All amp models have have a high frequency rasp

Aeser said:
Yea I mean I figured he could just search and find it quickly as I’m kind of busy atm but here it is:

Thread about high gain active pickup crackley fizziness
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I agree with you 100%
If you look at Duplantier from Gojira he uses the 5153 Red channel which has an obscene amount of gain BUT his pickups are very low output 7 . 5 resistance on the bridge IMO you hit a HiGain amp with a 17 resistance pickup and a boost your going to struggle with artifacts , string noise , and much higher noise overall especially in the high mid , high treb frequencies
 
Is using the 'input pad' recommended for particuarly hot pickups? I think I currently have it set at -6dB. Is this right?

Also, should the level of each individual block be set at a particular level? If i want to increase the volume of the sound coming out of my speakers, what is the best place to do this? The level in the amp block or output block or on the physical level control on the FM3 etc?

Thanks again :)
 
AlanAlligator said:
Is using the 'input pad' recommended for particuarly hot pickups? I think I currently have it set at -6dB. Is this right?
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I use Fishman Abasi's. They require Input pad of -12 or -18 (I use -18), PLUS all my presets are -18 on the level of Output block.
And I still keep Amp levels in Amp block in their "normal" -10dB or so values, so I DON'T compensate the decrease in the overall volume by increasing the level in the amp block - it immediately defeats the padding and Output compensation.
Any values higher than that result in clipping. I've made a couple of threads here about that too, took my quite long time to figure out wjy my sound is all messed up even on factory presets.

In fact, right now I'm using Shiva Clean preset where no blocks have Levels set higher than 0, and I still use -20dB on the Amp level itself. If I set it to 0, DAW will show a brick waveform, full Death Magnetic style, no matter if you play clean of distorted.
So here's the reality of fire breathing pickups, we just need to adjust.
 
AlanAlligator said:
How do you compensate? Or do you not compensate at all? Maybe i'm not understanding something...
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Input pad value doesn't affect the volume of the sound which enters your grid. It is some clever under-the-hood compensation for the output of the pickups. You'll hear no change in volume when changing the input pad. But that's where you start - it's a first step.

Fishman's "hotbuckers" will require you not only to use the input padding, which I experimented with a lot, and landed on the -18dB setting, but also it will require you to lower the overall preset volume. Not by the hardware "Output" knob on the top of your unit - it acts just the same as the volume knob on your phone - but in the Output block on the grid, which affects the actual sound generated by the blocks on the grid.
Set the volume of the Output block in the grid to a lower value - my experiments led me to -18dB. It's a second step.

Again, first step is NOT changing the volume of your presets. It's just allows the dynamic range of the instrument to pass through FM3 in full. If you record in DAW using USB with the 0dB input pad value with Fishmans, you'll see the "brick" waveform - it will be completely crushed. That's how you get the "dull" sound. -6dB is much better, but again, after tons of recording and zooming in on waveforms I've landed on -18dB. Only this setting (almost) never has flat tops of the signal. Even -12dB clips a signal a little on Fishmans.

But the second step will change the volume of your preset drastically. It's -18dB! Your natural inclination would be to increase the levels in the blocks on the grid to compensate. You shouldn't do this, because it will defeat the results of the step two and you are back to square one. So keep the volume of all amps, including the most low powered ones, to at least -10dB of the Amp1 Level. In the screenshots below you see that I have to use -22dB on the cranked Shiva Clean.

You'll need to have a higher volume on your interface or monitors or whatever you use to amplify the sound. But don't do it on blocks on the grid!

Makes more sense now? These are my settings for all presets:
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Chromatizm said:
Input pad value doesn't affect the volume of the sound which enters your grid. It is some clever under-the-hood compensation for the output of the pickups. You'll hear no change in volume when changing the input pad. But that's where you start - it's a first step.

Fishman's "hotbuckers" will require you not only to use the input padding, which I experimented with a lot, and landed on the -18dB setting, but also it will require you to lower the overall preset volume. Not by the hardware "Output" knob on the top of your unit - it acts just the same as the volume knob on your phone - but in the Output block on the grid, which affects the actual sound generated by the blocks on the grid.
Set the volume of the Output block in the grid to a lower value - my experiments led me to -18dB. It's a second step.

Again, first step is NOT changing the volume of your presets. It's just allows the dynamic range of the instrument to pass through FM3 in full. If you record in DAW using USB with the 0dB input pad value with Fishmans, you'll see the "brick" waveform - it will be completely crushed. That's how you get the "dull" sound. -6dB is much better, but again, after tons of recording and zooming in on waveforms I've landed on -18dB. Only this setting (almost) never has flat tops of the signal. Even -12dB clips a signal a little on Fishmans.

But the second step will change the volume of your preset drastically. It's -18dB! Your natural inclination would be to increase the levels in the blocks on the grid to compensate. You shouldn't do this, because it will defeat the results of the step two and you are back to square one. So keep the volume of all amps, including the most low powered ones, to at least -10dB of the Amp1 Level. In the screenshots below you see that I have to use -22dB on the cranked Shiva Clean.

You'll need to have a higher volume on your interface or monitors or whatever you use to amplify the sound. But don't do it on blocks on the grid!

Makes more sense now? These are my settings for all presets:
View attachment 132193
View attachment 132194
View attachment 132195
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Ah! Thats brilliant, thank you :)

Does increasing the volume by the physical dial on the FM3 have the same effect as increasing the level on the grid, or is it the same as increasing the volume on the monitors?
 
AlanAlligator said:
Does increasing the volume by the physical dial on the FM3 have the same effect as increasing the level on the grid, or is it the same as increasing the volume on the monitors?
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Output hardware knobs (both of them on FM3) has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the grid. So you are free to use whatever setting you like on the Out1 hardware knob in the particular situation. It will NOT change anything on the grid - anything. Just the overall volume output of your device, not of your presets.

At home my Out1 hardware knob is almost always maxed, because my Focal and Genelec monitors don't have volume knobs of their own. I plug Out1 XLR into ZOOM USB interface with "direct monitoring" enabled, and set interface's preamp knobs in such a way that it doesn't clips with my presets when they leveled normally (with -18dB input pad, -18dB Output block on the grid, and about -10dB of the Amp block level for most amps).

This also serves as a second line of control if I ever set the levels on the grid too hot. It clips on the interface and I know I need to back down Amp block level (or maybe I turned compressor level up too much, or else).

I use Output hardware knob at night hours when I need to make overall FM3 sound lower without affecting sounds coming from my PC, or at rehearsals and gigs by setting it lower than 100% - that how I can compensate if sound guy lowered my output during the sound check or the band went completely nuts and I need to join them :)
 
Chromatizm said:
Output hardware knobs (both of them on FM3) has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the grid. So you are free to use whatever setting you like on the Out1 hardware knob in the particular situation. It will NOT change anything on the grid - anything. Just the overall volume output of your device, not of your presets.

At home my Out1 hardware knob is almost always maxed, because my Focal and Genelec monitors don't have volume knobs of their own. I plug Out1 XLR into ZOOM USB interface with "direct monitoring" enabled, and set interface's preamp knobs in such a way that it doesn't clips with my presets when they leveled normally (with -18dB input pad, -18dB Output block on the grid, and about -10dB of the Amp block level for most amps).

This also serves as a second line of control if I ever set the levels on the grid too hot. It clips on the interface and I know I need to back down Amp block level (or maybe I turned compressor level up too much, or else).

I use Output hardware knob at night hours when I need to make overall FM3 sound lower without affecting sounds coming from my PC, or at rehearsals and gigs by setting it lower than 100% - that how I can compensate if sound guy lowered my output during the sound check or the band went completely nuts and I need to join them :)
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This is really helpful stuff, thank you so much!

Is there a global setting that I can change to lower the levels of the blocks in all my presets?
 
AlanAlligator said:
Is there a global setting that I can change to lower the levels of the blocks in all my presets?
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1. Make a full backup of your presets using the Fractal bot before doing the next steps. Do it regularly, btw :)
2. Set the level of the Out1 (or Out2, whichever you use) block on the grid to a desired value, in our case -18dB
3. While keeping Shift button on your keyboard pressed, right click on the Level knob in the block. Select "apply to multiple presets" or some other line like this, I'm away from my PC now - you'll not mistake it with anything else
4. Preset management/selection window will appear. Select some or all presets, press Save
5. The unit will start reading all presets, updating them and saving back. Take your time, make a tea, read the forum, let it work uninterrupted. If it will stuck on some preset for a very long time, make a note of that preset, because you'll probably need to reboot your device and start again from the preset which was stuck. Not something to worry about, it will not break your presets, but just to be on the safe side, make sure to complete step 1 first. I had to restart the process a couple of time IIRC, but everything is good.

You'll need to make a habit of lowering the Out1 block level for every preset you download from other people, like GOT presets, or it will hurt your ears :) But you'll quickly get used to this step.
 
Chromatizm said:
1. Make a full backup of your presets using the Fractal bot before doing the next steps. Do it regularly, btw :)
2. Set the level of the Out1 (or Out2, whichever you use) block on the grid to a desired value, in our case -18dB
3. While keeping Shift button on your keyboard pressed, right click on the Level knob in the block. Select "apply to multiple presets" or some other line like this, I'm away from my PC now - you'll not mistake it with anything else
4. Preset management/selection window will appear. Select some or all presets, press Save
5. The unit will start reading all presets, updating them and saving back. Take your time, make a tea, read the forum, let it work uninterrupted. If it will stuck on some preset for a very long time, make a note of that preset, because you'll probably need to reboot your device and start again from the preset which was stuck. Not something to worry about, it will not break your presets, but just to be on the safe side, make sure to complete step 1 first. I had to restart the process a couple of time IIRC, but everything is good.

You'll need to make a habit of lowering the Out1 block level for every preset you download from other people, like GOT presets, or it will hurt your ears :) But you'll quickly get used to this step.
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just curious. Do you ever reduce your output on the 'INPUT 1" block?
 
dean701 said:
Do you ever reduce your output on the 'INPUT 1" block?
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I have control switch 1 assigned to In1 block level knob. I use it as 10-14dB pad depending on the preset and amp. Along with the guitar volume knob it allows me to turn pretty much any amp into fender clean channel :)
I have a pitch follower assigned to amp's input trim, that why i do it in the input block.

But just this morning I was actually thinking of lowering the level in the input block instead of the output block and comparing what I like better... You beat me to it. That would maybe improve high end response? I dunno.
I will experiment. Cliff mentioned in some thread that "you'll never get same high end response from hot pickups" (I think this is quite accurate citation), so maybe this is the solution?
 
thanks. I always find others have their gain so high on amps. It doesn't really work for me. I've been using the 'input trim' on the amp block forever to compensate. I have the AX3 but it doesn't have the pad options that you detailed above.
Therefore, I was toying with the idea of the output parameter within the INPUT block. My pickups aren't active but the bridge is 18k so it certainly is more than someone with 7k.

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dean701 said:
I have the AX3 but it doesn't have the pad options that you detailed above
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It does, I believe someone posted it in the thread already. It just called differently, allowing you a gradual change of the input pad as opposed to fixed values in the FM3.
I don't believe input block level is a replacement for this, you still need the hardware input setting to set properly for your particular guitar.
 
I have never found it. Only for inputs 3 and 4 on the output. Unless you're speaking of screen shot 3 for input sensitivity. I always have to have mine very low. 7.6 is pushing it for me.
I think the feel and sounds are WAY more dynamic when you give everything room to breathe. I have to blast the strings to get full gain. I don't know how people play so cleanly with the gain and compression busting at the seams. I can't contain the string noise. I'm going to keep trying things. Thanks for the tip with the shift+ right click. I missed that feature announcement.

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AlanAlligator said:
Is using the 'input pad' recommended for particuarly hot pickups? I think I currently have it set at -6dB. Is this right?

Also, should the level of each individual block be set at a particular level? If i want to increase the volume of the sound coming out of my speakers, what is the best place to do this? The level in the amp block or output block or on the physical level control on the FM3 etc?

Thanks again :)
Click to expand...
There's a lot of confusing info in this thread. I advise you to read the manual. Input pad should be set so that when you play really hard on your hottest guitar the red leds on the front panel light up occasionally ("tickle the red"). You won't clip the input when the red leds light up occasionally.

Input pad adjusts the level going into the AD converter to prevent clipping. This adjustment is compensated for after the conversion, so the level going into the grid will remain the same.

There is a handy tool for checking your preset levels. In the output block there is a meter. It is suggested that the level should hover around 0db (the red line), this will again be far from clipping. Generally it is best to use the amp block output level control for adjusting preset levels. The actual output volume going into your speakers is adjusted with the physical knobs on the front.

No matter how hot your pickups are, if you set the levels as explained in the manual you will be fine.
 
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