Yikes! We switched to in-ears, and the in-ears we're using sound horrible...

This issue is the main reason that EVERY one of the 6 bands I've played/subbed with over the last 2 yrs (in my neck o the woods) has their own IEM rig. X32R, Ui24R, DL16S, Wing Rack, etc. with a splitter snake in the rack. FOH does FOH, the band can EQ their IEM buss mixes how they want to. The band either feeds the House or plugs into House stage boxes and gets a feed from the House. Most (99.9999%) of the venues we play have their own PA, so none of those bands brings a PA.
Each member controls their IEM mix via tablet. Yes, it does require someone to gain stage and EQ the IEM channels, but once done, there's little variation from gig to gig. Most of the folks I play with play in others bands (as do I) so the biggest issue is changing input channel gain.
Each provides their own IEM rig (wireless or P2-style) and buds.
I can't use Universal fit (small canals) so I've been using 64's A8's for some time.
 
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Keybi said:
There was a bit of humorous exaggeration in my statement.
That's why I used the smiley. Everyone should use what they want.
But I've tried a lot of things. And especially when you're playing on big, loud stages, I think the earphones need to be adjusted to fit your ears.
Otherwise, in-ear monitors are counterproductive and can even damage your hearing. Another point, especially when playing longer musicals, is the issue of ear fatigue.

After a long search, I purchased the 64Audio18t. It's a dream.
Together with our IEM system consisting of a Behringer WING rack, Midas hub, and Midas DP48, the sound is truly incredible.
The absolute dream would of course be the KLANG system, but unfortunately that would cost another five digits and the entire system would then have to be built on a DANTE NETWORK.
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64 Audio makes some good custom IEMs and I almost went that direction as well for custom. Ended up with JH Audio JH16v2 after doing my own research, who knows how they compare to similar 64 audio customs.

I currently use Thieaudio Monarch MKIV's and they are the best sounding IEM I've ever heard. Prior to those I had good experiences with the Crinear Daybreak and Moondrop Blessing 2's.

That's an epic rig you got there though - extremely jealous!
 
Thenewexhibit said:
That’s one of the biggest things I look for when I’m on in ears playing a gig/service, or if I’m doing sound for a band. I ask if my mix is flat, and ask for my guitar with zero processing. Sometimes people need to mangle a sound at FOH which doesn’t work good for the ears, or they mangle it because they don’t know what they’re doing, so I usually request my guitar to be flat.
I also send guitar to the ears or monitor because guitarists want to hear their sound, but usually everything else gets sent with some form of processing, especially drums. Usually bass too.
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I sometimes also "warn" sound engineers that they should be able to run me pretty flat. Of course, they can EQ as they see fit, but sometimes sound engineers start with presets that have EQ baked in on their guitar channels, especially if they're using the same channels for another band with a mic'ed cab. I take pride when engineers show me their "dialed in" EQ and it's just flat or some very minor adjustment.
 
Most of us likely haven't experienced hearing our guitar signal via reference-quality headphones, let alone IEMs. We aren't accustomed to hearing the full sonic range in isolation; even FRFR speakers are colored by the sound of the room, proximity effect, and so on. The first experience of IEMs can be a little disconcerting. It takes time to become accustomed to an IEM mix, and to having your audio mix disconnected from your stage location. On a regular open-ear stage, you can basically mix with your feet. You can walk a little closer to the drummer to hear them better, and so on. With high-quality IEMs, wherever you go, your mix doesn't change - and that itself takes getting used to.

That said, I'll focus on the IEM hardware itself. I've been experimenting with IEMs for years, and currently have $1800+ custom-molded multidriver) units, and $400 generic-fit units.
  • My custom-molded six-driver IEMs are amazing. They have fantastic full-range response and since they are molded to my ear canals, the fit and isolation is near-perfect. I love the way they sound and the imaging is beautiful. Low frequencies are authoritative. The down side is that they provide near-perfect isolation. Anything that isn't in the IEM mix is almost entirely missing, so you need channel splits for everything, and some way to mix everything for you personal needs. And... if your bandmate comes over to you onstage to say something, you need to pull out the IEM to hear them. It's hard to hear the audience response. Sure, there are solutions, like even more expensive IEMs that have little microphones so you get a bit of ambient sound. If I was in a well-funded band with a dedicated monitor splitter and individual mixers, and most (preferably all) of the band was also going with fully custom IEMs, this would be sonic paradise.
  • My Westone Audio AM Pro X30s are generic-fit 3 driver IEMs with an ambient port. They are designed to allow sound to get in. They don't sound nearly as good as my high-end system, but they are in the sweet spot for me. My bands aren't fully IEM, so we have a number of conventional amps and monitors onstage. We're not a loud band so I'm not trying to isolate myself from high dB levels. I only put my guitar and vocals in my IEMs, and everything else arrives via the ambient port. So instead of attempting to build a full individual mix, I just put the things that I need most (guitar / vox) in my IEMs, and the rest comes from the stage mix. I keep my IEM volume level quite low. It's just enough that if I move around the stage (away from the pattern of my backline), I can still hear myself. Especially handy for the one time in our show when I am front and center for longer guitar solos. It's a much simpler solution that still provides the benefit of IEMs, albeit at a less magnificent quality level.
Ultimately, it's balance among complexity / cost / sonic experience. I've found that for my purposes, the Westones give me what I need. As I said above, I can still move closer to audio sources onstage (e.g., drums) to hear them a little better. And my guitar always sounds great no matter where I stand. I use my fancy expensive IEMs when traveling, or listening to recorded music.
 
Sleestak said:
  • My Westone Audio AM Pro X30s are generic-fit 3 driver IEMs with an ambient port.
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I don't want to de-rail the conversation, but I have a question about these ambient ported IEMs.

Do you still have occlusion when you wear them? (I'm referring to that "finger in the ear" effect, where you hear your voice vibrating through your actual skull - no speakers, mics or in-ear transmitter helping you out).

I sing a lot of harmony parts, and like to find my target pitch before I step up to the mic (especially on new songs). I'm very interested in ambient ported IEMs, but can't afford to give up that occlusion. I currently alternate between Westone ProX50 and a $50 set of KZ ZS10's - but I'm looking for an upgrade. Probably 64 Audio A6T or A12T.
 
As someone who has the same AudioTechnica IEM system that the OP just purchased, I can confirm the stock ear buds are gross.
KZs will be a step up.

I have custom molds by 64 Audio, and they are a god send. I have the A12s (buy once, cry once) and they sound like studio monitors. The best part of my night is sound check, because popping the IEMs in and firing up my Axe III - sounds like a concert. I also run my vocal mic into the Axe 3 to blend in reverb, just for my IEMs. It literally sounds like I'm in a studio. The reverbs in the Axe, on a vocal....good lord, they're so good.
If I lost my 64 Audio ear buds, I'd be ordering a new set the next day.
 
GMGM said:
I don't want to de-rail the conversation, but I have a question about these ambient ported IEMs.

Do you still have occlusion when you wear them? (I'm referring to that "finger in the ear" effect, where you hear your voice vibrating through your actual skull - no speakers, mics or in-ear transmitter helping you out).

I sing a lot of harmony parts, and like to find my target pitch before I step up to the mic (especially on new songs). I'm very interested in ambient ported IEMs, but can't afford to give up that occlusion. I currently alternate between Westone ProX50 and a $50 set of KZ ZS10's - but I'm looking for an upgrade. Probably 64 Audio A6T or A12T.
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Get the 12s. Yes, you can hear your head voice to get your pitch.
 
BBN said:
Get the 12s. Yes, you can hear your head voice to get your pitch.
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Excellent.

I've been leaning towards the 12 (more is better, right?). But I've read enough about how guitarists tend to prefer to the A6T. But I'm not just a guitar player, it's my IEM rack - so I often to fix things for the other guys, so if the 12 offer a more acccurate and less colored listening experience, then it kind of makes sense. And since the 12 are really only a little bit more money, that's probably what I go for. I just hate to think I'm missing out on the guitar experience because I have "too many" drivers. I really wish I could try before I buy :)
 
GMGM said:
I don't want to de-rail the conversation, but I have a question about these ambient ported IEMs.

Do you still have occlusion when you wear them? (I'm referring to that "finger in the ear" effect, where you hear your voice vibrating through your actual skull - no speakers, mics or in-ear transmitter helping you out).

I sing a lot of harmony parts, and like to find my target pitch before I step up to the mic (especially on new songs). I'm very interested in ambient ported IEMs, but can't afford to give up that occlusion. I currently alternate between Westone ProX50 and a $50 set of KZ ZS10's - but I'm looking for an upgrade. Probably 64 Audio A6T or A12T.
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Yes, that occlusion effect is there due to the contact of the IEM with the ear canal. It's not as pronounced as with a full seal ear plug or IEM.
 
GMGM said:
Excellent.

I've been leaning towards the 12 (more is better, right?). But I've read enough about how guitarists tend to prefer to the A6T. But I'm not just a guitar player, it's my IEM rack - so I often to fix things for the other guys, so if the 12 offer a more acccurate and less colored listening experience, then it kind of makes sense. And since the 12 are really only a little bit more money, that's probably what I go for. I just hate to think I'm missing out on the guitar experience because I have "too many" drivers. I really wish I could try before I buy :)
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I ordered the A6....then called and talked to them about jumping to the 12s. They talked me into it obviously, and for an extra $500, I just didn't want to regret NOT going with the best ones. I'm am beyond satisfied. The fit/seal of these are absolutely perfect. The sound quality is stellar. I use the Cameron Amp with a Mesa IR - and the spongy bounce of a cab is incredibly real with these in. Another way of saying - these A12s make me appreciate the Fractal more than ever. You are not missing out on anything by having too many drivers. The clarity of the A12s make it so that I hear everything in my mix independently. I never have to crank my guitar to hear it.

I was curious about how loud I am listening in my IEMs at gigs. So the day after a gig, I took my mixer (untouched) and connected my guitar and microphone. Then turned my IEMs on to the same (volume) position as the night before. My IEM mix is primarily guitar and vocals, so this is a great representation of what I hear each night. I turned my IEMs on and was pleasantly surprised at how low the volume was (at home in a silent room). That tells me the seal on the IEMs is doing such a great job, that I do not need to push much volume to hear myself. Thus - I will not do any damage to my ears. Saving my hearing is worth the price alone.
 
BBN said:
I ordered the A6....then called and talked to them about jumping to the 12s. They talked me into it obviously, and for an extra $500, I just didn't want to regret NOT going with the best ones. I'm am beyond satisfied. The fit/seal of these are absolutely perfect. The sound quality is stellar. I use the Cameron Amp with a Mesa IR - and the spongy bounce of a cab is incredibly real with these in. Another way of saying - these A12s make me appreciate the Fractal more than ever. You are not missing out on anything by having too many drivers. The clarity of the A12s make it so that I hear everything in my mix independently. I never have to crank my guitar to hear it.

I was curious about how loud I am listening in my IEMs at gigs. So the day after a gig, I took my mixer (untouched) and connected my guitar and microphone. Then turned my IEMs on to the same (volume) position as the night before. My IEM mix is primarily guitar and vocals, so this is a great representation of what I hear each night. I turned my IEMs on and was pleasantly surprised at how low the volume was (at home in a silent room). That tells me the seal on the IEMs is doing such a great job, that I do not need to push much volume to hear myself. Thus - I will not do any damage to my ears. Saving my hearing is worth the price alone.
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Yeah, I resister IEMs for a long time. A very long time. But took a gig in 2024 where they were required. But as soon as we hit tht first note, I was immediately sold on it. Then proceeded to build my own IEM rig.

A few weeks ago, I made myself a set of silicone molds to house my KZ ZS10's, and it really made a difference. Those KZ's are way better than they have any business being. But all it's done is got me really thinking about going all-in on a properly made set. There's really no going back at this point :)
 
I have been using 64's A8's for a number of years. I've been 99.999% exclusively IEM for ~15 yrs.
I would instantly buy another set - probably the N8's - if they ever got busted. But I do my best to look after my gear (see last para).
I play mostly bass these days, and the A8's have serious deep rich bass tone.
The ADEL ports let me hear reasonable well on stage, with no band playing. Guess I got used to the ADEL's acting like ambient ports. They were called ADEL when I bought them, but due to contractual issues renamed them to APEX and make them in various -Db reduction ranges.
Yes, you still need a decent mix, which is why we run our own IEM rigs.
I'm wireless in (Senn) and wireless out (Mipro-909)
Went with Mipro due to bandwidth, but would have gone with the ATW-3255 system had it been available at the time.

IME - buy once, cry once applies to every aspect of live audio, from guitar to processor to monitoring.
IEM don't work for everyone, but I won't do gigs without them any more!
None of my rig is entry level. I scrimped, saved and bought TOTL!
YMMV
 
I suspect it’s not the actual in ears but is the mixer. Is it Aviom, by any chance? I have found that the Aviom mixers sound really harsh and overly bright regardless of in ear choice.
 
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