Helix Stadium vs Fractal FM9: whch is the king of amp modelers (vs real tube amp)?

I was just having a discussion before my gig last night about this. I have long told people, that the modeling quality on ALL of these units is just incredible and you'll be able to dial in great tones with any of them. So I agree with everyone expressing that point.

For me there are really three factors for why I chose Fractal.

1) The switches and layout flexibility. As someone who uses their modeler mostly in very diverse live situations, I am constantly amazed with how well thought out this feature is. With my FM9, I can configure that thing to do exactly what I need in almost any situation. I don't have extensive experience with other modelers (came to Fractal from an Eleven Rack controlled with an FC1010 and some Line6 stuff in the past), but as I always felt like I had to conform my usage around the limitations of the switches and pedals.
2) The community. Again, I don't have a huge experience with other modelers, but the community support here is absolutely phenomenal. I have never run into a problem that I couldn't get very rapid, pro-level help with. The responsiveness and knowledge of the people on this forum is mind boggling. I can't imagine better customer support than this.
3) Firmware updates. I've been using Fractals for a bit over 5 years now and own two devices. But with the various firmware updates if feels like I've owned 10+ devices. Some of these upgrades are genuinely like getting a whole new unit. So impressive. And because of the community beta testing (see point 2), these updates are usually rock solid and reliable.
 
I agree, that when I decided to "downsize" and sell my rack gear (Triaxis, JMP1, Mesa Stereo 90 Power Amp, Marshall Straight Cab, midi controller etc., - I was gloing direct to FOH with a cab simulator the last 2 years or so), I reviewed the various options in the marketplace decided on Fractal based upon 1) Online Reviews 2) Use by Pro users 3) Extensive Support 4) FREE Firmware updates. The FM9 had just been released and I was on a wait list for about 5 months, but the wait was worth it. I have had no second guessing with this decision...
 
I have never run into a problem that I couldn't get very rapid, pro-level help with.
This is a very underrated part of Fractal land. There is some also great interaction with the L6 team on their social channels but where Fractal stands apart is the quality of online content. Most other modellers it's some dude in a bedroom or on a freebie. Here, it's Copper Carter interviewing Neal Schon. Different level and way more helpful.
 
Fractal models are far more accurate and just sound better. Line 6 has some nice effects but Fractal has plenty and they're also more accurate. That does it for me.
 
Helix has a wide variety of in some cases unique effects. But the general opinion is that the algorithms are not the best. Helix Stadium doesn't really change the effects at this time other than improved tone through better hardware. They're certainly usable and perfectly ok in most situations. But maybe don't compare with Strymon, H9 or Fractal.
 
I was just having a discussion before my gig last night about this. I have long told people, that the modeling quality on ALL of these units is just incredible and you'll be able to dial in great tones with any of them. So I agree with everyone expressing that point.

For me there are really three factors for why I chose Fractal.

1) The switches and layout flexibility. As someone who uses their modeler mostly in very diverse live situations, I am constantly amazed with how well thought out this feature is. With my FM9, I can configure that thing to do exactly what I need in almost any situation. I don't have extensive experience with other modelers (came to Fractal from an Eleven Rack controlled with an FC1010 and some Line6 stuff in the past), but as I always felt like I had to conform my usage around the limitations of the switches and pedals.
2) The community. Again, I don't have a huge experience with other modelers, but the community support here is absolutely phenomenal. I have never run into a problem that I couldn't get very rapid, pro-level help with. The responsiveness and knowledge of the people on this forum is mind boggling. I can't imagine better customer support than this.
3) Firmware updates. I've been using Fractals for a bit over 5 years now and own two devices. But with the various firmware updates if feels like I've owned 10+ devices. Some of these upgrades are genuinely like getting a whole new unit. So impressive. And because of the community beta testing (see point 2), these updates are usually rock solid and reliable.
Great list and I completely agree. I would add:
4) Deep editing, especially core tones from amp and cab blocks. I have lots of experience with Helix and Quad Cortex. Some of the amp models are just fine and sound great. But there have been many times when the amp didn't have quite enough gain, or had too much bass on the input side resulting in flubby distortion tones, or wasn't quite bright enough, etc. In the old days I didn't hesitate to modify tube amps to get them to do what I wanted. With Helix and Quad Cortex, there's not much you can do without using a lot of pre and post blocks. With Fractal amp and cab blocks, everything you need to fine tune an amp for your purposes is right there in the block. Save it to your library and you have your own custom amp model.
 
I'm really happy with FM9, but I have to admit my curiosity is starting to grow... what will FAS offer to replace FM9?
 
A bit late to the party but I'll give my 2 cents regarding amp modeling quality.

It's true that since a few years you can get excellent tones even out of very cheap modelers, but good tone doesn't necessarily equate to good modeling.

E.g. Gilmour recently revealed that, back in 1994, he recorded the solo for Coming Back To Life that ended up on the album with a Zoom rack unit (and still continues to use it today to record demos), that's always been considered a pretty good guitar tone by his fans, but I bet most of us who have used one would agree that Zoom devices from that era probably represent the shittiest amp modelers ever made.

This basically means that if you have the skills you can make shitty modelers sound great... Or, on the opposite side, make great modelers sound shitty.
And this in turn means that the subjective quality of tones one could get out of a device isn't a measure for amp modeling quality... The only measure for that is accuracy, a word that probably some of you don't like or don't care about, but it's really the only way to tell if an emulation is objectively good or not.

And if we talk strictly about accuracy, I'm pretty sure Fractal still has a pretty big advantage over most competitors.

Before going digital, for several years I mainly used a Hiwatt head as my main amp and Fractal has been for a long time the only modeler that really nailed that amp among the ones I've tried, even 11 years ago when I got my first Axe FX II. From that point in time it only got better in replicating some of its nuances.

The Helix (not Stadium) model sounds nothing like the real deal, it has a "nasal" voicing and totally lacks the harmonic richness of the real Hiwatt, let alone the way it reacts to drive pedals... The real one (and the Fractal model too) when you find the sweet spot on the level hitting the power amp, makes even the dirtiest and fuzziest distortion pedal sound smooth and creamy, good luck replicating that behaviour with the Helix.
It was one of the oldest model in the Helix though and I hope they significantly improved it in the Stadium (I'll definitely try it when I get a chance).

Over the years I've also tried Kemper, Headrush, Eleven Rack, Mooer, Nux, several plugins and some other modelers I don't even recall atm, none of them could nail that amp either.
Till now the only things that come close are some NAM and Tonex captures, but having to deal with captures is still a drawback for me.

I could say the same thing about some drive models and effects, good luck finding e.g. an Electric Mistress model in another hardware modeler that really sounds like the real one, or a univibe, a big muff, a tube driver, a bb preamp, a dist+, a colorsound powerboost... and so on.
(The Fuzz Face and Big Muff models in the new UAD plugin really surprised me though!)

In short, I don't think at all that modeling (generally speaking) has plateaud and there can still be significant differences between different devices/brands.
How much that matters to each individual user is a different matter and, being a subjective opinion, isn't really up for debate.
 
This basically means that if you have the skills you can make shitty modelers sound great... Or, on the opposite side, make great modelers sound shitty.
And this in turn means that the subjective quality of tones one could get out of a device isn't a measure for amp modeling quality... The only measure for that is accuracy, a word that probably some of you don't like or don't care about, but it's really the only way to tell if an emulation is objectively good or not.
This is insightful.
 
I owned a Helix before. Great unit, but I got into the Fractal world during the first run of FM3's (no headphone jack). I've wandered to other things since, (QC, IRX) and kept coming back to the Fractal. Someone already said it best... and I've used that analogy for modern PA systems - You need to work hard to make modellers of today sound bad. Most times, this stuff you could plug in out of the box use a factory preset and you're gig ready.

While I wouldn't say difficult if you're trained on the ecosystem, everyone knows that dialing in a preset on Fractal with board controls is more involved than some of the competitors... but the others don't have the same level of adjustability either. I think it will be a great challenge to bring all that functionality from the PC editor, and condense it down to a format that's going to work on a touch screen display on the floor. There may end up being compromises. That said, there are some pretty creative minds out there. So It will be exciting to see what is in store if they're going that route.

People groan about having to adjust things mid-gig, and with the perform pages if you need to adjust more than 20 parameters mid show, then you really don't have your homework done. I think it looks unprofessional when you're hired to play a gig and you're kneeling down fiddling with your equipment frequently during a gig. So from that point of view, I don't think the ease of use thing is a deal breaker for me.
 
The happiest I've been with my FM9 is to forget ALL I can do with it, and instead use it as I have played every other gig in my life: One amp (and cab), three effects, and ...oh yeah, nothing else.
 

I bought a Stadium day one from GC and it has been returned after 3 weeks. Pretty much a let down in every aspect. A lot of hype over easy editing etc. The amp selection is meeger and they honestly do not sound much better. It does not sound bad just has maybe a little more frequency response or better resolution but nothing ground breaking.
Also the $$ is not worth it when a FM9 that has more amps and more (and better) effects for less $$.
 
I owned a Helix before. Great unit, but I got into the Fractal world during the first run of FM3's (no headphone jack). I've wandered to other things since, (QC, IRX) and kept coming back to the Fractal. Someone already said it best... and I've used that analogy for modern PA systems - You need to work hard to make modellers of today sound bad. Most times, this stuff you could plug in out of the box use a factory preset and you're gig ready.

While I wouldn't say difficult if you're trained on the ecosystem, everyone knows that dialing in a preset on Fractal with board controls is more involved than some of the competitors... but the others don't have the same level of adjustability either. I think it will be a great challenge to bring all that functionality from the PC editor, and condense it down to a format that's going to work on a touch screen display on the floor. There may end up being compromises. That said, there are some pretty creative minds out there. So It will be exciting to see what is in store if they're going that route.

People groan about having to adjust things mid-gig, and with the perform pages if you need to adjust more than 20 parameters mid show, then you really don't have your homework done. I think it looks unprofessional when you're hired to play a gig and you're kneeling down fiddling with your equipment frequently during a gig. So from that point of view, I don't think the ease of use thing is a deal breaker for me.
Ten concerts in a row, NEVER had to adjust anything. If you know what you are doing, the result is expected. The only thing you might need to adjust is a low and high pass filter and the level of delay and reverb, and for that you have a global adjustment, very easily modified. And as you said, you have perform pages.

The people that says that you need a computer to operate the unit, it’s very obvious to me that didn’t spent ten minutes learning how to set it up.

That was the first thing I did when I bought it and had the first concert planned.

I’m so happy with my sound, live and at home.
 
I bought a Stadium day one from GC and it has been returned after 3 weeks. Pretty much a let down in every aspect. A lot of hype over easy editing etc. The amp selection is meeger and they honestly do not sound much better. It does not sound bad just has maybe a little more frequency response or better resolution but nothing ground breaking.
Also the $$ is not worth it when a FM9 that has more amps and more (and better) effects for less $$.
THIS. They didn’t even upgrade any of the effects (at least is what I’ve read) after so many years. There’s no current match to our Fm9. Quad Cortex didn’t impress me at all either. The sound is very compressed and the effects are nah.

I don’t trust a YouTuber anymore. It’s obvious they are trying to sell it with phrases like Ease of use, you don’t need to bring a computer, and nonsenses like that BUT, very few comments about the quality of the sounds, feeling and so on.

Nobody talk about channels in our units either, which is an amazing tool and very intelligent way to have a very clean preset.
 
Me neither... I know people always say that with modelers you have to use high and low cuts, but if a modeler does what it is supposed to do, you get exactly what you expect for a chosen signal chain.

I gigged the Helix for over 200 hours the past four years before switching to the Axe III Turbo and with the Helix I always had to use LPF and HPF to make it sound somewhat good. On the Axe however I'll use HPFs and LPFs to make an already great sounding tone fit the mix - if at all. We always have the same light and tone guys for each gig and I stopped bothering adjusting the HPFs and LPFs myself, just passing the raw output to the FOH. After all people still use real guitar amps and mic them up for live shows, getting great results without being able to dial in a LPF and HPF on their own so...

After I didn't get along with the Helix (and didn't like other Line 6 products either), the Stadium is a big NO - especially considering the high price of these things which is obviously needed to pay the marketing departmend and all these influencers... I just hope they don't stick to the same terrible update philosophy like they did with the Helix Floor. The most interesting amps (which of course were available since the release over 10 years ago) never got updated and overhauled, but they rather added some niche amps no one cares about. Makes me appreciate all the free updates we get for our FAS products even more...
 
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