. I'm not certain what other parameters are involved.

Stephen Cole

Doesn't the same thing happen when you do something similar with the delay? That's when you go all Rage Against the Machine on the crowd and start kicking out crazy effects!

 

[ne1roc]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

:lol:

 

[aftec]

Someone will come up with Cliff employing some gyroscopes to have the real deal hit and boing for true authenticity sooner or later

 

[gittarzann]

Doesn't the same thing happen when you do something similar with the delay?

Are you talking about the run away delay "chop saw" effect.

I didn't think you could do that with the axe.

Can you ????

 

[GuitarDojo]

Doesn't the same thing happen when you do something similar with the delay?

Are you talking about the run away delay "chop saw" effect.

I didn't think you could do that with the axe.

Can you ????

the Yngwie "Steeler" Hot on your Heels effect....

@ 2:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vQwdheGiOA

 

[VegaBaby]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

You've obviously heard about the practices in England then :lol: . One reason I went privat

 

[sampleaccurate]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

I didn't say it was a bug, I'm just asking and letting other users know that if they set both the reverb parameters mentioned to 100% they might get a big blast of high frequency garbage coming out of their expensive tweeters.

I've never used a reverb that would go unstable at any setting, and I'm sure many here have had the same experience, so your words are good advice - don't lift your arm, or in this case, be careful how you set the reverb parameters for the sake of your studio monitors.

Stephen Cole

 

[VegaBaby]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

I didn't say it was a bug, I'm just asking and letting other users know that if they set both the reverb parameters mentioned to 100% they might get a big blast of high frequency garbage coming out of their expensive tweeters.

I've never used a reverb that would go unstable at any setting, and I'm sure many here have had the same experience, so your words are good advice - don't lift your arm, or in this case, be careful how you set the reverb parameters for the sake of your studio monitors.

Stephen Cole

+1

I love when gear does quirky things, but it's also a good thing to be aware of possible malfunctions which may lead to destroyed ears or other equipment

 

[sampleaccurate]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

I didn't say it was a bug, I'm just asking and letting other users know that if they set both the reverb parameters mentioned to 100% they might get a big blast of high frequency garbage coming out of their expensive tweeters.

I've never used a reverb that would go unstable at any setting, and I'm sure many here have had the same experience, so your words are good advice - don't lift your arm, or in this case, be careful how you set the reverb parameters for the sake of your studio monitors.

Stephen Cole

+1

I love when gear does quirky things, but it's also a good thing to be aware of possible malfunctions which may lead to destroyed ears or other equipment

I think my initial post was respectful, in the proper category, and addressed a relevant issue. Frankly I'm surprised by the flippant response by Fractal. If they don't want feedback about potential bugs they should eliminate the "bugs" section of the forum.

Stephen Cole

 

[Scott Peterson]

I think my initial post was respectful, in the proper category, and addressed a relevant issue. Frankly I'm surprised by the flippant response by Fractal. If they don't want feedback about potential bugs they should eliminate the "bugs" section of the forum.

Stephen Cole

Stephen, you are so damn serious all the time. Loosen up, have some fun. He just gave you the bizness is all. It's not flippant. It's humor.

 

[gittarzann]

Doesn't the same thing happen when you do something similar with the delay?

Are you talking about the run away delay "chop saw" effect.

I didn't think you could do that with the axe.

Can you ????

the Yngwie "Steeler" Hot on your Heels effect....

@ 2:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vQwdheGiOA

Thanks for the reference...I could NOT remember what song that was.

It is a pretty amazing effect IMO.

Yup that's the one...around 3:30 if anyone wants to listen.

You can't do that with the axe...I am pretty sure.

 

[sampleaccurate]

I think my initial post was respectful, in the proper category, and addressed a relevant issue. Frankly I'm surprised by the flippant response by Fractal. If they don't want feedback about potential bugs they should eliminate the "bugs" section of the forum.

Stephen Cole

Stephen, you are so damn serious all the time. Loosen up, have some fun. He just gave you the bizness is all. It's not flippant. It's humor.

You're probably right. My guess is that Cliff is working on a fix right now. I would have taken it as humor if he'd added something like "I'll look into it" after the humor.

I did get some nasty high frequency oscillation/noise at a loud volume (and I had it cranked at the time), so just be careful when you have it loud and you're adjusting the reverb. The tweeter was being requested to handle considerably more power than it normally handles and it wasn't pretty.

All in all Scott I think Cliff is a genius. He's designed, fabricated, and brought to market the best device of its kind in the world, hands down, something that huge corporations with extensive resources have not been able to do either in hardware or software. I know I run a lot of tests and make comments on this and that, some of them critical, the vast majority praise for a job well done. I also probably should have waited until the "party" was over to bring it up. The only reason I didn't wait was so others wouldn't make the same mistake I did. Right now everybody is soaking up the improvements and new features, myself included, and I'm just as impressed as everyone else with the new firmware and I'm having a blast. I stayed up so late last night I had to call in to work today and make up an excuse to use a vacation day.

I want to mention the gap issue. I documented the actual gap times. If I were Fractal and I were marketing the AXE I would measure the other guys gap times, publish the figures and proudly proclaim my device had only a 20ms gap between patch changes, PLUS, I have reverb and delay spillover to smooth the transition. That's a great number and a great feature. I'd also advertise less than 1.3 ms delay (or whatever it actually is - it's close to that) from input to output, and again publish the other guy’s propagation times. I think all my tests have shown the AXE to be a superior device, and have offered others actual proof in the form of test data. I think I take this seriously because I have a lot at stake and I'm working at a furious pace on a large project, and the AXE will be one of the most important components of the system I'm constructing.

Sorry for taking Cliff's comment the wrong way. I think it's a minor bug, I'd prefer using the new reverb than going back to the old reverb, so overall it's a big improvement, and I'm quite happy.

OK, back to playing with my AXE-FX Ultra which I'm enjoying every minute of. NO ARM LIFTING FOLKS!

Stephen Cole

 

[Shaloha]

My experience on this board is less than many others, but I have found that although you may get "razzed" by others, and occasionally by Fractal, when you're on to something, and you don't let go, it usually gets fixed or otherwise revised or implemented...there was a tuner variance calibration issue a while back, and I believe it was mainly Joe Gold (along with a one or two others) who wouldn't let go...and despite initial statements that it was just the way it was...it got fixed (or changed if you will, for the better). There have been a number of members who have had various issues, stick with it despite the criticism, and have gotten results...GM Arts and Radley come to mind. Mostly truth is truth, and these types of comments can ultimately result in a better product...of course there is always the un-constructive stuff :roll: It's obviously Cliff's call...but I've seen the product improved greatly due to respectful, constructive customer feedback...

 

[sampleaccurate]

My experience on this board is less than many others, but I have found that although you may get "razzed" by others, and occasionally by Fractal, when you're on to something, and you don't let go, it usually gets fixed or otherwise revised or implemented...there was a tuner variance calibration issue a while back, and I believe it was mainly Joe Gold (along with a one or two others) who wouldn't let go...and despite initial statements that it was just the way it was...it got fixed (or changed if you will, for the better). There have been a number of members who have had various issues, stick with it despite the criticism, and have gotten results...GM Arts and Radley come to mind. Mostly truth is truth, and these types of comments can ultimately result in a better product...of course there is always the un-constructive stuff :roll: It's obviously Cliff's call...but I've seen the product improved greatly due to respectful, constructive customer feedback...

That's all I think I gave anybody - respectful, constructive feedback concerning the unusual behavior of the reverb module.

Frankly I don't care if he fixes this one. I know what not to do and the reverb sounds better - he made vast improvements, and read my mind concerning the predelay parameters that were added. And like you said, it's Cliff's decision. If he wants the 15 day trial users to experience the thrill of high frequency noise and oscillation, that's most certainly his prerogative.

I expect an amp model to go unstable. It was made clear that the controls allow you to go beyond what a real amp is capable of and in doing so it may self oscillate or become unstable.

I expect delays with a feedback gain greater than 1 to run away and create an overload condition. That's normal behavior for delays.

But out of all the reverb units I've ever used in my entire life, both hardware and software, I've never had a reverb program become unstable or go into oscillation until now. That's why I commented. If that's going to remain the way it is that's perfectly fine with me. I'd buy my AXEs again, and I'm certainly not going back to 8.09.

Stephen Cole

 

[Smilzo]

I did get some nasty high frequency oscillation/noise at a loud volume (and I had it cranked at the time), so just be careful when you have it loud and you're adjusting the reverb.

A good rule is not to tweak (in a testing sense) when poweramp is crancked. I always turn down level, tweak, then back up the level. I've learned it with tube amps.

 

[javajunkie]

My experience on this board is less than many others, but I have found that although you may get "razzed" by others, and occasionally by Fractal, when you're on to something, and you don't let go, it usually gets fixed or otherwise revised or implemented...there was a tuner variance calibration issue a while back, and I believe it was mainly Joe Gold (along with a one or two others) who wouldn't let go...and despite initial statements that it was just the way it was...it got fixed (or changed if you will, for the better). There have been a number of members who have had various issues, stick with it despite the criticism, and have gotten results...GM Arts and Radley come to mind. Mostly truth is truth, and these types of comments can ultimately result in a better product...of course there is always the un-constructive stuff :roll: It's obviously Cliff's call...but I've seen the product improved greatly due to respectful, constructive customer feedback...

That's all I think I gave anybody - respectful, constructive feedback concerning the unusual behavior of the reverb module.

Frankly I don't care if he fixes this one. I know what not to do and the reverb sounds better - he made vast improvements, and read my mind concerning the predelay parameters that were added. And like you said, it's Cliff's decision. If he wants the 15 day trial users to experience the thrill of high frequency noise and oscillation, that's most certainly his prerogative.

I expect an amp model to go unstable. It was made clear that the controls allow you to go beyond what a real amp is capable of and in doing so it may self oscillate or become unstable.

I expect delays with a feedback gain greater than 1 to run away and create an overload condition. That's normal behavior for delays.

But out of all the reverb units I've ever used in my entire life, both hardware and software, I've never had a reverb program become unstable or go into oscillation until now. That's why I commented. If that's going to remain the way it is that's perfectly fine with me. I'd buy my AXEs again, and I'm certainly not going back to 8.09.

Stephen Cole

You can easily send the quad chorus into self-oscillation as well, but it allows for some creative possibilities:
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/quadweirdness.mp3

That being said, it is a very help tidbit to know to keep from having a panic attack :lol:

 

[craiguitar]

Patient: Doctor, when I lift my arm like this it hurts.

Doctor: So don't lift your arm like that.

You've obviously heard about the practices in England then :lol: . One reason I went privat

:lol: I laughed at that, then quickly remembered that my wife works for the NHS (Gulps!)