Matrix Neolight NL212 traditional cab

BBN said:
For anyone using the NL12, can you comment on how these compare to other guitar cabs?
In other words, what are the benefits the NL12 offers (when compared to let's say a cab loaded with V30's?.....other than just the weight difference.
Not saying the weight difference isn't enough of a factor for some folks....just wondering what other differences there may be when compared to a traditional guitar cab.
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You can't ignore the elephant in the room --- weight.

besides the weight -- the cabs are FR and they seem to morph into whatever tone you want. A friend of mine has a Trainwreck Express (real one) with an old vox cab loaded with prerolla v30s greenbacks. I loaded up the wrecker and it sounded pretty convincing through the NL12..

Same Fender and dumble amps -- they sound pretty damn good.

I have never played a Freidman BE amp in person and I really do not know what speakers are used or recommended -- but I have to say that the Freidman is fast becoming my favorite lead and crunch tones using the NL12s.

I guess my point is the NL cabs sound really good through a variety of amps (at least the ones I have played) verses a more traditional cab that typically sounds great with one or two amp types and sounds like crap with everything else.
 
LVC said:
You can't ignore the elephant in the room --- weight.
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Not ignoring it......it's just not a factor for me.


Thanks for the additional info on your other experiences with the NL12, that was kind of what I was getting at.....does it have increased flexibility when compared to a cab with (let's say) V30's in it.
 
LVC said:
You can't ignore the elephant in the room --- weight.

besides the weight -- the cabs are FR and they seem to morph into whatever tone you want. A friend of mine has a Trainwreck Express (real one) with an old vox cab loaded with prerolla v30s greenbacks. I loaded up the wrecker and it sounded pretty convincing through the NL12..

Same Fender and dumble amps -- they sound pretty damn good.

I have never played a Freidman BE amp in person and I really do not know what speakers are used or recommended -- but I have to say that the Freidman is fast becoming my favorite lead and crunch tones using the NL12s.

I guess my point is the NL cabs sound really good through a variety of amps (at least the ones I have played) verses a more traditional cab that typically sounds great with one or two amp types and sounds like crap with everything else.
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I owned a Friedman and Splawn and both are represented well in the AxeFX. The same cabs that are great with a Marshall amp are great with a Friedman.

Can you explain a bit what it is with the NL cabs that allow it to be used with cabs on? I currently play thru a Xitone and have to use the cabs but also used to play thru Marshall 4x12s with great results (cabs off of course). I guess I am confused how a setup can successfully sound great with cabs on AND off. I use a Matrix GT1000FX as a poweramp. Thanks!
 
romanianreaper said:
Can you explain a bit what it is with the NL cabs that allow it to be used with cabs on?
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LVC said:
Honestly -- I have no clue why they sound good with cab sims on as well as off.

That is a question for the Matrix guys.
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The other thing I forgot to mention, once the speakers break-in on these cabs they really sweeten up.

Once I got a couple of presets dialed in for the cabs -- I found it very hard going back and using IRs and with monitors.

You get spoiled very quickly -- especially if you are used to playing tube amps and real guitar cabs.
 
LVC said:
Honestly -- I have no clue why they sound good with cab sims on as well as off.

That is a question for the Matrix guys.
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I'm sorry but I can't understand how people use them with sims ON.
They are guitar speakers and when you use the Cab sims, it becomes so dull and unnatural to my ears.
It's not a FRFR cab so It's impossible to have an usable sound.
Clean sounds are OK but with high gain, forget to use the cab sims...
If you want to use cab sims, buy a FRFR Matrix cab and not these.
They are pure guitar cabs for me.
Like a V30 but with extended highs and bass.
They works great for W/D/W rigs too...
At this time I'm playing a W/D/W rig with axe for effects only and it's really great.

NL12 or 212 are great with the axe fx but I still prefer traditionnal cabs (Mesa, Bogner, Two Rock) for my tube amps.
They have more "color" in the tone where the NL12 is more neutral sounding (better for a modeler).
Compare to my Mesa or Bogner 2x12 they have less punch but more open sounding so cleans are a little better with the Matrix cabs.
And yes, weight is really nothing.
With little time with them, I still prefer traditionnal cabs for my dry sound and these for effects or Axe FX (cab OFF).
 
Actually, IIRC these cabs are not full range but they are flat response. For those who claim they can't stand the "fizziness" of monitors, this might be a solution: a linear frequency response but a drastic bandpass filter.
Of course you're going to miss something from the cab simulation, but the result is certainly better than with a traditional guitar cab.
This having being said, nothing is for everyone :D
 
Tonic said:
I'm sorry but I can't understand how people use them with sims ON.
They are guitar speakers and when you use the Cab sims, it becomes so dull and unnatural to my ears.
It's not a FRFR cab so It's impossible to have an usable sound.
Clean sounds are OK but with high gain, forget to use the cab sims...
If you want to use cab sims, buy a FRFR Matrix cab and not these.
They are pure guitar cabs for me.
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You sound like you've never used an NL12. The only reason I say this is because what you say is the opposite of my experience of them.

"It's not a FRFR cab so It's impossible to have an usable sound." This particularly reads as statement followed by deduction - and it's plain wrong. I'd thought of using them without cab sims, but without any adjustment, they sound much better with the cab sims so I run them from my Output One unbalanced outs.

But you have to adjust everything whatever you're using. No FRFR monitor gives you exactly what you what straight out of the box. Read some of the discussions on people suffering harsh tones, dampening down the top and bottom ends etc when using FRFR monitors. As others have said, the NL12 does seem to round off some of this - and like LDV I have no idea why - it just does.

If you put an Axe high gain amp sim through a real Marshall 4x12, that's what it sounds like. The magic of the NL12 is that it also sounds like that (alarmingly so if you close your eyes when playing loudly), but won't give you a hernia.
 
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Hugomack said:
You sound like you've never used an NL12. The only reason I say this is because what you say is the opposite of my experience of them.

"It's not a FRFR cab so It's impossible to have an usable sound." This particularly reads as statement followed by deduction - and it's plain wrong. I'd thought of using them without cab sims, but without any adjustment, they sound much better with the cab sims so I run them from my Output One unbalanced outs.

But you have to adjust everything whatever you're using. No FRFR monitor gives you exactly what you what straight out of the box. Read some of the discussions on people suffering harsh tones, dampening down the top and bottom ends etc when using FRFR monitors. As others have said, the NL12 does seem to round off some of this - and like LDV I have no idea why - it just does.

If you put an Axe high gain amp sim through a real Marshall 4x12, that's what it sounds like. The magic of the NL12 is that it also sounds like that (alarmingly so if you close your eyes when playing loudly), but won't give you a hernia.
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I have Two NL12 and Two NL212 so I kwow them.
I have made a clip and two vids of NL212
Could you please make some recordings of yours with cab sims ON?
Do you play in a band or at home?
At volume gig?
Do you play alone or with other instruments?
It's a matter of taste for sure, but they are only guitar speakers with extended highs or bass.
Nothing from full range, so if you use some IR's with a dark sound, it will be too dark and colored for the NL12.
So it could works for some kind of sounds but without cab sims the axe fx breathes more and you can use the global EQ if your sound is too bright.
But please make a recording of your sound so it will be possible to compare with or without cab sims
 
Ok there is a comparaison on a Diezel VH4 channel 3

https://soundcloud.com/tonicstudio/cab-sims-comparaison

For me, without cab sims is really clearer, more punchy, richer, more balanced.
In comparaison with cab sims, compressed and unnatural sound .
If you are playing in a mix or a band contest with the second it will be impossible to ear your sound.
But no problem there are no rules in sound, just to say that it doesnt work for everyone with cam sims and i really prefer without.
 
Your recordings are exactly as you say - no doubt about it. I wouldn't play using the second set-up - which you say in NL12 with cab sims on.

But mine don't sound like that - live and at volume.

Sorry to question the basis of your opinion. But it's just not my experience, so the various statements I quoted from your post made it sound like you were making deductions from the points you'd made, not from use of these speakers. But you seem like you're enjoying using them.

Maybe a bit more tweaking might allow you to bring in the cab sims. They give added detail which i think is worth the effort. I think of it being like you hear the fabric of the speaker cones... But with backline, it's all about how you hear it and are inspired by what you hear - and so play better...
 
Hugomack said:
They give added detail which i think is worth the effort. I think of it being like you hear the fabric of the speaker cones... But with backline, it's all about how you hear it and are inspired by what you hear - and so play better...
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I dont think they add detail , you are missing some frequencies with cab sims ON because of IR "color"
For me pure sound of axe fx with a good power amp give you more tonal possibilities ;)
But please records some sounds from your cab sims ON.
 
Tonic said:
And the really good option is NL cabs sims off with a FRFR system in the same time.
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LDV does that - but don't think he bothers turning off the cab sims. I think he did some recordings.

You'll have to excuse me from your SoundCloud test (I haven't the time). It wouldn't help you in any case, as I'd need to send you my patches, cab settings etc.

Interestingly I built a 1" CD horn cab with passive cross-over that flattened off the profile and L-Pad, which I've used with my EVM cabs. The EVMs were very muddy when used with cab sims (hence me buying the NL12). But by turning up the L-Pad (and the high freqs), getting rid of the EVMs freq dip @11kHz (if I remember right), with the cab sims on it sounded fine.

But this is probably the way my live patches are set up. Who knows?
 
On friday I will do some clips (I will be home and the wife will be out).

I think they sound great with sims on and off -- depends what you are going after.

Initially before the speakers broke in -- I was finding myself adding a filter block to reduce the highs ... now I prefer them straight up - no filtering or EQ (especially with the overdriven tones). Like I said before, the cabs really sweeten up when the speakers break in.

I am using them now pretty much straight up with cab sims off -- however I really like the way the twin sounds through the NL12 with the cab sim on (more of a John Mayer type of clean without any advanced EQ/tweaking - just turning on the cab sim).

For my next gig -- I might have a preset or scene with the cab sim on to test how it sounds in the context of a live band performance.
 
Hugomack said:
If you put an Axe high gain amp sim through a real Marshall 4x12, that's what it sounds like. The magic of the NL12 is that it also sounds like that (alarmingly so if you close your eyes when playing loudly), but won't give you a hernia.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you are enjoying the tone and the lack of weight.

When we first started making these, they guys in the factory just glued a bunch of them up and went home for the day, leaving them to dry overnight. See, the glue is heavy when wet ... but gets lighter as it dries. When they came back next morning, the cabs were nowhere to be seen.

Then someone looked up. There they were, all floated up to the top of the factory, jostling each other gently for space in the roof beams. Took ages to get them down, had to use a long pole and a hook.

Of course now we know, we always make sure to put a brick on them as they dry overnight, stops them floating off. You are fine once they are loaded with drivers ... but if you take one apart, be sure to do it indoors, or at least tie some string to it so it doesn't go too far. :) ;)

But seriously, I'm glad you like it, we worked hard on those to get them right, lots of experiments with cab volume and porting, different woods, different drivers, they all play their part. What we got at the end was something we are very happy with. So far, everyone that tried it, loved it. Its not FRFR, but it does what it does, and if that puts a grin on your face, then we got it right.
 
Hugomack said:
You'll have to excuse me from your SoundCloud test (I haven't the time). It wouldn't help you in any case, as I'd need to send you my patches, cab settings etc.
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It takes 5 minutes to make a little recording with a SM57 like I did... ;)
I can understand that you are finding great sound for your needs with cab sims ON, no problem.
But don't forget that IR's have microphone, preamp, other guitar speakers coloration so you add all this to the NL12.
That's not only about tone but also with playing feeling.
I was just curious to ear your sounds with these sims ON.
 
LVC said:
On friday I will do some clips (I will be home and the wife will be out).

I think they sound great with sims on and off -- depends what you are going after.

Initially before the speakers broke in -- I was finding myself adding a filter block to reduce the highs ... now I prefer them straight up - no filtering or EQ (especially with the overdriven tones). Like I said before, the cabs really sweeten up when the speakers break in.

I am using them now pretty much straight up with cab sims off -- however I really like the way the twin sounds through the NL12 with the cab sim on (more of a John Mayer type of clean without any advanced EQ/tweaking - just turning on the cab sim).

For my next gig -- I might have a preset or scene with the cab sim on to test how it sounds in the context of a live band performance.
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Thanks for clips, if possible not an Iphone sound it's difficult to ear all frequencies.
I could agree with you about the twin with cab sims ON.
But I dont think you are an high gain player, I dont think you would use cab sims on a Friedman HBE with lots of gain.
On a clean or light crunch sound, it could be rounder and warmer but also less dynamic and less "chime" and air in the sound.
Plug a good tube amp in the NL12 it will never sound like sims ON.
I have compared my Two Rock Custom reverb V3 with axe rig and I can find a good sound with little tweak without cab (just use EQ if needed).
Don't forget I would be happy to find a great sound with cab sim ON because I'm only using NL cabs for my monitoring on stage to have a guitar cab feeling (or W/D/W with a tube amp)
FRFR for FOH.
 
RobinMatrix said:
I'm glad you are enjoying the tone and the lack of weight.

When we first started making these, they guys in the factory just glued a bunch of them up and went home for the day, leaving them to dry overnight. See, the glue is heavy when wet ... but gets lighter as it dries. When they came back next morning, the cabs were nowhere to be seen.

Then someone looked up. There they were, all floated up to the top of the factory, jostling each other gently for space in the roof beams. Took ages to get them down, had to use a long pole and a hook.

Of course now we know, we always make sure to put a brick on them as they dry overnight, stops them floating off. You are fine once they are loaded with drivers ... but if you take one apart, be sure to do it indoors, or at least tie some string to it so it doesn't go too far. :) ;)
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Ohhhh..... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

So uncle Robin, is this how the SoundCloud was born?

:frog: :frog: :frog: :frog: :frog: :frog:
 
Sorry dude ---

iPhone is the best I got

Laz

Tonic said:
Thanks for clips, if possible not an Iphone sound it's difficult to ear all frequencies.
I could agree with you about the twin with cab sims ON.
But I dont think you are an high gain player, I dont think you would use cab sims on a Friedman HBE with lots of gain.
On a clean or light crunch sound, it could be rounder and warmer but also less dynamic and less "chime" and air in the sound.
Plug a good tube amp in the NL12 it will never sound like sims ON.
I have compared my Two Rock Custom reverb V3 with axe rig and I can find a good sound with little tweak without cab (just use EQ if needed).
Don't forget I would be happy to find a great sound with cab sim ON because I'm only using NL cabs for my monitoring on stage to have a guitar cab feeling (or W/D/W with a tube amp)
FRFR for FOH.
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