No Axe-Fx 3 in Australia yet..... What the actual.......

[lqdsnddist]

There are always diminishing returns when technology. Yeah it will cost more than double what a II goes for these days, and no, it’s not going to be twice as good.

Your attitude sounds rather poor though. Just venting frustration I guess, but why do you have to say things like “if they are not even going to update the shit out of the synth block....”

I think if you have that attitude of entitlement, and like FAS owe you something, or isn’t purposely updating things, then I can’t see how your going to be happy with your purchase at any price.

Vote with your wallet. If it offers too little, cost too much, and has taken too long to be available, then don’t buy it. That’s the only way to really send a message.

Enough people don’t buy and they will have to change the price, feature set etc. as it stands they seem to sell as fast as they make them so most folks seem to feel it’s a good purchase.

That said, I side wouldn’t spend that type of money if it didn’t fit MY needs. I’m not dropping nearly 4,000 just because other people are happy with it.

 

[Ant Music]

Your attitude sounds rather poor though. Just venting frustration I guess, but why do you have to say things like “if they are not even going to update the shit out of the synth block....”

I think if you have that attitude of entitlement, and like FAS owe you something, or isn’t purposely updating things, then I can’t see how your going to be happy with your purchase at any price.

Ok, that seemed like a strange thing to say. Clearly I want the synth block updated. The reason I would prefer them to update the Synth block is because it is clunky and archaic as far as synths go. there are a lot of additions that could be made to it but haven't for the longest time. It hasn't been updated since the addition of Tone Matching.I see nothing wrong with having preferences and wishes for the future development of the platform. I'm sure everyone has their own particular wishes. Hence the wish list on the forum.

There is soooo much scope for generating different tones with the synth block and it is something that stands out as ripe for development. Sadly if they are not going to develop it further then I may as well stick with the Axe FX 2 rather than continue to be frustrated in the future.

Clearly if this new Axe Fx is not going to turn out to be what i wold like it to be then of course I wont be buying it, hence my previous post...

 

[∞Fractals]

Why does it cost so much more there? Are their taxes, or is there a currency manipulation i.e. inflation? There must be some main driver for the huge cost increase.

 

[dongzo]

Not many units in Europe either.
I joined the wait list feb 8th and just received this mail...

Dear (almost) Axe-Fx III owner,

The Axe-Fx III has started shipping in Europe a few weeks ago – the waiting list very long though, so it will take a few months before we will get enough units for all. Your Axe-Fx III will not be ready in July or August – we will inform you when we will be able to estimate a more precise shipping date.

Thanks again for all your patience.

/Cry

 

[Rex]

Why does it cost so much more there? Are their taxes, or is there a currency manipulation i.e. inflation? There must be some main driver for the huge cost increase.

This question comes up frequently. "Why does it cost so much more in (insert continent here)?"

First is the exchange rate. The Aussie dollar is currently valued at USD $0.74. (Note that inflation is not the same thing as currency manipulation, and neither of those is the same thing as the exchange rate.) Then there's the fact that it costs an arm and a leg to ship anything to Oz. Then there's taxes and import duties, which add major cost when a shipment crosses national borders. There's also the importer's charge for their services and ongoing support, but that's tiny compared to the other costs.

 

[Strizzwald]

I received an email from Independent Music a couple of days ago saying that there a few III's avaliable since some people had backed out at the last minute. I jumped on the offered and payed there an then, (who knows when the next shipment will come). My wallet isn't talking to me anymore, but I am sure he will come around

 

[Pagzy]

I received an email from Independent Music a couple of days ago saying that there a few III's avaliable since some people had backed out at the last minute. I jumped on the offered and payed there an then, (who knows when the next shipment will come). My wallet isn't talking to me anymore, but I am sure he will come around

Me too man

I was told they will most likely be in the Brisbane warehouse by next week...

 

[Strizzwald]

Got the same news. Very exciting, now just have to sell my Axe Fx 2

 

[Vanilla_Icecream]

This question comes up frequently. "Why does it cost so much more in (insert continent here)?"

First is the exchange rate. The Aussie dollar is currently valued at USD $0.74. (Note that inflation is not the same thing as currency manipulation, and neither of those is the same thing as the exchange rate.) Then there's the fact that it costs an arm and a leg to ship anything to Oz. Then there's taxes and import duties, which add major cost when a shipment crosses national borders. There's also the importer's charge for their services and ongoing support, but that's tiny compared to the other costs.

Which sounds sort of reasonable unless you plug this into a search engine:

"Best price in Sydney for Line6 Helix Rack"

myshopping.com.au/ZM--1284230098_Line_6_Helix_Rack

$2,334 AUD for Helix Rack.

Or $1,571 AUD less than an Axe-FX III.

The Foot Control unit is just $598 AUD (delivery cost not included).

So despite the factors you've mentioned it is still profitable to sell FXIII's most direct and equivalent competitor this much cheaper to the same market. So if we factor in an FC-12 cost to get a full gigging FX-III rig this will then total to about $2,000 AUD more than the equivalent competitor's gig-ready system.

So the FXIII rig is obviously very over-priced within Australia. Thus rationalising the price doesn't make much sense, as the L6 product is subject to the same competitive cost factors.

If people are OK with paying premium prices for the latest gear, fine. I have zero problem with that. But let's not pretend the initial price isn't flatout scalping the early-adopter. In the end the price of anything is set by what the market will pay for it. But I would be concerned if my all-up gigging rig product was 60% higher in price than my competitor's product, which is more or less the very same thing. For example if you asked the average Aussie lead guitarist to rationalise these prices they'll in almost all cases elect to save $2,000 AUD.

Consequently, I'd take a much more realistic look into why FX III is selling for $3,905 AUD, and publish an old-school market 'Recommended Retail Price', that is competitive and actually able to be rationalised by the potential buyers, given the above.

 

[Rex]

Which sounds sort of reasonable unless you plug this into a search engine:

"Best price in Sydney for Line6 Helix Rack"

myshopping.com.au/ZM--1284230098_Line_6_Helix_Rack

$2,334 AUD for Helix Rack.

Or $1,571 AUD less than an Axe-FX III.

In the US, the Helix rack costs 56% as much as the Axe-Fx III. In Australia, it costs 59% as much. That's wicked close. In both countries, you have the option of paying $1000 extra to jump the wait list.

By the way, if you think the Helix is a direct competitor to the Axe-Fx III, you need to audition both of them side by side. There's a reason for the price disparity, and for the fact that the price of new Fractal gear stays pretty much constant for years.

...I would be concerned if my all-up gigging rig product was 60% higher in price than my competitor's product, which is more or less the very same thing.

It's not.

 

[Vanilla_Icecream]

Oh dear, that's called denial, not counterpoint.

 

[Ole]

ATM there are no competitors to the Axe-Fx 3, so if you think it is overpriced, scale down and get something ells. Nothing wrong with that.
This is like saying Suhr is overpriced because I can get a Mex Fender way cheaper...

 

[pauly]

Hi vanilla,
I disagree. The helix is cheaper because it should be, - it sounds nowhere near as good, and is manufactured by a company that will not update in a timely fashion. It will also have a much lower resell value and be obsolete quicker (based on history).
I happily pay more for the axe fx because in the years I've been using fractal products I have been listened to, appreciated, able to have input on development, received constant relevant and improving updates, and I've got the best hardware you can buy. I should also mention the support offered by both fractal and the local distributor - it's exceptional - and it's for a low volume unit, in a low volume country. Someone has to pay for all that, and that's us.

In saying that, I don't begrudge you preferring the helix at all. Enjoy!

Thanks
Pauly

Which sounds sort of reasonable unless you plug this into a search engine:

"Best price in Sydney for Line6 Helix Rack"

myshopping.com.au/ZM--1284230098_Line_6_Helix_Rack

$2,334 AUD for Helix Rack.

Or $1,571 AUD less than an Axe-FX III.

The Foot Control unit is just $598 AUD (delivery cost not included).

So despite the factors you've mentioned it is still profitable to sell FXIII's most direct and equivalent competitor this much cheaper to the same market. So if we factor in an FC-12 cost to get a full gigging FX-III rig this will then total to about $2,000 AUD more than the equivalent competitor's gig-ready system.

So the FXIII rig is obviously very over-priced within Australia. Thus rationalising the price doesn't make much sense, as the L6 product is subject to the same competitive cost factors.

If people are OK with paying premium prices for the latest gear, fine. I have zero problem with that. But let's not pretend the initial price isn't flatout scalping the early-adopter. In the end the price of anything is set by what the market will pay for it. But I would be concerned if my all-up gigging rig product was 60% higher in price than my competitor's product, which is more or less the very same thing. For example if you asked the average Aussie lead guitarist to rationalise these prices they'll in almost all cases elect to save $2,000 AUD.

Consequently, I'd take a much more realistic look into why FX III is selling for $3,905 AUD, and publish an old-school market 'Recommended Retail Price', that is competitive and actually able to be rationalised by the potential buyers, given the above.

 

[Anthony76]

Buy, don't buy, it is always the consumers choice.

 

[Rex]

Oh dear, that's called denial, not counterpoint.

Actually, it's counterpoint — with the evidence and reasoning laid out. If you think the Helix is equivalent to the Axe III, buy a Helix and be happy. You'll save some coin.

 

[yek]

Actually, it's counterpoint — with the evidence and reasoning laid out.

Absolutely!

 

[Vanilla_Icecream]

In the US, the Helix rack costs 56% as much as the Axe-Fx III. In Australia, it costs 59% as much. That's wicked close. In both countries, you have the option of paying $1000 extra to jump the wait list.

By the way, if you think the Helix is a direct competitor to the Axe-Fx III, you need to audition both of them side by side. There's a reason for the price disparity, and for the fact that the price of new Fractal gear stays pretty much constant for years.



It's not.

To clarify,

Sound is subjective, your or my opinion about what sounds better can not be taken seriously, as commentary on this topic. Nor am I interested in championing one unit over the other, or a preference, I'm only discussing the respective prices.

My comments are accurate and backed by numbers. And it's clear to any objective disinterested observer or listener that FXIII and Helix are more or less the very same thing, and do the same task. It is also visibly clear that FAS are catching-up to where Helix already reached with regard to ease of interface use, and easy editing. Silly to deny that.

As for sound, I've used only racked multi-effects units live since 1991. I can get the sounds I want out of anything to hand, so claiming something is better is ... meh ... dreamin.

As pointed out further up this page by another person, it's a diminishing returns situation, with each new system, as the practical sound capability and difference in practice is small to negligible. But the FX III being 60% more expensive than its direct MARKET competitor, the Helix Rack, is correct within the practical terms I described (i.e. a full gig-ready rig). Actually the difference is higher, the FX III is more than 60% more expensive than Helix.

Helix full rig: $2,334 + $598 = $2,932 AUD

Verses

FX III full rig: $3,905 + $1,200 = $5,105 AUD

So a full Helix rig is cheaper by this much:

$5,105 - $2,932 = $2,173 AUD

In other words, the very comparable Helix full-rig system is going to be close to $2,173 cheaper, for the Aussie lead guitarist to put it on stage (i.e. it's even cheaper than the $2,000 AUD which I roughly guessed above).

And that $2,173 cheaper is equal to 74.1% of the all-up full-rig cost of the Helix Rack's gig-ready system.

Hmmm ... thus the all-up gig-ready cost of the FX III system is not 60% more expensive, it's actually about 74% more expensive than a full Helix gig-rig.

In other words, an Australian buyer could buy the full gig-ready Helix Rack and its Foot Controller, PLUS a SECOND Helix Rack, for almost the same money, as the cost of a single full gig-ready FX III rig! ... i.e.

$2,334 + $2,334 + $598 = $5,266 AUD

(just $151 difference!)

Note: The FC-12 is subject to the same exchange rate, tax and entry duties, retail, delivey, etc., as the FX III unit is, so adding $1,200 AUD for an FC-12 is probably underestimating its additional costs---it may be more like $1,300 AUD.


And as for FX III having "no competition". lol Look, I'm not referring to subjective audio ranking here (which is more or less almost irrelevant and imaginary, belief-based), I'm only referring to the MARKET competition to attract buyers.

And if you think the FX III won't be competing in the same bid-price market place, to attract to money of the same customer cohort, who want to do the same sorts of things, with either unit, then sorry, you are totally kidding yourself, Helix is in fact FX III's direct market, price, function and format competitor, for the same bag of available money to be spent.

This is all that I mean by "denial", Rex, nothing more btw.

Untill FX III drops to within about $500 of Helix Rack, don't expect many of the available buyer-cohort, to buy the FX III. FX III simply doesn't offer a pro guitarist anything worth paying $2,173 more for, to want to fork out to buy it. But I for one might spend $500, or so, above the best price for a Helix, to buy this new FX III unit.

Consequently, FX III will need to be around $2,900 AUD, or less, to be about where the FX III needs to be just to begin to become competitive, to the buyer's dollars. Or about $1,000 less than priced, currently.

So, I'll wait to see if it becomes market competitive at about that price level before I consider it for purchase. However, if Helix II emerges first, I may never buy an FX III. But that's just my take on the price level outcome.

Have fun, Pauly, Rex, others.

 

[Rex]

Sound is subjective...

True.

...I'm only discussing the respective prices.

Indeed, if price is your only criterion, go with the least expensive option.

And it's clear to any objective disinterested observer or listener that FXIII and Helix are more or less the very same thing, and do the same task.

It’s equaly clear to a disinterested observer that a Chevrolet Impala and a Mercedes-Benz S-Class are more or less the very same thing and do the same task. Yet they are not in direct competition, and there is a large and sustainable price difference between them.

It is also visibly clear that FAS are catching-up to where Helix already reached with regard to ease of interface use, and easy editing. Silly to deny that.

It’s equally silly to think that I did.

As for sound, I've used only racked multi-effects units live since 1991. I can get the sounds I want out of anything to hand, so claiming something is better is ... meh ... dreamin.

In your opinion, which is no more valid than mine.

Consequently, FX III will need to be around $2,900 AUD, or less, to be about where the FX III needs to be just to begin to become competitive, to the buyer's dollars. Or about $1,000 less than priced, currently.

This seems to be the gist of your argument: that the Axe-Fx III can’t compete because its price is too high. Yet this level of price difference has existed for ten years, during which Fractal models have frequently been sold out. Check back in a couple of years, and see whether they’ve managed to continue competing.


Life is short. Buy what you want. But my opinion is no more “denial” than yours.

 

[∞Fractals]

If the price was too high, demand would be little to zero.

I’ve yet to see any evidence that this is the case at this moment in time.

 

[GLiDE BPM]

But what you like best that you can afford.
I have both... Have owned most of the high end modelers.

Have Helix, Helix LT, and now Axe FX III. Axe 3 will be gigged as soon as I get my presets built and can obtain an FC-12. Helix will then most likely be used only for church gigs and around the house some, and as my backup rig.

My custom tube amps will probably continue to collect dust!

Enjoy, folks!