5150 Presence Knob

Do You Want the 5150 Presence Control to be Authentic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 36.6%

  • No

    Votes: 277 63.4%
  • Total voters
    437
TSJMajesty said:
An accurate-to-the real amp seems to be in keeping with Fractal's philosophy, but perhaps you also add an 'ideal' version of that parameter, that is somehow chosen by the user, as to which one is used when dialing it in?
Click to expand...
I've seen a few times where Cliff has said that he's done this type of thing because the original circuit was not optimal for the amp. These type of tweaks are a positive IMO. I would never prefer far less control just because it's more accurate to the original.
 
There's good precedent for idealized controls (IIRC the Mark EQ is an example) to increase ability to subtly change the value. IMO, stick with that to make the whole tool (presence control) useful.
 
Both arguments have a point… if you are familiar with the real amp, it makes sense that you would expect the model to match its behaviour. It’s more authentic and might help with matching settings.

But I vote no as someone who has not played through the real amp and would prefer the controls to be consistent across models. Otherwise you just have to “know” that the same knob behaves differently in one or two models.

Of course you can just use your ears and set it to where it sounds good, but if all the movement is in a very small range that might make it hard to use. (I remember how annoying the volume control was on a fender HRD!) That’s the only practical reason I’d prefer a sensible pot.
 
Authentic because I always assumed the Fractal models are the real amps as is. When I come to my Axe FX, I am assuming it behaves like my real amps do, settings and all.

I would say my second choice is a switch that the user can turn on to go to the idealized version if they want.

Please stay true to the real amps.
 
I voted for Ideal Presence Control, but I would be happy with and use either one. I'm just grateful that you've already given me so much. thank you We wish FAS happiness and prosperity.
 
FractalAudio said:
The current 100W 5150 models (6160, 6160+, 5153, etc.) use an idealized Presence control. This is because the Presence control on the real amps is the wrong taper IMO. The amps use a 20A taper. As such the Presence knob doesn't do anything until you turn it up to around 3/4.

The 50W version of those amps, however, use a reverse-log taper, which is the correct taper IMO. My belief is they realized the taper was wrong and implemented the fix on the 50W version which was introduced later.

The models use a reverse-log taper like the 50W version of the amps. This results in a smooth increase in presence as you turn the knob up rather than the response being concentrated in the upper 1/4 of the knob.

So... do you want weird taper like in the 100W amps or the reverse-log taper like in the models and the 50W version of the amps.
Click to expand...
So where does 3PM on the real amp when the presence comes on correlate to on the Axe FX versions?
 
tysonlt said:
...would prefer the controls to be consistent across models
Click to expand...
This is probably the best argument for idealized when it comes to the EQ section. Those who haven't used a particular amp don't know the 'quirks' it has and can only draw from experience with other models when it comes to how a certain parameter works. If this were on a 'critical' parameter, such as Gain, it becomes a completely different situation.
 
FractalAudio said:
The current 100W 5150 models (6160, 6160+, 5153, etc.) use an idealized Presence control. This is because the Presence control on the real amps is the wrong taper IMO. The amps use a 20A taper. As such the Presence knob doesn't do anything until you turn it up to around 3/4.

The 50W version of those amps, however, use a reverse-log taper, which is the correct taper IMO. My belief is they realized the taper was wrong and implemented the fix on the 50W version which was introduced later.

The models use a reverse-log taper like the 50W version of the amps. This results in a smooth increase in presence as you turn the knob up rather than the response being concentrated in the upper 1/4 of the knob.

So... do you want weird taper like in the 100W amps or the reverse-log taper like in the models and the 50W version of the amps.
Click to expand...
Make the correction Capt Stubing. Full steam ahead!
 
Authentic. Anyone who has a real amp with a corresponding model uses their real world settings as a starting point. If those settings sound too far off, they think the model is garbage. Keeping all tapers authentic makes the analog to digital transition much smoother, more intuitive, and immediately familiar to those with experience with the real thing looking for a digital solution.

Plus, having to explain the non-authentic presence taper to people struggling with the model wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The amp is iconic even if the design isn't perfect. My vote goes to honoring the original design.
 
Both reasons are equally valid IMO. I’m in the ideal camp simply because I would find an ideal knob easier and less surprising to deal with, but the authentic argument is compelling too, for the same reasons but from a different perspective. Some care a lot about authenticity and others don’t, so it’s probably not a better/worse thing. Appreciate Cliff asking for opinions though!
 
York Audio said:
Authentic. Anyone who has a real amp with a corresponding model uses their real world settings as a starting point. If those settings sound too far off, they think the model is garbage. Keeping all tapers authentic makes the analog to digital transition much smoother, more intuitive, and immediately familiar to those with experience with the real thing looking for a digital solution.

Plus, having to explain the non-authentic presence taper to people struggling with the model wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The amp is iconic even if the design isn't perfect. My vote goes to honoring the original design.
Click to expand...

100%
The vote count also reflects how many people have actually been in the vicinity of real tube amps, not many... kids these days. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom