Taming the Monster - Leveling Presets Video with the Axe-FX II

luke said:
For matching output volumes I fail to see why it has to be so loud, I understand the theory for final tweaking for tone.
Click to expand...

Because it works. If you do it (matching output volumes) at lover volumes, it won't work once you turn it up.

(**The image in your signature is obnoxiously large.)
 
What do you adjust in order to raise or lower the input and output to get unity gain?

My output Meter is coming up higher than my input. I am also running my input at 100 % (still doesn't tickle red with any of my guitars).
 
boltrecords said:
What do you adjust in order to raise or lower the input and output to get unity gain?

My output Meter is coming up higher than my input. I am also running my input at 100 % (still doesn't tickle red with any of my guitars).
Click to expand...

What guitars/pickups are you using?

I adjust the level out in the Output level of the amp block. Some other guys have mentioned they do it in the output mixer. You adjust your output down to match the input to start; then go from there.
 
Is unity gain only for the cleanest clean preset? Because changing the level parameter on other presets will cause you to sway away from unity gain on that preset
 
boltrecords said:
Is unity gain only for the cleanest clean preset? Because changing the level parameter on other presets will cause you to sway away from unity gain on that preset
Click to expand...

ONLY for that one preset - your cleanest clean. That's just your starting point; the rest will end up differently, it's no matter. All that matters is that first one to set the 'bar' so your output won't clip should you add different boosts.
 
Scott Peterson said:
ONLY for that one preset - your cleanest clean. That's just your starting point; the rest will end up differently, it's no matter. All that matters is that first one to set the 'bar' so your output won't clip should you add different boosts.
Click to expand...

Ok I got it. That's because the clean patches clip the easiest? So as long as those are in unity gain the gainier patches will be fine as far as clipping. Is that correct?

As for my input and guitars, I'm using many but I tried to set the input with my hottest pickups. My suhr modern with Aldrich pups or my les Paul with burstbuckers. Neither can get me into the red even at 100%.
Am I missing something here?
 
If I have a 3db boost set for my clean patch, should set the unity gain with the boost on or off

Sorry if my signature is showing up. I don't know how to turn it off through forum runner.
 
bjjp2 said:
For those with an iPhone or ipad, there are many cheap SPL meter apps for download.
Click to expand...

I wonder how accurate they are. The free one unfortunately only goes up to 110db. I think the iPhone mic only reads up to 110db
 
Last edited:
I really don't see why it should be so difficult adjusting the volume across many presets. You don't need gig volyme, SLP meter or anything like that. Just use your ears. The volume isn't the important thing, the amount of cut in mix is the key. The great thing about the Axe-FX, is that you can just put on a record or a track you recorded, and just play over it with your different presets, and adjust the volume so that they all cut through the mix equally well. If a particular preset is smoother and less trebly, that preset may need to be louder by itself to cut the same as the other presets in a mix. Again, use your ears. It's not something magic or very difficult.
 
boltrecords said:
Ok I got it. That's because the clean patches clip the easiest? So as long as those are in unity gain the gainier patches will be fine as far as clipping. Is that correct?

As for my input and guitars, I'm using many but I tried to set the input with my hottest pickups. My suhr modern with Aldrich pups or my les Paul with burstbuckers. Neither can get me into the red even at 100%.
Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...

Clean patches will have the most dynamic range. Heavier tones are far more compressed, though and can be cranked up MUCH louder before clipping.

How far are your pickups from your strings? That's pretty weak output from humbuckers.

boltrecords said:
If I have a 3db boost set for my clean patch, should set the unity gain with the boost on or off

Sorry if my signature is showing up. I don't know how to turn it off through forum runner.
Click to expand...

Set the 'unity gain' without the boost; but then check to see you are not clipping your output once you do so. Your signature is fine now - there was a HUGE picture of a frequency response chart that I was getting at before. It was BIG.
 
Niklas Nilsson said:
I really don't see why it should be so difficult adjusting the volume across many presets. You don't need gig volyme, SLP meter or anything like that. Just use your ears. The volume isn't the important thing, the amount of cut in mix is the key. The great thing about the Axe-FX, is that you can just put on a record or a track you recorded, and just play over it with your different presets, and adjust the volume so that they all cut through the mix equally well. If a particular preset is smoother and less trebly, that preset may need to be louder by itself to cut the same as the other presets in a mix. Again, use your ears. It's not something magic or very difficult.
Click to expand...

It's a way to be accurate. Sometimes it hard to tell if a preset is actually louder or just cutting through a mix more. I was always finding I'm a little off when trying to use my ears. This works for me and makes things much easier
 
Niklas Nilsson said:
I really don't see why it should be so difficult adjusting the volume across many presets. You don't need gig volyme, SLP meter or anything like that. Just use your ears. The volume isn't the important thing, the amount of cut in mix is the key. The great thing about the Axe-FX, is that you can just put on a record or a track you recorded, and just play over it with your different presets, and adjust the volume so that they all cut through the mix equally well. If a particular preset is smoother and less trebly, that preset may need to be louder by itself to cut the same as the other presets in a mix. Again, use your ears. It's not something magic or very difficult.
Click to expand...

You are right - but the goal here is to match your RMS output, not your peak - at gig volumes and levels. If you peruse any number of forums and read threads, there are a whole lot of folks that do not have a process that works. Using your ears isn't always very accurate either, especially across different ranges of gain and overdrive.

IMHO, your ears will lie to you as they fatigue. Recording and mixing is one thing, playing live is a whole other kettle of fish.
 
Scott Peterson said:
You are right - but the goal here is to match your RMS output, not your peak - at gig volumes and levels. If you peruse any number of forums and read threads, there are a whole lot of folks that do not have a process that works. Using your ears isn't always very accurate either, especially across different ranges of gain and overdrive.

IMHO, your ears will lie to you as they fatigue. Recording and mixing is one thing, playing live is a whole other kettle of fish.
Click to expand...

No I'm afraid not. Mixing is mixing, regardless of if it's live and in the studio. I'm saying this as an mixing engineer. Claiming that is totally different is just not true, and people should know that before they run out and buy SPL meters for no reason.
 
Niklas Nilsson said:
No I'm afraid not. Mixing is mixing, regardless of if it's live and in the studio. I'm saying this as an mixing engineer. Claiming that is totally different is just not true, and people should know that before they run out and buy SPL meters for no reason.
Click to expand...

I'm not asking anyone to run out and buy SPL meters - as noted by others here, you can get them for free as apps on smart phones.

I will respectfully disagree with you though; this method has proven itself to me hundreds of times over the years; just trusting my ears to measure levels (or output meters only measuring peak values) never worked for me.

Running straight to FOH, I do not want the Mix engineer to have to do anything other than bring me up in the mains - everything else is hand's off for him. I handle my own solo boosts, and even if I switch from acoustic to electric with a Bogner Red preset ripping away - the output levels are even. No fader riding.
 
I find that after unifying everything, I always go back and dial overdriven tones up 2-3 dB to account for the ear's perception of the more compressed, driven tones as "quieter" than the punchy cleans. Do you find this to be true, as well, Scott? Granted, I think my drive tones are a bit more gainy in general than yours, probably.
 
ccroyalsenders said:
I find that after unifying everything, I always go back and dial overdriven tones up 2-3 dB to account for the ear's perception of the more compressed, driven tones as "quieter" than the punchy cleans. Do you find this to be true, as well, Scott? Granted, I think my drive tones are a bit more gainy in general than yours, probably.
Click to expand...

I used to do more tweaking levels with my ear in the past; over the years I've gotten very accurate doing what you saw me do in the video.

Now a big point that really matters: in the video I was holding the camera in one hand and the guitar in the other. The real process would be playing the preset in the manner you actually use it. You do not attack a clean the way you do a heavier distorted preset and vice versa. The key is to watch for the middle of the range that you see/hear when you are playing.

I have found that over time, I am at a point where I don't do any sort of adjustment at all beyond using the SPL meter. It's fast, efficient and easy... and in this instance repeatable. (Over time and these videos, you'll probably note that is my credo when using the Axe-FX is to simplify). None of this stuff is magic or complicated.
 
Maybe I am butting in where not needed, and maybe I am misunderstanding if, and/or what, the misunderstanding is here.

Here is what happens..
When you play live, your level/volume will be much louder than "bedroom level." Even if you go direct, the signal will be amplified. If you have a difference of "X" that seems minute at bedroom level, such difference will be multiplied as the level of amplification increases; what may be, say, a 0.2-2dB difference at 50dB could become a 3-6dB difference at 100dB. Where you may not really discern a difference at low volume, at "stage/live volume," those differences WILL become (very) apparent. I made this mistake (once), and it was not fun.

So, what Scott is saying (once again.. I think) is that you should take your cleanest of clean patches.. as this will be the most dynamic (uncompressed output), cutting sound.. and use that as your "target volume/SPL." Raise/lower all of your other patches to equal it, verifying along the way that you are not clipping anywhere. You should now have a set of patches that will be at *relative SPL unity*. If you play with a lower volume, they stand up under scrutiny as any differences are reduced as the volume lowers. By setting everything up with the loudest scenario in mind, ANY scenario at that level or lower, by default therefore, will have the same, even result (whereas the inverse is absolutely NOT true!).

Personally, I find that what ccroyalsenders wrote
ccroyalsenders said:
I find that after unifying everything, I always go back and dial overdriven tones up 2-3 dB to account for the ear's perception of the more compressed, driven tones as "quieter" than the punchy cleans.
Click to expand...
can often be true. To check this, I have placed a mic in the room, set levels, and then played through my settings (not with the Axe).. and then jammed with the band. Listening back, I can get a decent idea of any little tweaks I might need to do. Experience will provide the ability to better and more easily tweak them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom