Fletcher Munson nightmare :(

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Daviebutt

Member
This may be a daft question but.... why hasnt somebody invented a device that automatically EQs your sound so that it sounds exactly the same as the volume increases (RE: Fletcher Munson Curve)? I can't believe that this is an unsolvable technological problem? How come nobody (Fractal for example) has come up with an option where their device compensates for EQ changes, as volume goes up, thereby making preset creation a far easier and more predictable experience?
 
That’s what the “loud” switch on old stereos did. I’m not sure it’s a mathematically exact curve, but an average, because all of our ears are different. The loud switch AFAIK would just put a fixed boost on bass and treble - bit of a blunt instrument.
 
Chuck P said:
How's the Axe supposed to know how loud it is?
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I have thought the same thing myself in the past. There would have to be some kind of device or system to monitor the actual DB's of volume in the room. There are so many variables involved that this becomes a very complex problem, which is why there isn't a simple solution to it.It would be great if there was! :cool:
 
I play pretty loud on my phones when I can’t run the speakers so my presets work in or out of the house. Not sure about the accuracy but iI just put the mic on my phone as close to the phone speakers as possible and shoot for 80-85 db. Using that NIOSH app. 80 is a little low 85-90 is better but I try not to kill my ears too much. It would be nice to have an app where you set a mic in your space and the app would give you an auto eq. Maybe something built into future products.
 
Why couldn't the loudness parameter be inserted manually?

For example, you could play your rig at live volume at sound check, use a loudness meter, then go in, add an FM block near the end of the chain, and insert the loudness input with the decibels that you recorded with your meter. Then the block spits out the applicable EQ adjustment curve.
 
Daviebutt said:
This may be a daft question but.... why hasnt somebody invented a device that automatically EQs your sound so that it sounds exactly the same as the volume increases (RE: Fletcher Munson Curve)? I can't believe that this is an unsolvable technological problem? How come nobody (Fractal for example) has come up with an option where their device compensates for EQ changes, as volume goes up, thereby making preset creation a far easier and more predictable experience?
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How does your hearing compare to mine? Fletcher-Munson curves are an average of many people's hearing, and two people on the extremes won't fit a simple adjustment, any more than the loudness button on a stereo matches everybody's tastes for a given volume.

I don't even want Fractal to attempt to solve this, it's a waste of their time. Instead, the best solution I've found is to EQ my presets at stage volume and then freeze them and live with how they sound when I'm at a much lower volume. Eventually we begin to get an idea of the difference between the two, and can estimate how it'd sound later, when we get to adjust at the real volume, but that time adjusting them at volume is the most important step.

Gebella said:
For example, you could play your rig at live volume at sound check, use a loudness meter, then go in, add an FM block near the end of the chain, and insert the loudness input with the decibels that you recorded with your meter. Then the block spits out the applicable EQ adjustment curve.
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Because the Fletcher-Munson curve is an average, it's not an exact representation of everyone's hearing. So, no matter what the hardware could do, it could be wrong for individuals so they'd still have to adjust the controls.

The problem isn't the hardware, it's our organic, adaptive, self-preservation mechanisms that are causing the problem.
 
1. get a free decibel app for your phone

2. turn it on

3. dial in your presets at at least 92db level registering on your decibel app.

most apps will show that as a threshold point for crossing into “loud”.

“take that, Fletcher Munson effect!”

that solves the problem of dialing in at home low volume then turning up at a gig and being surprised with a poor sound that does not punch through the other instruments .

always dial up mids. the guitar is a mids instrument. if you want to be heard above a drummer you need mids and high mids in your tone.

hope that helps!
 
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tysonlt said:
If you share your specific scenario, perhaps we might be able to share some strategies to help.
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I just think that, with the tech thats readily available today, I'm surprised that we still have to deal with this issue. Imagine if you could buy a device (with a built in mic) that allowed you to dial in your guitar sound / EQ, as a headphone mix, and then and automatically adjusted your EQ so it continued to sound "the same" as you increased its volume. It'd be labour saving, time saving, it'd remove the guess work and it'd save your hearing! I appreciate that you'd need to use this device at every gig. But I think it'd be a game changer.
I find band mates get impatient and fed up when I'm endlessly tweaking my EQ and, in honesty, I'm not good at it. I rarely feel confident with my guitar sound at volume.
 
Build your presets at volume to start with, ideally in a full mix context. That's probably what you care about most.

If you regularly find yourself in important situations where you need to be unusually quiet, you might need to also do some listening and adjusting in that kind of context too.
 
tysonlt said:
That’s what the “loud” switch on old stereos did. I’m not sure it’s a mathematically exact curve, but an average, because all of our ears are different. The loud switch AFAIK would just put a fixed boost on bass and treble - bit of a blunt instrument.
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Really? Huh, never knew that. Not that I knew what a Fletcher Munson Curve was, when I was a teen, but I knew I liked the 'Loud' switch on my Sansui amp. Now I know why! :)
 
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