Help the Fight Against COVID-19

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Actually, that site shows 80,136 new cases so far today, with about 2.5 hours left to go in the day (their reporting day starts at zero hours GMT).

i should clarify , i meant 30 k in the US
thats scary as your northern neighbour
we love you guys but Cliff is and has been right all along
you have got to lockdown the country
every state has to be on the same page or it is going to go from bad to worse fast
 
It's official. As of today state closures is still up to individual governors.
Just heard the governor of Ohio trying to explain why he issued a stay at home but exempted all places of worship.
 
we love you guys but Cliff is and has been right all along
20 million dead in the U.S. alone? Sorry, still not seeing that, unless I misunderstood him at the time, and he meant worldwide. (Not sure if he ever clarified.)

Or do you just mean he was right about stopping public congregating, implementing stay-at-home orders for workers in non-essential fields, etc.?

That, I'll grant.

But we need to keep in mind that even that can be done too soon. (An extreme case: Would it have made sense to shut down Kansas when Hubei was shut down? Obviously not. It only made sense to shut down Kansas when they crossed a certain number of cases, which was months after Hubei did. Any earlier, and you just needlessly kill people indirectly through depression and unemployment.)

Economic damage costs lives, too; it just costs them later and more indirectly. Therefore the management of this crisis is all about sailing straight between Scylla and Charibdys. Don't forget either monster.

To put it even more bluntly: Do you, like me, have a beloved relative who is over-80, diabetic, with asthma? Well, here's some news: Our efforts to "flatten the curve" are not, repeat, NOT, about trying to prevent that person from getting the virus. They are going to get it, and they are probably going to die of it, unless a miracle-treatment or vaccine emerges.

We know this. We've known it since early February at the latest. (Mid-February is when I went to get the hem let out in my charcoal-colored suit, if that's any indication of how much of a sure thing this is. I am expecting funerals, plural, in the coming year.)

What, then, are we trying to do, if we aren't trying to prevent them getting (and dying of) the virus?

We're trying to prevent them dying of it all at once. We're trying to prevent the extra, non-COVID deaths that'll occur if the medical system gets overloaded.

And, yes, we're trying to delay granny's death until a vaccine, maybe, can be produced. Let's hope.

Normally, an 85-year-old diabetic with asthma has, what, a 8-year mean life expectancy? Maybe less? (Any actuarials for insurance companies in the room?) But, now SARS-CoV-2 exists in the world. In 3 years' time, every single human on the face of the earth will have caught it already, one way or another if they don't live their whole lives in quarantine.

But pretend for a moment there's no chance of a vaccine. And pretend you never heard of hydroxychloroquine. And, just to have a number to work with, let's presume a person with those conditions usually lives 8 years in a world without COVID-19.

Well, in a world with COVID-19, it's gonna be shorter. There is no chance that we can prevent that 85-year-old from getting SARS-CoV-2 for that long through general societal shutdown, and we're not even going to try. It would be morally wrong to try to shutdown for that long. We'd kill a half-billion people through poverty. (Sure, we can still try to do it by quarantining only the 85-year-old, but that's a different matter.)

So that means we accept that the life-expectancy of elderly persons with chronic conditions was already cut in half, the moment that the first patient caught a dry cough in Wuhan. We just didn't know about it until later.

Our goal is to flatten the curve, precisely to prevent overburdening the medical system, precisely to prevent needless deaths. Some earlier-than-otherwise deaths are now unavoidable, but deaths in that group will cause yet more deaths if they happen all at once, so we're trying to stretch them out. Can't stop 'em happening; but next year is better than next month.

Sigh. It stinks, but there it is.

I hope you all have dark suits that fit.
 
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I’m astonished this thread wasn’t killed a hundred pages ago. It went off topic, never came back, and hasn’t changed a thing.

Let it die already.
Lots of folks are joining in the discussion. No one's breaking any rules (the politics enforcement seems to be on a post by post basis).
So what's your beef? Why do you care?
It's helping me pass the time while being locked down.
 
Covid has taken the world in so many directions.. there going to write books about it that will be studied in schools. Excellent time to be alive.

Right now many people are on a topic, that they don't understand... blaming the government for not being prepared, or a states responsibility...who buys the ventilators, who orders the PPS... who's going to save your life... our government is set up to be one way, not the other. Any criticism for the US response to Covid... any response to how any govenment handled it.... only points in the direction of need for more government regulation and planning.... that only leads in one direction.... with what message thier delivering... everyone will go bankrupt and out of business, no jobs, no money... and only able to get help from the government.

or you stay positive and you see a recovery in the future, and things go back to normal sooner than it sounds... and in a few years.. things stabilize... new generations emerge. Remember your grandfather who lived through the depression...once he went through that, they never changed once the depression was over... never forgot

Theres two messages ... one that focuses on failures... and one being wishfully positive.

It's easy to look at what went wrong after it went wrong and then state the obvious..
 
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I’m astonished this thread wasn’t killed a hundred pages ago. It went off topic, never came back, and hasn’t changed a thing.

Let it die already.

One of the good things of any healthy community, composed of family, friends, coworkers or owners of certain equipment, is that they have a corner where they can share their concerns and fears (we could also call it "share the shit"). No matter who is right and who is wrong, being listened by others and/or being contradicted is not a bad thing.

p.s.: In case of emergency, ignore BaronVonGrim ;)
 
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We've stopped 3M from exporting N95 masks to Canada & Latin America.

I just read that 3M said they will do everything to source supplies from their warehouses around the world, but they don’t want to stop exporting to Canada and Latin America. They said it would be the wrong thing to do and would only cause those countries to retaliate and not export goods the U.S. needs.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52161032
 
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Wow... Looks like I just saw our "friend" Donnie B get zapped as I was trying to report his rude post.

POOF He is gone...
 
New rules:

Any HINT of political. Locked.
Any personal attacks, or batshit crazy posts. Locked.

Stick to:
VERIFIED news about this epidemic.
Actually talking about the original subject.
Any personal testimonies about how this is playing out across the world (excluding the top 2 subjects.)

R
 
Latest numbers:
il8gn85.jpg
 
Well, okay,

Does the following post pass muster? I hope it does; it's more optimistic, at least:

I think anyone who has had COVID-19 already, and has completely recovered, needs to get back "into the world" as fast as possible, for the sake of preventing deaths through economic misery.

But how?

We need to achieve a phased-in Return To Normalcy that applies exclusively to the people who're already safe from COVID-19. We do NOT want a general, all-hands "cut-loose" (which would put infected people, and infectable people, into the same mix).

I have an idea how to do that. But I'm not sure exactly how it should work, so consider the following a "straw man" proposal:
  • you install an app on your phone; it gives you an account number, and lets you upload a photo and a driver's licence;
  • you go to your doctor and get tested for antibodies and viral-shedding
  • if you test positive for antibodies, you've already had it;
  • if you test negative for shedding 2 weeks in a row, you aren't infectious any more;
  • you give the doctor your account number, she uploads your status to a website associated with the app;
  • you go to work, or a bar, or a theater, and the doorman asks for your health-status QR code;
  • you show your phone to the doorman, and make the QR code come up in the app;
  • the doorman scans the QR code with his phone, and your photo and driver's licence appears, alongside your health status;
  • seeing that you (a.) have already had it, and (b.) are no longer infectious, the doorman lets you in.

For my money, something like THAT is the critical info that's missing from all these press events (whether presidential, gubernatorial, epidemiological, or hairsprayed-to-death-news-anchor).

Now I realize that widespread testing needs to be available first. But the app/website/system need to be being built NOW, if it's to be ready-to-go after we turn the corner on this thing.

I hope someone's working on it, already?

(If there's some reason this idea is unworkable, please let me know. But also remember it's a "straw man" idea: A first-pass at a solution. If there's something I said that's dumb, let's tweak it until it's smarter.)
 
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I think anyone who has had COVID-19 already, and has completely recovered, needs to get back "into the world" as fast as possible,

I haven't seen any confirmation yet about not being able to catch and transmit it twice in a short period of time.
Have you heard otherwise? Source?
 
I haven't seen any confirmation yet about not being able to catch and transmit it twice in a short period of time.
Have you heard otherwise? Source?
I'll have to search for the source. I'll update this post when I find it.

What I recall was an analysis of those who got it once, then tested negative for shedding, and then later tested positive for shedding.

The analysis basically said: "We have seen a small percentage of persons test positive for the virus, then later recover and test negative for shedding, and then a week later test positive for shedding. But we know there are are false-negatives for shedding, and we believe that the small percentage (single digits) that look like reinfection are actually the result of a false negative, followed by a true positive. In all cases, the true positive was later followed by more positives, then negatives, and no more positives, as time went by, indicating an eventual full recovery. Blaming this on a false negative early-on is a better explanation than claiming they were reinfected while still in isolation. That seems especially doubtful, both because of the isolation, but also because antibodies for all the other coronaviruses typically provide at least a year or two of protection, and often several years."

That was the gist of it. It was one of those research-paper websites that you have to click to download the PDF, but I don't remember which one, or what the paper was called.

I'll try to search and see if I can find it.
 
Hey, @Donnie B.,

That Johns Hopkins report doesn't appear to be ordered by date, since it goes Mar 29, Mar 30, ... Feb 1 (!), Feb 3.

Is it ordered by deaths?

Or is "Feb" actually supposed to be "Apr," perhaps?

Oh, and one more thing: Does ANYONE know whether ANYBODY is yet doing random testing of the general population, and has published reports? I would really like to get a sense of by how much the Confirmed Cases is underestimating the Actual Cases. It's this huge gap in our knowledge!
 
That Johns Hopkins report doesn't appear to be ordered by date, since it goes Mar 29, Mar 30, ... Feb 1 (!), Feb 3.

My bad. I created the spreadsheet with the intention of tracking it daily.
Seems I need to take a day off now and then from numbers.
I've tried finding a back dated chart(s) from them but no luck.
 
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