Why the Obsession with FRFR Solutions?

If i had a PA, i would buy the same speakers as monitors.. And i did. Using HK Audio pa and monitors. Seems like we are changing it to Yamaha DSR speakers. So i may end up with DSR as my new speakers.
 
LVC said:
So what you are saying it is a better personal monitor.... but in the overall picture not really neccessary. Sort of a luxury item because you will still need a monitor for the rest of the band mix right?

Again I am still trying to find the logic because if you are going to go through a PA wouldn't make more sense to have your guitar go through the same monitors everyone else is going through so you can get a real sense of the mix and sound to the audience?

Really the more I think about it the less sense it makes to me -- again in a live setting.

Not slagging the solutions -- they sound great but when I look at them from this perspective they look like a bit of an overkill (again for live playing not home or studio use)

If you are not going through PA or FOH -- then that is another matter.
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Sometimes I am going through the PA. Sometimes the PA guy insists on amping my speaker. Sometimes my speak is my sole source of amplification. In all cases, my experience as a performer is aided by good sound.
 
Scott Peterson said:
Hearing myself well, enjoying it and being inspired by it makes me play better, allows me to enjoy performing and inspires those moments when you let go and live in the moment playing in a band with other musicians.... instead of fussing, worrying about or being preoccupied with substandard gear.

Personally speaking, I also play acoustic, electric and sometimes bass through my rig making FRFR/direct-to-FOH a very serious need rather than some extravagant indulgence. ;)

Life is too short to settle for mediocrity. I choose the tools I use to perform music based on how they perform, their reliability, consistency and overall performance. Whether or not that is 'expensive' is open to debate, I instead focus on the actual performance of the gear based on my needs and expectations to determine their value no matter the 'price' of the gear. If I had a $300 powered speaker that worked well for me, so be it. I tried many, none did the job in a satisfying manner for me.
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Scott not knocking the solutions -- I like (as you know) my current solution.

However -- at the end of the day not all of us are fortunate enough to have the cash to layout serious coin for all the toys. So my question is do we really need them all to use the AF2 effectively in a live setting?

I think too much focus is spent on high end solutions and very little (if any) on budget friendly solutions that a person can use to make music with the Axe for himself and an audience.

Just Say'n
 
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LVC said:
Scott not knocking the solutions -- I like (as you know) my current solution.

However -- at the end of the day not all of us are fortunate enough to have the cash to layout serious coin for all the toys. So my question is do we really need them all to use the AF2 effectively in a live setting?

I think too much focus is spent on high end solutions instead of everyday solutions that a person on a budget can feel good about using his Axe and making it sound good to the audience he plays for.

Just Say'n
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If all of your gigs involve a good PA and good monitors, then, of course you don't.
 
LVC said:
Scott not knocking the solutions -- I like (as you know) my current solution.

However -- at the end of the day not all of us are fortunate enough to have the cash to layout serious coin for all the toys. So my question is do we really need them all to use the AF2 effectively in a live setting?

I think too much focus is spent on high end solutions instead of everyday solutions that a person on a budget can feel good about using his Axe and making it sound good to the audience he plays for.

Just Say'n
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You usually buy what you can afford. I'm sure there aren't many 21yr olds with AXE-FX's either. People who can afford a $2000.00 Modeler, usually isn't going to spend $100.00 on a cheap set of speakers, some might of course I guess, but they are not hanging out here. Most of us make decent livings, so you get what you can afford and usually you want the best or near the best. This is my opinion anyway.
 
Let's face it. Most of what we do is for ourselves. 99.9% of the audience wouldn't be able to tell if I was using an Axe or a small pedal board. They don't notice how accurate the amp sounds are. They don't appreciate all of the layered effects that I'm using or the vast array of tones they are hearing over the course of a set. They are out on the dance floor having a good time, and they would be just as happy if I was playing a simple combo amp. I strive for the best sound I can get because I can tell the difference and it maximizes the enjoyment I get from my own music. Why spend all that money and go through all that work only to settle for hearing something less when I'm on stage?
 
LVC said:
Scott not knocking the solutions -- I like (as you know) my current solution.

However -- at the end of the day not all of us are fortunate enough to have the cash to layout serious coin for all the toys. So my question is do we really need them all to use the AF2 effectively in a live setting?

I think too much focus is spent on high end solutions instead of everyday solutions that a person on a budget can feel good about using his Axe and making it sound good to the audience he plays for.

Just Say'n
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That's fine, but what you feel is 'too much focus' is just your opinion. I didn't knock any solutions either; I just answered your question given my circumstances and needs. No guitar cab will sound good with acoustic, electric and bass. None.

An advantage of the Axe-FX II is that it can be used in a variety of different rig configurations. Be it an effects only, amp/cabs only, preamp or all-in-one solution with any number of other analog and digital gear. That does not mean one way is the 'only' or 'best' way to use the Axe-FX II. If you want to take advantage of the massive array and variety of tools that are within the Axe-FX II, it is my opinion that you should not settle for anything anywhere in your rig - the Axe-FX II is a very expensive (comparatively) fully professional level solution. But it is only one part of your overall rig. Your entire rig is only as good as your weakest part of that rig. Would you play a $10,000 guitar into a Gorilla amp and expect to get the most out of the guitar? To me, the Axe-FX is a solution to a given circumstance and need I use it for and to date it is the best solution I've ever found. I turned my own needs focus to other aspects of my rig and went through tube power amps/conventional cabs, then various (and many) powered speakers and power amp (solid state and tube types) into FRFR unpowered speakers. For me, the best solutions ended up being what I run currently and will run until a better solution presents itself. And when it does, I will not be shy about using that.

All this is subjective and all of this is individual to each musician, each musician's situation and needs. There is no one answer to what anyone needs/wants/prefers that will be a working and satisfactory solution for all. We don't all work within the same financial means nor artistic preferences.
 
It is just a dick swinging contest. And yes it can become quite expensive. But some need it to provide them their necessary self esteem. Compensation for dick length, playing abilities or to feel superiour? Dont know, dont care. And if your life is short this new stuff only shortens your life by filling the pockets of others. So maybe it is time to ask yourself what is really worth while?
 
LVC said:
So my question is do we really need them all to use the AF2 effectively in a live setting?

I think too much focus is spent on high end solutions and very little (if any) on budget friendly solutions that a person can use to make music with the Axe for himself and an audience.
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Why did you buy the AF2 then?
 
The axe can be used with any sound reproduction device.

It's up to the user to determine the quality of device he/she desires.

The "focus" on high end is inevitable as people search for the best solution available, then compromise for their current situation.

If you want to use a non-high end speaker, no problem. If you feel like you can play comfortably with your guitar direct and only in the PA system monitor fold back, no problem.

If your situation is comfortable and you don't understand why others want/need a dedicated speaker if whatever quality, no problem.

I know from other threads that the OP uses his speaker as the sole source for his sound, not going to a PA system. I'd suggest that one day with a PA system available, bypass his speaker and go direct to the PA with his guitar in the shared monitors. The answer to his question (and other factors) might become immediately apparent.
 
I can only speak for myself...I wanted something small and light that sounded as good as a 4x12 at volume for that style of music, and delivered on the potential of the Axe regardless of which amp was being modeled. Kept window shopping, testing, and looking around--literally for years--while using leftover parts of old rigs. Nothing was just right. Then the RCF bandwagon passed by and I jumped aboard. Worth every penny for me, and I've stopped looking. I'm done.

Don't know why anybody would call it an 'obsession' with a negative connotation. Aren't we all 'obsessed' with guitar playing?
 
guitarjim said:
Let's face it. Most of what we do is for ourselves. 99.9% of the audience wouldn't be able to tell if I was using an Axe or a small pedal board. They don't notice how accurate the amp sounds are. They don't appreciate all of the layered effects that I'm using or the vast array of tones they are hearing over the course of a set. They are out on the dance floor having a good time, and they would be just as happy if I was playing a simple combo amp. I strive for the best sound I can get because I can tell the difference and it maximizes the enjoyment I get from my own music. Why spend all that money and go through all that work only to settle for hearing something less when I'm on stage?
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I think this comes closer to reality than most posts on this subject. Most people (aside from us nut jobs) probably couldn't care less.
 
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I play in places where foh isn't as pleasant to the ear as others. Some are killer, others suck. The one constant has been my frfr. I know that's what my axe is putting out. Whether the foh is able to replicate that its not my issue. I enjoy playing bc I enjoy what's coming out from my gear. Its nice to have that security when the foh is subpar.
 
I don't worry about the FOH sound, that's what we pay a very capable sound man to handle. I tried several options for monitoring my guitar tone, including running it together with my vocal mix, and alone through several "solutions." I'm not going to name the solutions, because I'm not on a crusade for any of them. When I found the combination that was inspiring to me, I used it. That's not hard to grasp. That it was an FRFR solution is really beside the point... I liked it best. That it was an expensive solution is even more beside the point, as I started cheaper and went progressively higher until I found what I wanted. There are more expensive solutions, as well.

Short answer: because I like the way it sounds and it works in my band format. If you want something different, cheaper, more expensive, louder... by all means, use it.

As far as the "dick swinging" I haven't seen anyone here gigging with a guitar from Wal-mart through a Silvertone amp... if you're playing through anything Fractal Audio makes, you're already done on arguing the cheap alternatives.
 
In my situation I never get a chance to tweak my sounds through the PA ,never time for it and its never set up unless we're giging , then it is analized for flat EQ. So far all the sound companies doing our bigger events do the same, so my objective is to get my personal monitor for the ax as true as possible, to my studio monitors ,which I set up all my patches with ,then it translates well to the PA . ( Cabs never worked for me, sound nothing like whats coming out the PA). Most sound engineers I've worked with are very willing to start of flat then adjust from there. Only had 1 that refused, he said "I Have it set so guitars sound good! and turned away! What do you do? Shoot him?
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
a question for you: if many bass players DI into the FOH anyway, why do bassists bring an amp setup? why not just use the PA system?
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Because only really a huge drum fill monitor would be powerful enough for a bass player. I discourage sound guys - especially when I hire them - putting anything apart from vocals in the monitors. We come together on stage and adjust the backline volumes first to get a balance, before starting the "a bit more of his guitar and keys in mine please". WHen it's my pa, that last bit doesn't happen!

This begs the question I was going to ask Scott, who said earlier he used his FRFR monitor for playing bass as well as guitar... I tried this, but have ended up using bass cab speakers with my Axe and power amp as I've found monitors aren't strong enough for loud-enough bass?
 
I just experimented with the dick swinging theory.

I either need a smaller guitar or a shorter strap.

But in all seriousness .... if going FRFR then it makes little difference whether you use your speaker as a personal monitor and go FOH or use your speaker as pure backline with no FOH help - you still would want to hear things as you dialled them in. It's cool to be able to go from a mic'ed 4x12 sound to an open back non mic'ed 2x12 sound etc.
 
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