All amp models have have a high frequency rasp

[Chromatizm]

You won't clip the input when the red leds light up occasionally.

Sadly, this is not correct. You can see for yourself by recording a "hot" guitar via USB to avoid the clipping which might be introduced by the the interfaces and converters of other devices in the recording chain.
I did for my guitar and posted results on the forum a few times. Anything other -18dB pad tickets the red with Fishmans, and clips the waveform, destroying the peaks.
Other pickups maybe not so much, but these are extremely hot.

 

[Aleksi]

Sadly, this is not correct. You can see for yourself by recording a "hot" guitar via USB to avoid the clipping which might be introduced by the the interfaces and converters of other devices in the recording chain.
I did for my guitar and posted results on the forum a few times. Anything other -18dB pad tickets the red with Fishmans, and clips the waveform, destroying the peaks.
Other pickups maybe not so much, but these are extremely hot.

I have several sets of Fishmans (Classics and a set of 8 string Abasis). I don't understand how they would clip the input if the level into the converter is below clipping.

 

[Chromatizm]

I don't understand how they would clip the input if the level into the converter is below clipping.

Well, simple. If they tickle the red, there are NOT below the required threshold.
Verify it with the facts - do a recording via USB and you'll see something like this: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm3-input-pad-setting-for-hot-pickups-again.193383/
I can't find a thread which started this investigation, but there was probably 20+ pages long discussion in the Axe3 forum, with suggestions and test results by different people.

 

[Aleksi]

Then you could not have any pickups tickle the red as they would clip. This would mean that either FAS is wrong about how their hardware works or that there's a bug.

 

[GlennO]

Then you could not have any pickups tickle the red as they would clip. This would mean that either FAS is wrong about how their hardware works or that there's a bug.

The FM3 has no input clip indicator like the FM9 and Axe-FX have, so the only way to know for certain that you're not clipping when you're tickling the red is to do the procedure Chromatizm described.

 

[Aleksi]

The FM3 has no input clip indicator like the FM9 and Axe-FX have, so the only way to know for certain that you're not clipping when you're tickling the red is to do the procedure Chromatizm described.

I slam all eight strings as hard as possible on the neck pickup and set it to tickle the red. It will never clip when playing normally.

 

[Chromatizm]

Therefore, I was toying with the idea of the output parameter within the INPUT block.

Man, with Fishmans I like -18dB in the Input block SO MUCH MORE than in the Output block!
This is a fucking revelation. How come I never tried this before and was using it simply as another "input trim"....

So I took Justin's GOT preset (I call it "the Voice", and if I make a copy of it to try with another amp, it start with it - "The Voice of Dumble" or "The Voices of Two Stones" and add two scenes in the end.
Scene 7 has Input block level on -18, and Output on 0; Scene 8 is reversed.

I like the 7th scene so much more than 8th! The 8th sounds all compressed not in a nice way. The 7th sounds like I'm playing the normal single coil guitar, which was exactly what I needed, I actually use the neck single coil "Tele" mode on my Abasi's 80% of the time because I never liked the humbucking mode - but this changed in a split second once I tried it with -18dB in the input block. All modes are improved.

I guess I know what I'm doing in 2024! Changing In/Out settings in all my presets...
But first I would also test again the USB recording thing to see if I still need the padding and maybe some Output block level.
I've used a 6th scene to demonstrate what happens once you compensate for the volume drop by having high level of the Amp block. I'm not sure if I like it, will test a lot and report back.

The thing is that -18dB in the Output with 0dn in the Input sounds "better" for a legato playing - everything is smoothed out and more mid-rangy. With -18dB in the input block it much more dynamic and bluesy. The dynamic is pretty much the same, but the sound is not.

So probably I won't change all presets at once - I'll need to see which ones I need for "bluesy" all-dynamic feel and sound, and which I'll better leave "compressed" for easier legato shredding.

 

[Chromatizm]

I slam all eight strings as hard as possible on the neck pickup and set it to tickle the red. It will never clip when playing normally.

Do the USB test.
Just do it Take nothing for granted, just do it.

 

[AlanAlligator]

Well, simple. If they tickle the red, there are NOT below the required threshold.
Verify it with the facts - do a recording via USB and you'll see something like this: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm3-input-pad-setting-for-hot-pickups-again.193383/
I can't find a thread which started this investigation, but there was probably 20+ pages long discussion in the Axe3 forum, with suggestions and test results by different people.

What part of the graphs in this thread show clipping? Sorry if this is a stupid question - i'm new to all this

 

[Chromatizm]

What part of the graphs in this thread show clipping?

Copying from another thread:

See the flat top? That's peak of the sound being destroyed

Then you could not have any pickups tickle the red as they would clip.

Actually, the manual says this: "” Play loud, open chords to push the levels as you watch the IN 1 [INSTRUMENT] meter LEDs. It’s OK to tickle the red LED once in a while, but if actual clipping occurs, you must pad the input"
So it doesn't say the occasional tickling is not clipping

 

[Chromatizm]

With -18dB in the input block it much more dynamic and bluesy. The dynamic is pretty much the same, but the sound is not.

Wow, the dynamic with -18dB in the Input block is actually insane.
The volume of both scenes is exactly same, but when I strum strings hard, the 7th scene clips the input of the interface, just like it would with good single coils on a clean sound. 8th scene never does that, it is already compressed.
I decreased the Input level of the scene 7 to -30dB, and the internal interface still clips!! It stopped only on -35dB (still clips in humbucking mode on a very hard strum). Insane dynamics!!!

Fucking awesome. I'm so glad I've tried this...

 

[Aleksi]

Copying from another thread:
View attachment 132228
See the flat top? That's peak of the sound being destroyed


Actually, the manual says this: "” Play loud, open chords to push the levels as you watch the IN 1 [INSTRUMENT] meter LEDs. It’s OK to tickle the red LED once in a while, but if actual clipping occurs, you must pad the input"
So it doesn't say the occasional tickling is not clipping

The red led lights up at -6db. From the manual: "The red LED indicates -6dB." That's not clipping.

 

[Stratman68]

Listening both sound sample through my iphone speaker, the archetype sound lifeless and thin. The fm3 sounds good to me .

try the gift of tone preset from this thread https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/gift-of-tone-2023-4-chris-baseford.200269/

Here is the sound sample using Scene 8. I haven't tweaked the preset yet

Now I am NOT a metal guy-But the clip posted by 621 is light years ahead of the clips posted by the OP. The OPs clip sound so unclear, no definition and , etc, etc. Just my 2 cents, it is NOT the fractal gear that is the issue.

 

[AlanAlligator]

Now I am NOT a metal guy-But the clip posted by 621 is light years ahead of the clips posted by the OP. The OPs clip sound so unclear, no definition and , etc, etc. Just my 2 cents, it is NOT the fractal gear that is the issue.

Is that the clip from the fractal or the NDSP plugins?

 

[Chromatizm]

The red led lights up at -6db. From the manual: "The red LED indicates -6dB." That's not clipping.

Sorry, you are reading it wrong. You are correct if you are saying it it not necessarily a sign of clipping. It simply means that the signal EXCEEDS -6dB.
But for how much - this you can't know, because we don't have a clipping meter implemented in the FW, only Axe3 user can know for sure. It can exceed 6dB enough to cause clipping. So to make sure you are not clipping, you need to record via USB and look for the signs of clipping - squished peaks on the waveform.

You can dive deeper in this conversation in these threads:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/emg-18v-red-lighting-fm3-with-18db-pad.200085/
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/where-are-you-setting-your-input-level.192779/
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/input-clipping-thread.193293/

 

[StratPIt]

I'm always someone who likes to think outside the box and try to look at things from a greater distance.

I took a look at the technical data of the FM3 and the input can process up to 16dbu signals. In voltage terms, that's 0 to 2V.
If this maximum voltage is exceeded, overdriving occurs.
If the pickups deliver so much signal strength, this could be the reason for the problems.

If necessary, test and use input 2, as this can handle up to 20dbu.

The input trimmer, which is always only considered, cannot limit the incoming signal, but I use it to determine "how much of my input signal goes into the A/D. converter.
And that is the decisive difference to an Anslog guitar amplifier and not comparable.

If the input in the FM3 receives a signal that is too high, the control to the A/D converter can no longer adjust it.

You can often read tips here in the forum when settings of less than 10% and less have to be set for the pickups used!

Here, too, I would recommend input 2.
Perhaps this will help to get to the bottom of the cause.

 

[Chromatizm]

If necessary, test and use input 2, as this can handle up to 20dbu.

I tried this and used In2 for some time but never felt it is superior to In1 in terms of sound with Fishmans.
But with these updates I might look into it once again actually, why not.
I always felt Fishmans sound not so good in FM3, but only by lowering IN1 level significantly was I able to get the sound I wanted. Maybe IN2 with low level and padding will be even better - let's see! Fishmans are not your "average" pickups, so why not.

 

[StratPIt]

Note that you must use a Humbuster Cabel for input 2 as this is a balanced input.

 

[AlanAlligator]

Note that you must use a Humbuster Cabel for input 2 as this is a balanced input.

Is a Humbuster required, or will a TRS cable work?

 

[Stratman68]

Is that the clip from the fractal or the NDSP plugins?

Your clip was the First one you posted the FM3. The other clip was the one 621 posted. massive difference in clarity and definition. I was just pointing out that the issue was not the hardware. Not a dig or anything. Just a fact. An observation from someone who has been playing guitar for 45 years. Your post was about the sounds you were getting. I pointed out it's NOT the fractal gear. Period.