Still finding level meters a bit confusing..

andyp13

Power User
In my Axe none of the scene block meters are in the red, On my Axe the input meter is clipping on Orange when I hit my guitar hard. In the layout screen (the one that shows 1L, 1R & 2L, 2R). The 1 L&R are well into the red constantly hitting as far as they can go. the input is at 5% Im loath to go below this level, the guitar is a 63 Tele with weak pickups, when I plug my strat in, the input meters do clip in the red (is that OK), but the output meters on the layout screen just hit hard right and stay there and thats just with light picking.
If I lower the Output level to take it out of the red the rig is way too quiet and would probably be far to quiet for stage use as to get it out of the red I have to reduce by -15db.
What is the norm here? I’m quite concerned about these excessive levels.
 
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There are no "Orange" LEDs so what does "input meter is clipping on Orange" mean?

The Layout meters are output meters. If they are into the red zone all the time then your output levels are far too high. Turn down the Level in the amp block. Then turn up the Output 1/2 level knob(s) on the front panel to compensate.

If the "rig is too quiet" then turn up the Output 1/2 level knob(s) on the front and/or turn up the Level/Gain/Whatever knob on your power amp/mixer/thingamabob. Also be sure to set the Output Level +4/-10 dB switch in the Setup menu to match the connected gear.

I recommend spending a few minutes with the manual. Just adjusting stuff without understanding what you're doing and then asking for help on the forum is counterproductive.
 
My SOP for leveling...

For instrument input, set it so that your loudest guitar on your loudest pickup configuration with the controls full open. It's fine if your heaviest playing "tickles the red" (i.e. occasional red light activity is okay when you're really hitting the thing, but if the red light is full on when you play light, turn the instrument input down). Set it and forget it, it's just optimizing S/N for the DAC so no need to sweat it too much, just get it to be a best fit for your guitars, and don't fret over it past that.

For output leveling the meters an internal scale of -20 to +10 with the red line at 0, so you generally wanna be hovering around red line, fine if your loudest parts go a little into the red (as there's still probably 6-8db headroom to go from there), and fine if your quieter parts are bellow the red, but in general average volume should be around the red line. If you're constantly in the red, you're not going to have any headroom left and could get into digital clipping when you kick on a boost for a lead so more than likely you wanna bring down the level of the amp block. It's basically same rules as leveling in the AxeFx II, I try and sit around the 0 db internal line, which gives me about -10 to -8 ish db in Logic and I still have room to go from there for the track before it clips out. Level all your preset to match and balance with one another, use the meters as a guide to keep any clipping in check, but most of all trust your years. Again, I generally level presets for my loudest guitar, as if i'm playing a guitar with weaker pickups I generally want less input hitting the front of the amps, if i want a similar oomph to hit the amp on a really dramatically weaker pickup. i'll use a micro boost drive, or a flat filter with a level boost.

All of this is assuming your pickups are broadly similar (I'm a low output passive pickup fan myself), if you have one set of active pickups and one set of passive pickups, I think you may want to do presets or scenes that have the amp block level'd completely differently, as active pickups are really gonna push everything that much harder, but then again you're probably going to want to adjust amp's input drive as well, as what's "edge of breakup" with a passive single is gonna be full on crunch with an active humbucker as you've got such a hotter level hitting the front end...

Once you're presets are good and internally leveled in the AxeFx, just a matter of turning your front panel output knobs and the level knobs on your mixer/monitor/pa/power amp/frfr cab to get a comfortable volume and make sure you're not wrecking input trim on anything downstream.

If I have a preset that occasionally just gets "too loud" with a certain guitar (or any kind of boost pedal run in front of the AxeFx), I'll just bring the level down to taste in the output block at that point, as I'm confident my preset is leveled well throughout.

Page 5 and pages 48-50 of the manual cover leveling of input and output really well, I've found it handy to re-read occasionally just to make sure I've got my understanding of the various level staging in the signal chain correct.
 
FWIW, even on the stock presets, I often find the blue and red meters on the output blocks going way into the red. And I don’t know whether that’s a concern or not. The manual doesn’t seem to have a section on what red means on this meter versus that one, and why the same block viewed in the grid doesn’t have any red at all in the grid view, etc.
 
In my Axe none of the scene block meters are in the red, On my Axe the input meter is clipping on Orange when I hit my guitar hard. In the layout screen (the one that shows 1L, 1R & 2L, 2R). The 1 L&R are well into the red constantly hitting as far as they can go. the input is at 5% Im loath to go below this level, the guitar is a 63 Tele with weak pickups, when I plug my strat in, the input meters do clip in the red (is that OK), but the output meters on the layout screen just hit hard right and stay there and thats just with light picking.
If I lower the Output level to take it out of the red the rig is way too quiet and would probably be far to quiet for stage use as to get it out of the red I have to reduce by -15db.
What is the norm here? I’m quite concerned about these excessive levels.

Kinda in a similar situation. Just a two block route from in1 directly to out3 (nothing in between) to go to outboard pre and the internal meters are well into the red on out3...with the input 1 level all the way down. This doesn't make any sense and maybe I'm missing something but I don't want to lower out3 level and weaken the signal to drive the preamp.
 
Kinda in a similar situation. Just a two block route from in1 directly to out3 (nothing in between) to go to outboard pre and the internal meters are well into the red on out3...with the input 1 level all the way down. This doesn't make any sense and maybe I'm missing something but I don't want to lower out3 level and weaken the signal to drive the preamp.
Level your blocks in the chain. Out3 is meant to be unity gain when full up, so you wanna keep the internal levels from clipping before you reach the out three block, and if you’re well into the red on one of the internal
level meters sounds like you’ve probably got a block or blocks on the grid that are way too hot. Maybe page right to the meters tab and see if you have any blocks that are showing that they’re completely maxed out on output or input levels and start by bringing those down.
 
Level your blocks in the chain. Out3 is meant to be unity gain when full up, so you wanna keep the internal levels from clipping before you reach the out three block, and if you’re well into the red on one of the internal
level meters sounds like you’ve probably got a block or blocks on the grid that are way too hot. Maybe page right to the meters tab and see if you have any blocks that are showing that they’re completely maxed out on output or input levels and start by bringing those down.

Thanks, that's just it though, it's only two blocks, the in1 routed right into out3 with nothing in between and nothing else on the grid and the signal to out3 is too hot. I can't turn anything else down but out3. In1 is at 0%.
 
Thanks, that's just it though, it's only two blocks, the in1 routed right into out3 with nothing in between and nothing else on the grid and the signal to out3 is too hot. I can't turn anything else down but out3. In1 is at 0%.
What specific meter are you looking at that’s turning red?
 
The external meters are fine, not clipping.
Ah, yup, I see what you mean. IN1 wired to an OUT block will jump into the meters on the right hand side of the out block UI to the red when I hit the strings hard (I also hear clipping)...

Now normally I’d be running an Amp block in between which could pad the signal by -12 dB or so (depending on the patch), not sure what the actual science of input direct to output in the III is for intenral dB unity gain/mix law type stuff would be, but I’d probably say drop the level control of the output block -12 dB or so (or put a volume block in between)... there maybe actual science that can help calculate the dB of the signal through the Axe, but I’d personally default to “adjust the levels by ear til i don’t hear any digital clipping”.

I’m admittedly 100% out of my depth on this particular setup though, so I’d leave it to others who are using preamps with their IIIs to answer how they’re gain staging things in reality... might be worth rereading the sections of manual on or around pg 27 (four cable method) and 30 (inserting outboard effects) to see if there’s any tips/notes to be gleaned on leveling in those configs there.
 
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Ah, yup, I see what you mean. IN1 wired to an OUT block will jump into the meters on the right hand side of the out block UI to the red when I hit the strings hard (I also hear clipping)...

Now normally I’d be running an Amp block in between which could pad the signal by -12 dB or so (depending on the patch), not sure what the actual science of input direct to output in the III is for intenral dB unity gain/mix law type stuff would be, but I’d probably say drop the level control of the output block -12 dB or so (or put a volume block in between)... there maybe actual science that can help calculate the dB of the signal through the Axe, but I’d personally default to “adjust the levels by ear til i don’t hear any digital clipping”.

I’m admittedly 100% out of my depth on this particular setup though, so I’d leave it to others who are using preamps with their IIIs to answer how they’re gain staging things in reality... might be worth retreading the sections of manual on or around pg 27 (four cable method) and 30 (inserting outboard effects) to see if there’s any tips/notes to be gleaned on leveling in those configs there.

Right. Exactly. I've tried lowering the level of out3 and naturally the signal loses it's strength, just like rolling the guitar volume down.
Searched through the manual too but can't find anything on the difference of levels and a possible explanation for it.
 
I went to the output block at the end of the chain and turned down the levels from there..... whatever you do though don’t mention the LED colours I got my head bitten off by administrator.
 
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