Disconnecting the Fan in Ultra

[widrace]

There was a post (that I can't find) where Cliff was discussing issues concerning disconnecting the fan. As I recall, the brunt of the matter was the unit is sealed so a fan is required. I also recall something (perhaps later) about being able to get away without the fan in the I, but not the II.

The question is if I ventilate the top (with nothing impeding air flow above the unit) will the processor likely survive? The air in the room that the Ultra lives in here is very well filtered so internal dust/dirt buildup is a non-issue.

Cliff?

 

[craiguitar]

Why go to all that trouble? Try a quieter fan. Are you allergic to fans? Do you possibly need a more powerful amplifier to drown out the sound of the internal fan?

 

[maxdown]

I'd say Cliff would have no option but to say 'Not recommended'.

I've thought about it myself - a circular vent between the mounting posts could even mean a quieter (therefore less CFM) 60 mm fan could be used as it would be drawing outside air. But I decided against it on a couple of counts -

1. Playing live means moving equipment from warm to cold to warm - condensation inside the rack - sucked into the Axe - ouch.

2. Resale value - most prospective buyers would be wary of buying something with such a mod I think

 

[widrace]

Why go to all that trouble?

When vocals are tracked in the control room the fan noise is picked up by the mics. No option for placing it in the machine room - no remote.

Try a quieter fan.

I have a Silent X installed.

Are you allergic to fans?

Yes, and the clients that ask me what that noise is are too.

Do you possibly need a more powerful amplifier to drown out the sound of the internal fan?

No.


Maxdown... I agree that that would probably be Cliffs' normal answer. The situation here is a bit different however. The Ultra never leaves the facility and quiet tracking means much more to me than resale.

Once had a fan noise issue with a recorder that was eliminated after I posted a similar question on their forum. The designer responded with the part # of a larger heat sink and have had no issues whatsoever. He had to say that the warranty would be void (like those who replace fans in the Axe) but expressed confidence there would be no problem.

I’m hoping that something could be done here given the specific application. The last thing I want to do is enclose it in an iso box of some sort.

 

[craiguitar]

OK, then if it's that big of a deal, and from your answer, clearly it is, and you have the unit sat in a studio, then perhaps your best option, if you don't want to ruin the resale value, is to remove the fan, then when you do a recording session remove the lid completely, letting the CPU keep cool, then replace the lid after finishing each session. You mentioned the room is well protected from dust etc, so provided there is enough cool air circulating in the room, surely it wouldn't overheat. Has anyone else tried this?

 

[widrace]

You mentioned the room is well protected from dust etc, so provided there is enough cool air circulating in the room, surely it wouldn't overheat. Has anyone else tried this?

The air is changed 4-5 times an hour - plenty. It's the ''surely it wouldn't overheat" part of the equation I'm trying to nail. To move forward with this I just need some kind of vote of confidence from Cliff - no guarantee required. I realize that an engineered solution for a no-fan set-up doesn't exist so all I can ask for is gut feel.

My other option is to do a test similar to what cobbler did in the other fan thread running right now. I would need to know the max temp limit for the processor and all that, but a nod from Cliff is a whole lot easier. What's your crystal ball saying Cliff?

 

[Stratman68]

If you are not worried about resale-which I am now leaning to-the Ultra is just so great and I also only record-it never moves. I may (mines out of warranty BTW) just remove the fan. Drill holes in the top cover and mount a large really quiet fan on the inside. It's mine so I really don't care about drilling the 4 holes. my only concern will be matching (closely) the wattage, etc. A 120 would really move some air and are super quiet.
Personally, I don't think 4 small holes in the top is a big deal.

 

[s0c9]

You could always think outside the box and while recording vocals, turn off the Ultra !

 

[widrace]

You could always think outside the box and while recording vocals, turn off the Ultra !

I do that when I have to. It's painful to switch it off as it's really a good tool going to waste. I like to use it as a processor for other stuff when tracking vocals as it makes a really good headphone mix with all the goodies available from just one box. Other stuff too. It's worth some work to keep it switched on.

 

[godprobe]

I doubt you'll get any nod from Cliff, given the misinterpretations that spawned from earlier statements he had on the subject, causing this absolute statement on the subject half a year ago...
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/ultra-std-discussion/33659-buzzing.html#post466968
(unsure whether "volume" there means dBs or simply the CFM. given the discussion in the thread and the past, I've assumed CFM.)

(on the other hand, that thread probably has the quote you were looking for quoted within it)

 

[maxdown]

You could also go to the extreme of getting a new lid milled at a metal shop and make your vent in it and put the quietest fan you can find under it (80mm probably going to be quieter than 60mm ones).

You can also get Fan Speed Controllers which sit inline between the fan and the motherboard - the controller bit with the speed dial can be left outside the lid (if you make a hole for the cabling). You can then turn down the fan speed at will when required and back up straight afterwards.

 

[widrace]

Thanks a bunch Godprobe! From the referenced thread:

The AxeFx is designed to operate in ambient conditions up to 50°C; the processor is designed to operate up to 85°C.

The TigerSHARC processor only dissipates a few watts of heat, but that's large in relation to their small surface area. That's a fact of life with all modern processors. The TigerSHARC is rated to operate with its skin temperature as hot as 185°F. The die inside the chip can be even hotter than that, and it will still operate.

btw, 85C and 185F are equal.

I realize this is a can of worms to Cliff, having designed for worse-case like 110° F+ outside, fierce sun load and being racked above a stack of power amps. To publicly 'authorize' a small minority to cheat is only asking for trouble. Having read that thread again now I don't expect a blessing from Cliff - I wouldn't offer one either.

But.... on the other end of the spectrum there are guys like me who are far away from this operational extreme. The problem for hard-core studio owners is that beyond 'a guitar box', the Axe holds its own against many of the high-end processors, and it’s only the fan noise that limits acceptance as one. It may be hard for some to realize that a 'little fan' could cause so much grief, but also realize that most all studios budget significant build costs to establish a respectable noise floor. The last thing a conscientious owner wants to do is fire up something with a fan that can be easily heard (and recorded) on an everyday basis.

The temperatures that cobbler measured with the 11 shows a large safety margin may exist for the best-case situation, and if the temperature limit indicated in the old thread is valid there may indeed be a no-fan solution for some of us. Got a feeling that some numbers specific to the Ultra may appear soon....

You can also get Fan Speed Controllers which sit inline between the fan and the motherboard - the controller bit with the speed dial can be left outside the lid (if you make a hole for the cabling). You can then turn down the fan speed at will when required and back up straight afterwards.

Some time ago I made a little voltage divider and played around with the stock fan to see if a reasonable drop in fan speed would work - nope. Doing this with the 'fan of choice' seems to be the best alternative if the no-fan thing proves scary - thanks. I see just one option for venting the top and that would only be in conjunction with a no-fan situation.

Hope I'm not aggravating your ulcer Cliff - really.

 

[master345]

alter

I amazed that anyone would mess with a $2000-$3000 piece of gear like this. I think it is prudent to just follow the manufacture's guidelines and not jury rig an expensive piece of gear. Why tempt fate or destroy resale value?

 

[bladlus]

I amazed that anyone would mess with a $2000-$3000 piece of gear like this. I think it is prudent to just follow the manufacture's guidelines and not jury rig an expensive piece of gear. Why tempt fate or destroy resale value?

People have different opinions on what's important and what isn't. The fan noise might be trivial to you, but to others it might be a problem big enough to justify voiding the warranty etc.

 

[cobbler]

In my case, I am not concerned about the warranty and/or resale. I like my gear quiet and im in a room where the noise gets easily picked up. As far as tempting fate, I don't see it that way. I consider it a calculated and reasonable risk for my needs.

 

[widrace]

In my case, I am not concerned about the warranty and/or resale. I like my gear quiet and im in a room where the noise gets easily picked up. As far as tempting fate, I don't see it that way. I consider it a calculated and reasonable risk for my needs.

Same here - my Ultra is long out of warranty and it has earned its place in the rack.

I amazed that anyone would mess with a $2000-$3000 piece of gear like this. I think it is prudent to just follow the manufacture's guidelines and not jury rig an expensive piece of gear. Why tempt fate or destroy resale value?

I am doing my due-diligence here, and one of the first things is to garner manufacturer input. My gut feel is it may work fine in this situation and the manufacturer is understandingly unwilling to say anything. Cliff has not responded to this - and that does say something - no? Regardless, I have no intention to tempt fate and just disco the fan with nothing more than my fingers crossed.

 

[coppa]

I also find the fan irritating. Its probably placebo effect but it sounds like there is less overall electrical noise without the fan spinning in the chassis.

I read somewhere Cliff said that the fan is only there for "extreme" situations which I suppose would be like having you axe sit in the sun while you run a complex patch for several hours. I have decided to unplug the fan and install a bigger heat sink.

Removing the old heat sink I found that the contact surface on mine was concave, so it wasn't really touching the chip at all. The heat was being transfered through the thermal goop that was between the two.

Using the little metal clip from the old heat sink I attached a new heatsink that came off a northbridge of an old motheroard the new heatsink is twice the size of the old one. I used some high quality thermal paste on the new heatsink before clipping it on.

Now my axe is totally silent which is so nice compared to that nasty whining sound it used to make. So far it has not blow up yet.

YMMV

 

[JefeMaximo]

Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't you put the Axe in the other room and control by MIDI?

 

[Patzag]

Has anyone tried putting a large heatsink like those in computers with some heat conducting gel/goo on the processor? Would that suffice? I don't know squat on this subject, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents anyways!!! :lol

 

[coppa]

Has anyone grid putting a large heatsink like those in computers with some heat conducting gel/goo on the processor? Would that suffice? I don't know squat on this subject, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents anyways!!! :lol

Yes I've done this. Axe still works. I dont think heatsinks get much smaller then the one that comes stock on the axe fx.
the only problem with mounting a bigger one is that there are no mounting points on the axe fx motherboard for any large heatinks. However you can find heatsinks that are bigger than stock and can still be clipped on with the clip that holds the stock heatsink to the board.