4 Cable Method (4CM) Heaven

mrstrat

mrstrat

Experienced
So I've been doing battle with my FRFR setup, trying various options, and feeling like the tone was "just ok".

Well, I had some time to play around today, and I connected my Axe II to my Two-Rock Custom Reverb and my Engl Gig Master using the four cable method, and OH MY GOD!!! The clouds parted, and there it was...the clean sound I've been looking for all my life...true love...really...just an amazing, amazing tone. Holy Schnikeys!! :D

So I'm running to the front of the Engl, and using it's effects send and return and using the Two Rock as the second amp (running into its effects return).

I used the stock 4CM preset just to get it working, and plan to do some more experimenting tomorrow. Next, I'm going to try putting an amp model in the chain to get a lead tone.

Has anyone had experience with this?? Would you suggest putting the amp block before or after the FX block??
 
Hi, yeah I got also the best results with 4CM and my Mesa Lonestar... I had some hum busting cables made as well, which work absolutely fantastic. I am using Axe II pedals in front of the preamp and only delay and reverb in the FX loop. Works great. Also love playing with EQ's in the chain with the real amp. Opens up a LOT of possibilities... I use the Axe with FRFR sometimes as well with my studio monitors (if I want a stereo setup or record) and it's great too. Thing is for me through FRFR it ALWAYS sounds like a mice'd and recorded amp. No matter at what volume. It does that perfect though, so no complaints but I could not divorce the Mesa yet and probably never will. The electricity running through some heated glass tubes and into a real cab has some sensuality to it that cannot replaced by any digital product. Most likely it's my mind playing tricks on me, but knowing that the tone is created for real and not virtually makes it sound more real to me. In an A/B test this would probably fail. But hey, there's people who can "hear" different cables...
 
mrstrat said:
So I've been doing battle with my FRFR setup, trying various options, and feeling like the tone was "just ok".

Well, I had some time to play around today, and I connected my Axe II to my Two-Rock Custom Reverb and my Engl Gig Master using the four cable method, and OH MY GOD!!! The clouds parted, and there it was...the clean sound I've been looking for all my life...true love...really...just an amazing, amazing tone. Holy Schnikeys!! :D

So I'm running to the front of the Engl, and using it's effects send and return and using the Two Rock as the second amp (running into its effects return).

I used the stock 4CM preset just to get it working, and plan to do some more experimenting tomorrow. Next, I'm going to try putting an amp model in the chain to get a lead tone.

Has anyone had experience with this?? Would you suggest putting the amp block before or after the FX block??
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Dito.... Started using it with my red plate and never looked back. I really don't care how close the sims get because nothing is better than the real thing. I use my axe for fx only
 
gsegal said:
Agree... You will see that the pre amp sims sound like they're under a blanket, compared to the amp preamp.
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I've done extensive comparisons of the preamp models to actual preamps and they measure and sound identical. You have something set up wrong. You should note that when you turn off the power amp modeling the Presence control turns into a shelving filter. So if you leave it fully CCW (default) then you'll get a 12 dB cut in your high frequencies which will sound like it's under a blanket.
 
FractalAudio said:
I've done extensive comparisons of the preamp models to actual preamps and they measure and sound identical. You have something set up wrong. You should note that when you turn off the power amp modeling the Presence control turns into a shelving filter. So if you leave it fully CCW (default) then you'll get a 12 dB cut in your high frequencies which will sound like it's under a blanket.
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Can someone help me understand this? (Newbie here!) What does he mean by preamp models? I know we have amp models, and we have Drive (pedal) models, but what are preamp models? What is CCW? I feel like I'm learning a new language! LOL :)

BTW, do you guys realize how cool it is to have the guy who created this amazing technology personally answering our posts?!?! Amazing...
 
mrstrat said:
Can someone help me understand this? (Newbie here!) What does he mean by preamp models? I know we have amp models, and we have Drive (pedal) models, but what are preamp models? What is CCW? I feel like I'm learning a new language! LOL :)

BTW, do you guys realize how cool it is to have the guy who created this amazing technology personally answering our posts?!?! Amazing...
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You can turn the power amb modeling off globally or an a preset basis (by turning the SAG off), leaving you with preamp models
 
FractalAudio said:
I've done extensive comparisons of the preamp models to actual preamps and they measure and sound identical. You have something set up wrong. You should note that when you turn off the power amp modeling the Presence control turns into a shelving filter. So if you leave it fully CCW (default) then you'll get a 12 dB cut in your high frequencies which will sound like it's under a blanket.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I've used the preamp models into the efx return on many boutique amp heads and found the "real" preamp and the Axe preamp sim to be practically identical sounding, I used this to drop jaws regularly when a nay-sayer gives me a speach about the "shrill digital sound of modelers"
 
Guitar1 said:
Does using this method require that each preset be edited with the fx loop block replacing all the amp and cab blocks as per the instruction manual? Or is there a global change that is quicker and simpler?
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Each preset that you want to use with 4CM needs to be setup/edited to include the fx loop block - as per the manual
 
Create a preset and save it as a template to a PC that way you can load it onto the Axe FX when you need a new 4CM preset in a new position and just tweak that.
 
Guitar1 - you don't have to remove the amp or cab blocks, just bypass them (making sure the signal passes through those blocks) when you add the fx loop block. This usually requires moving other blocks to make room - not always, but most of the time. Also, be careful to keep high gain amp blocks off when your outboard preamp (the one in your amp head, or preamp unit) is brought in via the fx loop. Unless, of course, you want the equivalent of about ten stacked preamps tubes. Also, cab blocks can be used or not for various sounds along with the fx loop, kind of like an EQ. To get really crazy, this way you can switch your amp head, and Axe amp models in and out, for a million sounds that include your fave amp head. A lot of work for all of the presets, but for a select few, not that big a deal. If only there was some way to do this on your computer...it's a joke, waiting patiently like everyone else...
 
I've been using the Ultra in 4cm with my orange rockerverb ever since I got the ultra late 2010. I've got it setup great with the Orange. However, the more I hear clips of the Axe II with a matrix power amp, the more I want to upgrade and sell my orange head. Setup would be cleaner, lighter and simpler. I highly doubt people would notice the difference. If anything they'd notice more amp tones. At this point I picked up a spare ultra from a friend so I can sell mine and give the II a try out. I think the trickiest part is going full FRFR. That's more tweaking and I think the transition for most guitarists needs to be from tube heads to axe with power amp then to FRFR. That all being said the 4 cable method works pretty well too. Just more lugging around and connections. 4cable has a backup system incorporated as well. Tube head goes down - you have the axe and vice versa.
 
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